Is it possible we see another shocking WR trade by Oct 30th?

[mgteich]

We once had this discussion about Cassell.

 

[supafly]

i figured before the season that the pats might try to trade welker, since he almost definitely wont be with them next year, and he could bring in a good return.

i dont think that the limited playing time correlates to that at all (youd want to play him more, to showcase).


however, if theyre going to make a 'big' trade...welker would be the guy.

Considering that we'd probably get a 3rd as a comp pick in 2014 if he leaves in FA in February next year, I'm not sure how much better they'd do by trading him outright after another franchise tag is applied in February.

I think they could get a 2nd right now from the right team (not sure if there is one who would offer that), but unless Welker has another great year, I doubt they'd be able to get that in February of next year.

They are leaning more towards speading the ball around with the TE's and the addition of Llyod, the decision to stay with Edelman more, and the return of Deion Branch.

Not only that, but they will also showcase the screen passes more this year, as last year was the only year in 5 seasons where they didn't have at least 50-55 screen passes (they had something in the low 30's, so there's a big difference).

Then you also have what seems to be a dedication to utilizing Ridley and the running game more too.

All of these factors add up to lessened numbers from Welker this year, and that isn't even bringing up the fact that he will be one more year older when free agency rolls around, as opposed to what they could've gotten for him this year coming off of a personal best, huge season.

 

[supafly]

We once had this discussion about Cassell.

Yeah, when everyone claimed that 'we'd surely get at LEAST a 1st, if not a 1st and 3rd...'

And that was at a position that demands a higher trade compensation value, which is a franchise QB.

And they even threw in Mike Vrabel to boot (which in fairness, may have been somewhat of a good natured gift).

The bottom line is that Cassel was much younger, and at a position that dictates a higher trade value than a season where Wes Welker will have a dropoff in numbers, be closer to 32 years old, is a slot receiver, and also had a very serious ACL/MCL injury and surgery.

I have all the respect in the world for those who see Welker as a 1st round trade compensation, but I couldn't be further from agreeing with them.

The difference may be a 2nd + a late rounder now vs. "just a 2nd" in February, but even that is being extremely kind in my opinion. Any talk of a 1st rounder now or then is just not going to happen.

 

[nekromantique]

Considering that we'd probably get a 3rd as a comp pick in 2014 if he leaves in FA in February next year, I'm not sure how much better they'd do by trading him outright after another franchise tag is applied in February.

I think they could get a 2nd right now from the right team (not sure if there is one who would offer that), but unless Welker has another great year, I doubt they'd be able to get that in February of next year.

They are leaning more towards speading the ball around with the TE's and the addition of Llyod, the decision to stay with Edelman more, and the return of Deion Branch.

Not only that, but they will also showcase the screen passes more this year, as last year was the only year in 5 seasons where they didn't have at least 50-55 screen passes (they had something in the low 30's, so there's a big difference).

Then you also have what seems to be a dedication to utilizing Ridley and the running game more too.

All of these factors add up to lessened numbers from Welker this year, and that isn't even bringing up the fact that he will be one more year older when free agency rolls around, as opposed to what they could've gotten for him this year coming off of a personal best, huge season.

well that was early in the season (or rather preseason), when they were stacking up on receivers, and tightends.

i dont think playing time now has any correlation with any trade rumors...just a result of a more balanced offense.

 

[supafly]

well that was early in the season (or rather preseason), when they were stacking up on receivers, and tightends.

i dont think playing time now has any correlation with any trade rumors...just a result of a more balanced offense.

I certainly agree with your second statement 100%, but I am also strongly sticking with my first thought that the reliance on the more physical TE/running game, with focuses on spreading the ball around between the following:

--Gronk 90 catches

--Hernandez 79 catches, poised to have an even bigger year pre-injury

--the addition of more of a field stretcher in Llyod, who led the NFL in reception yds in 2010

--Welker and his 125 catches as our slot guy

--the great camp and committment to using Edelman more

--the re-addition of Branch, who was here in the first place as depth

--the fact that we will see much more use of the screen game than last yr

--the committment to the running game being more balanced



Besides the removal of Gaffney (injured and not really deemed needed at the time), I don't see any difference to what they stacked with in preseason.

It still all leads to the thought that Wes Welker will not be having the same numbers as he did last year, which will = a drop in his production and potential trade value (not to mention his addition of another yr in age)

 

[Wax Frog]

Are you telling PA to go take a Powter?

 

[nekromantique]

Besides the removal of Gaffney (injured and not really deemed needed at the time), I don't see any difference to what they stacked with in preseason.

It still all leads to the thought that Wes Welker will not be having the same numbers as he did last year, which will = a drop in his production and potential trade value (not to mention his addition of another yr in age)

thats actually the point. his production wouldnt be as required and thus could have been considered more expendable to the pats, yet still fairly valuable to another team. when they slimmed the wr core back to virtually what it was before, that changed.

 

[Aßßynormal]

If he was traded, we'd need to bring Gaffney back. For some reason, that seems to be possible ....... probably the injury. Salas made it to the PS as well.

The most likely stop is KC. There are other teams that could be interested, for short money though. I go back and forth with this ...... if we do trade him, I'd rather have a player now then later. Another thing is that we'd be able to carry over his cap savings to next year. Gutsy move with AHern out.

IBBIT (and this says it all).

 

[Joker]

shocking???...October 30th????...

 

[Aßßynormal]

Also, aside from Madame Frankenstein (shteen not stein), isn't Dwayne Bowe also franchised? I'd do that swap in a heartbeat.

 

[Wilfork#75]

None of us know what the real situation is with Wes, but if the team does genuinely believe they are better off with Edelman ahead of Welker, than I think you certainly have to look at a trade. I'm not saying I want to trade him or the situation will mean we do trade him, but from everything we know the Patriots are suppose to be about, you don't pay a backup $9mil a year. Hopefully this is just some minor punishment thing for an incident we know nothing about and everything can get back to normal next week. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Welker traded in the next few weeks. If someone offered a 2nd and 4th I would certainly have to look at it.

Yeah, when everyone claimed that 'we'd surely get at LEAST a 1st, if not a 1st and 3rd...'

To be fair the Cassell deal was forced early by cap pressure brought about by the Franchise Tag. We didn't have time to shop him around too much because we needed the cap space to make other moves. But I think you are right, at best we would get a 2nd + later pick. Since the deadline passed for an extension, I've been in favor or Welker playing out the year than a tag and trade next season for a 3rd and 4th (same compensation ans Anquan Boldin).

 

[Ivan]

You cannot speculate about Welker here at patsfans. It's breaking one of the golden, unwritten rules.

.

You mean other than the 3-4 threads that are started to do just that every day here?



Those who want to trade Welker, and that does not mean you, are frigging idiots. Get a 2nd and kiss the Super Bowl goodbye, f.cking geniuses. Simply unbelievable that anyone who seriously wants another Lombardi would even consider this.

 

[supafly]

Those who want to trade Welker, and that does not mean you, are frigging idiots.

For what it's worth, I never wanted to trade him. I know you aren't calling me out personally, but I do want to throw that out there.

The 'unwritten, golden rule' was in response to a thread that I started a few weeks ago where I looked at the pros/cons of doing so, but was sure to point out at least a dozen times that I hoped he'd stay when the season was done.

There were a couple/few who saw it as such an incredibly insulting thread, but it's funny that it's all we've heard about ever since, and see daily threads about it that are just somehow accepted now. It's funny what 3 weeks do to some.

 

[supafly]

None of us know what the real situation is with Wes, but if the team does genuinely believe they are better off with Edelman ahead of Welker, than I think you certainly have to look at a trade. I'm not saying I want to trade him or the situation will mean we do trade him, but from everything we know the Patriots are suppose to be about, you don't pay a backup $9mil a year. Hopefully this is just some minor punishment thing for an incident we know nothing about and everything can get back to normal next week. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Welker traded in the next few weeks. If someone offered a 2nd and 4th I would certainly have to look at it.



To be fair the Cassell deal was forced early by cap pressure brought about by the Franchise Tag. We didn't have time to shop him around too much because we needed the cap space to make other moves. But I think you are right, at best we would get a 2nd + later pick. Since the deadline passed for an extension, I've been in favor or Welker playing out the year than a tag and trade next season for a 3rd and 4th (same compensation ans Anquan Boldin).

I'm in favor of him playing the yr out too. At worst we get about a 3rd/4th in a comp pick for 2014, at best we get to keep him for another couple yrs.

I have a feeling that Belichick has explored the idea behind closed doors, and that if someone came calling with an offer for a 2nd + 4th, he would possibly have to think a bit harder.

Sadly, there are so many behind the scenes questions that we have where we'll just never know the truth to, but how great would it be to get a behind the scenes interview with Belichick that was actually candid and truthful?

 

[TyronePoole]

fwiw I think this Edelman thing is a complete farce, he's never been productive in an above average way on the field and Welker is clearly a superior receiver in every way. I don't know what the reason is for reducing Welker's role, and i'm not saying it's illegitimate, but I'm not buying the "gameplanning" nonsense unless McDaniels is the worst gameplanner in the history of football. Unless there's a compelling reason then this team is better off with Welker playing every snap imo.

That being said, if the status quo continues and the team is hell bent on "phasing out" or whatever term you want to use with Welker, then trading him is a better option than having him in his current role. I don't see why any team would give up much for him though.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Let's see...if deja vu came to fruition as in the Randy Moss trade in 2010 when we faced him in week 8 after cutting him in week 6 and we cut Wes in week 6 and faced his new team 2 weeks later in week 8,i believe that would make it a trade with the Rams.

Funny thing is,the Rams are seriously lacking wideout talent right now

 

[supafly]

fwiw I think this Edelman thing is a complete farce, he's never been productive in an above average way on the field and Welker is clearly a superior receiver in every way. I don't know what the reason is for reducing Welker's role, and i'm not saying it's illegitimate, but I'm not buying the "gameplanning" nonsense unless McDaniels is the worst gameplanner in the history of football. Unless there's a compelling reason then this team is better off with Welker playing every snap imo.

That being said, if the status quo continues and the team is hell bent on "phasing out" or whatever term you want to use with Welker, then trading him is a better option than having him in his current role. I don't see why any team would give up much for him though.

The thing that strikes me as one of the oddest issues in the whole ordeal is that even IF they are 'phasing out' Welker--which I do not believe, they still aren't necessarily doing all that much to get Edelman involved in the gameplan or utilize his strengths very much, with the exception of the 4th quarter on Sunday.

I think that Edelman can actually replace SOME of Welker's production in the slot, as we have seen when he has been given the chance. However, I don't think he's going to be able to suddenly run all kind of various routes and be productive. I think they are going to have to allow him to play the role that he looked okay at in the limited sample that we had seen in the past, and that doesn't seem to be happening, as I said--with the exception of the 4th quarter on Sunday when they got him the ball 4 times.

I can't see any other reasonable explanation other than Welker took a big hit in the Tampa joint practice, and they were taking it easy with him for about a month or so coming back. Nothing else really makes much sense. I think we see more of the 'old' Welker starting this week again.

 

[supafly]

Let's see...if deja vu came to fruition as in the Randy Moss trade in 2010 when we faced him in week 8 after cutting him in week 6 and we cut Wes in week 6 and faced his new team 2 weeks later in week 8,i believe that would make it a trade with the Rams.

Funny thing is,the Rams are seriously lacking wideout talent right now

Actually though I see 2 things wrong with your theory:

1. They actually cut Moss earlier than week 6 IIRC. It was right around the end of week 3 or 4, but I could be wrong.

2. The Rams are plenty happy with Danny Amendola in the slot, as he caught 15 passes on Sunday and has 20 so far on the year. I believe he's leading the NFL in receptions.

 

[TyronePoole]

Let's see...if deja vu came to fruition as in the Randy Moss trade in 2010 when we faced him in week 8 after cutting him in week 6 and we cut Wes in week 6 and faced his new team 2 weeks later in week 8,i believe that would make it a trade with the Rams.

Funny thing is,the Rams are seriously lacking wideout talent right now

They have Amendola who imo is one of the best slot receivers in the game right now though.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Actually though I see 2 things wrong with your theory:

1. They actually cut Moss earlier than week 6 IIRC. It was right around the end of week 3 or 4, but I could be wrong.

2. The Rams are plenty happy with Danny Amendola in the slot, as he caught 15 passes on Sunday and has 20 so far on the year.

Yeah,I know.....just shedding some light on a rough and sensitive subject in Pats land

Imagine him on the Lions with Johnson