Is it possible we see another shocking WR trade by Oct 30th?

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

This is funny on the very topic....

Conspiracies don't bother Belichick...But how 'bout an explanation?

 

[Triumph]

Welker is under the franchise tag and cannot renegotiate a long-term contract with any team in the NFL. The Patriots could only trade him to a team that wants him for the rest of this year only. The deal would be stupid for both teams- the Pats would probably get a late round draft pick and the trade partner would get a player for 10 games that doesn't even know their offense.

The Chiefs.

Brian Dabol is OC and KC is under the cap by tens of millions. KC is about the go 0 - 3 vs the Saints this Sunday and their offense has been stagnant. Then they play a hot SD Chargers and then the Ravens. 0 - 5 looks like a real possibility. Welker would help Cassel immediately in the short passing game.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How do you figure "no one saw it" after Randy Moss had that melt down during a press conference? Didn't everyone see it coming? I know I did and those discussions at the time expected immediate action.

Some of us saw it, and we got the same warm treatment as anyone who sees a potential problem with what is going on with Welker... Although I think the Hernandez injury probably eliminated that potential.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Chiefs.

Brian Dabol is OC and KC is under the cap by tens of millions. KC is about the go 0 - 3 vs the Saints this Sunday and their offense has been stagnant. Then they play a hot SD Chargers and then the Ravens. 0 - 5 looks like a real possibility. Welker would help Cassel immediately in the short passing game.

Pioli is under such fire right now for every former NEP acquisition he ever negotiated to KC I'm not sure he would survive dipping in that well again no matter how much sense it might make.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How do you figure "no one saw it" after Randy Moss had that melt down during a press conference? Didn't everyone see it coming? I know I did and those discussions at the time expected immediate action.

Then you must have been the wisest member in here....MOST never saw it coming ....

Read the fun..

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/676514-rumor-moss-vikings.html

 

[everlong]

Who did we have in 2010 for the long ball when Moss was suddenly gone?

My point is never say never...when they knew Seymour wasn't going to return the next year they did a trade...when Moss was known not to return they did a trade.

I don't know how Welker would be any different if they decided to go that route.

If Welker is not out there for 60 or more snaps against a top conference team this sunday night with no Hernandez and less depth,it will further implore the possibilities into October.

They pulled off the Branch trade so quickly they had to know they had that in their back pocket. I never said never, I said I can't see it given the depth.. The difference between Moss and Welker is production. Moss wasn't producing and Welker still is at a high level.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

They pulled off the Branch trade so quickly they had to know they had that in their back pocket. I never said never, I said I can't see it given the depth.. The difference between Moss and Welker is production. Moss wasn't producing and Welker still is at a high level.

At the time,even though Moss was doing nothing,the team was without a wideout for the long ball for the first time in 3 years and still got rid of him,It was a shock.

As far as Welker playing at a high level.....well thats true,but High Level players coming off a 1,500 yard season that are suddenly benched in favor of a bonafide 4th WR without reason means there is something very wrong......

If anyone believes Brady's crap story about keeping guys fresh so they can go deep into the season,well I have some swampland in Pa to sell to you.

This situation can be one of 300 theories....and only one of them 'probably' will be right.

 

[everlong]

At the time,even though Moss was doing nothing,the team was without a wideout for the long ball for the first time in 3 years,It was a shock.

As far as Welker playing at a high level.....well thats true,but High Level players coming off a 1,500 yard season that are suddenly benched in favor of a bonafide 4th WR without reason means there is something very wrong......

If anyone believes Brady's crap story about keeping guys fresh so they can go deep into the season,well I have some swampland in Pa to sell to you.

This situation can be one of 300 theories....and only one of them 'probably' will be right.

It was a shock.

He got benched for footie-gate so who's to say it's not something disciplinary and not long term.

I don't believe Brady's story.

I agree there's 300 theories and none of us have enough information to make an educated guess which one is right. If I'm going from most plausible to least I just don't rank a trade that high. Doesn't mean I'm right. IMO this is more a Josh and Wes thing than a Bill and Wes but that doesn't mean I'm right either. Just my gut feeling that both of them dug their heels in about something and this is the result.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'll go ahead and trust Belichick to not do something so ridiculously stupid.

 

[Triumph]

Pioli is under such fire right now for every former NEP acquisition he ever negotiated to KC I'm not sure he would survive dipping in that well again no matter how much sense it might make.

Not really.

The fans and media love RAC, but think he has too much on his plate (no pun) trying to be DC and HC. Vrabel was popular. Cassel had his best season as Chief under Charlie Weis.

If there was ever a time to spend some of that surplus cap space, this would be it. Welker would instantly become the Chiefs best weapon on offense since Jamal Charles is not the same pre injury.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

It was a shock.

He got benched for footie-gate so who's to say it's not something disciplinary and not long term.

I don't believe Brady's story.

I agree there's 300 theories and none of us have enough information to make an educated guess which one is right. If I'm going from most plausible to least I just don't rank a trade that high. Doesn't mean I'm right. IMO this is more a Josh and Wes thing than a Bill and Wes but that doesn't mean I'm right either. Just my gut feeling that both of them dug their heels in about something and this is the result.

I think if trade is ever a possibility in Bill's mind they will look at a few things in the next few weeks.......

1) What type of trade offer can they get?...they won't get anything if they don't franchise him again next year and just let him go...If a stunning trade offer is presented for a team in dire desperate need of a WR for the rest of this year then it could affect plans.

2) How Edelman will play in the next few weeks...if he stumbles and looks like crap or gets injured as he is prone to,then it can also affect trade plans and they just let Wes finish the year out.

3) How long will Hernandez be out?...If its found out that he may be out longer than expected then that also changes things

4) Gronk,Lloyd's health as well may be a factor


There can be lots of issues to keep a trade from happening,even if a trade was an intention......but we don't even know if that is even a possibility.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I'll go ahead and trust Belichick to not do something so ridiculously stupid.

In case you didn't see it,read your post which is #6 in the Moss debacle ...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/676514-rumor-moss-vikings.html

 

[Dragda]

Then you must have been the wisest member in here....MOST never saw it coming ....

Read the fun..

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/676514-rumor-moss-vikings.html

Thanks for that! Somehow I missed the thread, but people who live outside an internet-based forum openly wondered if Moss would be cut or traded after his presser. If I recall, we didn't have long to sit and wonder as they pulled the trigger quite quickly. I don't think the Welker situation compares because he is being a good company man during all this (at least publicly).

 

[supafly]

Patriots May Be Preparing Wes Welker For Trade: Fantasy Implications - SBNation.com

Sorry for another Welker thread,but my premise is a bit different than the others.

You cannot speculate about Welker here at patsfans. It's breaking one of the golden, unwritten rules.

To be honest I would be very disappointed if they did trade him, because the team would suffer greatly.

Since the thread I started a few wks ago, we have seen many WR's go, Hernandez get hurt, and the offense stumble--and that is WITH Welker here.

I do not think that they are currently prepared to deal with his absence at this point in time.

In a best case scenario, we tie Welker up for another couple of yrs on a fair deal when the season's over. He obviously is still the bread and butter of the offense.

That said, I of all people can certainly respect your thought that there are pros to doing so, but in this particular case there are just too many cons.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Thanks for that! Somehow I missed the thread, but people who live outside an internet-based forum openly wondered if Moss would be cut or traded after his presser. If I recall, we didn't have long to sit and wonder as they pulled the trigger quite quickly. I don't think the Welker situation compares because he is being a good company man during all this (at least publicly).

Yes,we do know Wes is being a professional...something that Moss found hard to do in front of the camera,but nobody knows if any hostility lies between closed doors.

That isn't the Patriot way and with the exception of Adalius,it almost never is.

 

[supafly]

I think if trade is ever a possibility in Bill's mind they will look at a few things in the next few weeks.......

1) What type of trade offer can they get?...they won't get anything if they don't franchise him again next year and just let him go...

I think your post is well thought out, looking at various angles of the potential.

The quoted part of your statement is what I would disagree with though, as we have to weigh the following:

--In an absolute BEST case scenario, we would get a 2nd round pick for Welker, possibly a 2nd and something like a 5th in addition.

vs.

--The fact that we will likely get a 3rd or 4th rd compensation pick in 2014 for his departure in free agency next year.

To me it's a 3rd/4th in 2014 (pretty much guaranteed) as a comp pick VS. a 2nd or 2nd + 4th/5th right now.

Since we are not currently prepared to be without Welker's services at the moment, I would go with the comp pick which will be a round later and a year later = 3rd in 2014 as opposed to 2nd in 2013.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I think your post is well thought out, looking at various angles of the potential.

The quoted part of your statement is what I would disagree with though, as we have to weigh the following:

--In an absolute BEST case scenario, we would get a 2nd round pick for Welker, possibly a 2nd and something like a 5th in addition.

vs.

--The fact that we will likely get a 3rd or 4th rd compensation pick in 2014 for his departure in free agency next year.

To me it's a 3rd/4th in 2014 (pretty much guaranteed) as a comp pick VS. a 2nd or 2nd + 4th/5th right now.

Since we are not currently prepared to be without Welker's services at the moment, I would go with the comp pick which will be a round later and a year later = 3rd in 2014 as opposed to 2nd in 2013.

I,like all of us don't want to lose Wes,this year,the next or the year after.

But if we do,then the team should be compensated well...Wes is a special player who should not come at a bargain trade.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Not sure why anyone would trade for a guy who's playing under the franchise tag. Furthermore not sure why the Patriots would tag Welker, go into the season with him, integrate him into the offense, use him fairly extensively, and then trade him. It makes no sense on any level. He's not going to be traded.

If the Pats just let him go after the season, they'll probably get a third rounder anyway (assuming that they don't sign a ton of free agents, which they probably won't) - how much more than that is another team going to pay for a 30+ WR playing under the franchise tag whose skills are highly dependent on chemistry with his quarterback?

Also, one of the main reasons why the Pats traded Moss was because, at the time, he simply wasn't a good receiver. He was not making the Patriots a better team by being on the roster- whatever injury he was dealing with had robbed him of both his speed and his leaping ability, and he was never physical enough for size to be his leading strong point. Welker is still highly effective in his role, so any comparison between the two is deeply flawed from the start.

 

[nekromantique]

i figured before the season that the pats might try to trade welker, since he almost definitely wont be with them next year, and he could bring in a good return.

i dont think that the limited playing time correlates to that at all (youd want to play him more, to showcase).


however, if theyre going to make a 'big' trade...welker would be the guy.

 

[supafly]

I,like all of us don't want to lose Wes,this year,the next or the year after.

But if we do,then the team should be compensated well...Wes is a special player who should not come at a bargain trade.

If you're insinuating that Welker would receive a 1st rounder in trade compensation, you're fooling yourself greatly IMO.

A 2nd rounder would be the most we'd get, unless they somehow were able to get a 2nd + something in the later rounds too, which is possible.

Welker and his slot role (not underestimating it) isn't going to get a 1st rd pick from anyone. It may have happened a couple years ago, it probably would have happened a few years ago, but not now.

So many people tend to overvalue their players and what they may be able to get in compensation, and although many are on board with a more realistic view of a 2nd OR at best a 2nd + later round in addition, there are still some who tend to think that he'd command a 1st round pick.

1st round picks are reserved for the most elite/young players of the NFL, and although Welker is an enormous talent, he falls short of that label.