Is it time for LeKevin or Green to go?

[mgteich]

We've been having 24-25 positions on defense: 6 DL, 8 LB, 9 DB and 1-2 Sters. The question is whether we should keep the extra defensive lineman? Considerations:

A) Seymour might be gone, extended or franchised in 2010.

B) Wilfork could be gone, extended or franchised in 2010.

C) Green is likely in his last year as a patriot, and we still don't know about his roster bonus. If that bonus can be avoided, it will be, as it was with Vrabel.

D) LeKevin is a backup. We already have two of these in Wright and Brace.

E) The roster spot might help more if used for a special teamer or a player who can fill several roles. Ventrone and Tank Williams come to mind.

BOTTOM LINE
As of now, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to choose between Green and LeKevin?

 

[ALP]

if i remember correctly, in some packages late last year, when lekevin was in, he was getting amazing pressure on the QB, and was actually the only one to be doing so....

i would like to see how far we can take that ability....in all honesty, i would have given him green's spot, and it would have been a heck of a lot cheaper

 

[WaterfallJumper]

What if we trade Green + one of our offensive lineman (a suddenly crowded position) to Oakland for Burgess? I think that's win-win for both teams, provided the Raiders are willing to extend Green and lower his cap hit. I like Green a lot, especially because of his work in the community, but his production in no way justifies his price. He might be the most expensive backup in the league. LeKevin is a more than adequate replacement, at a vastly reduced price.

 

[Pats726]

If they like what Green is doing..they could extend..THAT is a real possibility...BUT..maybe they wish to trade or let go...a few options.. I agree there are possibilities of both going..OR maybe one stepping up and taking Sey's position...or in the mix with someone like Richard stepping up in 10. Many possibilities...and I agree..there is some extra players on the O line...that could be added in in a trade.

 

[spacecrime]

We have Wilfork, Wright, Smith and Brace as NTs. We need two of of them for sure, maybe three.

We have Seymour, Warren and Green as DEs, plus the NTs can fill in sometimes.

Green is better than Smith at DE, and there needs to be a thrid DE in case Seymour or Warren get hurt. We could save 2 mil by cutting or trading Green. If we coukld improve on him for $2 mil, fine, but I doubt it.

I like 6 DL at this point in time:
Seymour
Warren
Green
Wilfork
Brace
Wright

 

[mgteich]

You consider Wright primarily a backup NT. I'm not sure that Belichick agrees or he wouldn't have drafted Brace.

If Belichick does not consider Smith a DE, then he is simply gone. Wilfork, Wright and Brace are more than enough inside.

There is little point trying to find a replacement for Green in free agency. We can do that next year, if Green isn't extended.

We have Wilfork, Wright, Smith and Brace as NTs. We need two of of them for sure, maybe three.

We have Seymour, Warren and Green as DEs, plus the NTs can fill in sometimes.

Green is better than Smith at DE, and there needs to be a thrid DE in case Seymour or Warren get hurt. We could save 2 mil by cutting or trading Green. If we coukld improve on him for $2 mil, fine, but I doubt it.

I like 6 DL at this point in time:
Seymour
Warren
Green
Wilfork
Brace
Wright

 

[PatsChamp88]

You consider Wright primarily a backup NT. I'm not sure that Belichick agrees or he wouldn't have drafted Brace.

Well then why did we resigned Mike Wright to a four-year, $7.5 million contract if he is not considered a primary backup at DE and NT...or are you saying that he can be starter material? Maybe its just me but I don't think Wilfork will be around after this season

 

[ivanfears]

We've been having 24-25 positions on defense: 6 DL, 8 LB, 9 DB and 1-2 Sters. The question is whether we should keep the extra defensive lineman? Considerations:

A) Seymour might be gone, extended or franchised in 2010.

B) Wilfork could be gone, extended or franchised in 2010.

C) Green is likely in his last year as a patriot, and we still don't know about his roster bonus. If that bonus can be avoided, it will be, as it was with Vrabel.

D) LeKevin is a backup. We already have two of these in Wright and Brace.

E) The roster spot might help more if used for a special teamer or a player who can fill several roles. Ventrone and Tank Williams come to mind.

BOTTOM LINE
As of now, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to choose between Green and LeKevin?

you can never have enough big men the extra bodies take care of themselves with injuries stop trying to take a strength and try to make it a weakness give up for a few weeks man

 

[spacecrime]

You consider Wright primarily a backup NT. I'm not sure that Belichick agrees or he wouldn't have drafted Brace.

If Belichick does not consider Smith a DE, then he is simply gone. Wilfork, Wright and Brace are more than enough inside.

There is little point trying to find a replacement for Green in free agency. We can do that next year, if Green isn't extended.

That is pretty much what I said in different words except for the first sentence which sounds like you are saying that BB doesn't draft positions for which he has a backup.

I do considered Wilfork and Wright as NTs, though both sometimes play DE in certain situations. Ditto Smith. Brace may also be groomed to play DE once in a while.

I think that LeKevin is the odd man out unless there is an injury in tc, or BB carries 7 DLinesmen.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Where is Keegs??

 

[Jimke]

If Pryor or Richard showed some promise, I could see keeping them

over Green or LeKevin Smith because they would be available for

4 years.

 

[supafly]

What if we trade Green + one of our offensive lineman (a suddenly crowded position) to Oakland for Burgess? I think that's win-win for both teams, provided the Raiders are willing to extend Green and lower his cap hit. I like Green a lot, especially because of his work in the community, but his production in no way justifies his price. He might be the most expensive backup in the league. LeKevin is a more than adequate replacement, at a vastly reduced price.

I'd have to disagree here, as there's no way Smith backs up as well as Green if someone goes down. Plus, isn't Green still used for many packages, almost making him a little more value still than a regular backup?

As of usa today's salary database per Miguel:

Green made 2 million base salary in 08, Wright (backup too) made 1.5 base, so I don't think Green's demands are as ridiculous as you infer.

I think the point is pretty much what Spacecrime stated--if we can save 2 million by letting Green go (assuming bonus hasn't already been paid) then we'd still have to replace him at approx. half the cost, making the total savings of 1 million or less. Is Green's production, and beneficial replacement worth saving 1 million dollars? I don't personally think so.

It may look appealing to let Green go on paper, due to the bonus--but wait until someone goes down in a crucial situation, and your mind changes instantly. Green has the experience to take over in a split second, without missing a beat. IMO, he's on a whole other plane than LeKevin Smith right now, in value to the team (no knock on Smith)

 

[Deus Irae]

Get rid of Smith? Man, y'all are just trying to make Keegs cry .

 

[Pats726]

If Pryor or Richard showed some promise, I could see keeping them

over Green or LeKevin Smith because they would be available for

4 years.

I am not sure either really replaces Green...as a quick rushing lineman...Pryor would be more a nose tackle...and more so in teh WIlfork/Brace sense than one quick...as Wright?? Richard could be more a DE..so he could be more like LSmith...

 

[Dragda]

if i remember correctly, in some packages late last year, when lekevin was in, he was getting amazing pressure on the QB, and was actually the only one to be doing so....

i would like to see how far we can take that ability....in all honesty, i would have given him green's spot, and it would have been a heck of a lot cheaper

Green's play has dropped off for some reason. Maybe he's playing hurt. Maybe he just hit a wall and is now already in decline. LeKevin has some upside and has shown that he can be a role player in this league.

 

[Pats726]

Green's play has dropped off for some reason. Maybe he's playing hurt. Maybe he just hit a wall and is now already in decline. LeKevin has some upside and has shown that he can be a role player in this league.

Different roles...I don't see one replacing the other...Smith is a bit shorter and heavier...I think it will be up to the fFO to either extend Green..if they think he can be effective as he was in the past...OR cut/trade him if they think his cap number is too high..OR if he will not extend... OR maybe they do not think his number is a problem.... I do think with a number of players up, they may look forward to younger players..

 

[supafly]

Regardless of one's opinion on who should be on the block, it'll be interesting to keep an eye on the outcome. I think the obvious key is whether or not the bonus has been paid yet to Green. I think I remember Miguel emailing Green's agent, but to no response so far.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis except for Brace at DE, even occasionally. Brace would be the slowest DE in the league.

That is pretty much what I said in different words except for the first sentence which sounds like you are saying that BB doesn't draft positions for which he has a backup.

I do considered Wilfork and Wright as NTs, though both sometimes play DE in certain situations. Ditto Smith. Brace may also be groomed to play DE once in a while.

I think that LeKevin is the odd man out unless there is an injury in tc, or BB carries 7 DLinesmen.

 

[DaBruinz]

We have Wilfork, Wright, Smith and Brace as NTs. We need two of of them for sure, maybe three. Wright and Smith are tweeners who haven't been successful at the NT in the past couple of seasons.

We have Seymour, Warren and Green as DEs, plus the NTs can fill in sometimes. Smith and Wright are better DEs than they are NTs

Green is better than Smith at DE, and there needs to be a thrid DE in case Seymour or Warren get hurt. We could save 2 mil by cutting or trading Green. If we coukld improve on him for $2 mil, fine, but I doubt it.
I don't belive that Green is better than Smith any longer.


I like 6 DL at this point in time:
Seymour
Warren
Green
Wilfork
Brace
Wright

I like Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Brace, Wright, and one of Pryor or Richard.

 

[unoriginal]

I don't get all the Pats games but when I've noticed Le Kevin Smith doing good things he as always played as a DE, usually the left end. I haven't seen him inside recently unless its been some weird 2-down-lineman rush package stuff where he is technically a defensive tackle.

I think the Pats even stopped working him in at nose in preseason last year and just used Rashad Moore. I don't see his future being at NT at all.