Welcome to PatsFans.com

Is it gun time?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by alvinnf, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    There's no way of knowing if owning a gun would have helped this woman. I tend to doubt it. The only thing that would have prevented this might have been adults paying attention to their kids and making sure they aren't raising neo-Nazi, sociopathic scumbags capable of this sh!t.

    Buy a gun or not, but don't do it to protect yourself from something like this freak show. This is something like a lightning strike or a meteor falling from space. It is exceedingly rare and does not indicate a trend, IMO.
  3. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Maybe a strong box with an electronic key pad? You wouldn't want to be fumbling for keys or trying to go past the last number before stopping on the next number with a standard combination lock. You could put the kids' birth certificates and what not in there too. This way if one grows up to be President you can be Johnny on the spot with proof that'll shut up any truthers;)

    A noisy, light sleeping dog and a phone kept handy might be your best bet though. You pay property taxes right? why not focus on putting yourself in a position to get the Police assistance you're paying for?

    Oh and Wista's almost certainly right. Don't forget to guard against Tornadoes, lightning strikes and invasions from Vermont while you're at it.
  4. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    I don't think these acts are all that random anymore. Something about our culture has de-evolved. These kids come from relatively normal families in nice quiet communities. There where the Dartmouth prof. that were randomly killed a couple years back. We have people cutting live babies out of mothers wombs. I wasn't really looking for gun advice, but thanks anyway of course. I cant put my finger on what it is that has desensitized our teens. The last 5 or 10 years are marred with senseless acts of violence against innocent people. This is more sociological than psychosis. What, when and where did it change?
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,797
    Likes Received:
    311
    Ratings:
    +515 / 9 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    When Freddy Kruger, Leatherface, Jason, et-al showed up at the movie theaters.

    Kids have been raised on violence for the last 20 or 25 years. Movies, television, video games - it's everywhere - and it's acceptable.

    Hell, I'm not even sure half the kids nowdays realize that if you kill someone they actually die.

    Once you've been desensitized to something, anything, it's very easy to become that which you've been desensitized to.

    I think way back when, when kids played cowboys and Indians or GI Joe there were clear cut enemies - and the enemies (rightly or wrongly) didn't resemble the kid who sat next to you in 3rd grade. Now all the killers look like all the victims - you can't tell anyone apart and everyone is a potential attacker/victim, depending on your state of mind.

    Plus, they just jump back up after they're killed in the most hideous of manner and go on to star in the next 6 movies in whatever series of gore they're appearing in.

    Kids aren't all that smart sometimes - it gives them the illusion that death is not real and that no one really gets hurt by it.

    Plus, forgive me for saying so all you liberal-lefties who have thought up until now that I'm on your side, but we really need to start punishing those who do bad things unto others. I mean really punish them.
  6. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    I wont say I disagree with this, I think it's a big piece of it. I think the ego has allot to do with it. Everyone is a star.....Reality shows produce fame among the moronic and self involved. So there is a stage now, for the maniacal thoughts that might have somehow been suppressed in the past. Now in the subconscious of some depraved teen, 15 minutes of fame has become folklore.
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    People in general are desensitized by the media/government/corporations insistence that we accept violence as a perpetual price we pay to be the "free and safe" country we are alleged to be. The images are on TV all the time. War, destruction, violence are common themes in the corporate media message we've been getting for 25 years now.

    Combine that with the 24-hour news on cable (which began around that same time) which give the impression that these acts are happening all the time and with increasing frequency but are actually happening at the same rate as it always did, or not much more. 25 years ago, we would never have heard about a murder in Arizona or Florida. Now all violent acts are on TV all the time.

    We're being trained to accept it as normal so we don't notice the perpetual state of war we're beginning. It's going to be the New Economy- Conquer and Plunder. The last part is just a theory of mine. Obama is proving me true.
  8. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,852
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +39 / 2 / -0

    They killed her in bed, I doubt she had time to run to the safe and grab her 9mm. Using a gun reactively against an intruder in closed quarters is incredibly difficult.

    Not to mention that you'd be protecting yourself more by wearing a helmet in the car than having a gun in your house on the off chance that you lose the lottery and have a violent intruder.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,797
    Likes Received:
    311
    Ratings:
    +515 / 9 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    This is actually both true and non-true. Crime peaked at a really high level in the 80's but it's been on a down-turn since then. 2005 was actually the safest year in the last 30 years. Homicide's in particular decreased 42% between a high in 1991 and a low in 2005.

    Poverty, however, will most likely kick the stats back up there.

    Since 1964, the U.S. crime rate has increased by as much as 350%, and over 11 million crimes were reported in the year 2007 alone.[10] Crime in the United States has fluctuated considerably over the course of the last half-century, rising significantly in the late 1960s and 1970s, peaking in the 1980s and then decreasing considerably in the 1990s.

    Over the past thirty years, the crime rate rose throughout the 1980s, reached its peak in 1991 and then began to decrease throughout the 1990s and 2000s. Recent statistics indicate that crime could again be increasing.[8]

    The year 2005 was overall the safest year in the past thirty years. The recent overall decrease has reflected upon all significant types of crime, with all violent and property crimes having decreased and reached an all-time low. The homicide rate in particular has decreased over 42% between its record high point in 1991 and 2005.


    Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,406
    Likes Received:
    137
    Ratings:
    +264 / 10 / -26

    I am still surprised that this is random... if it is, that concerns me..
  11. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    Remember the Dartmouth killings. Those were random. There was an account of a man a week or so later who had the perps at his house in the middle of the night. He went downstairs in his skivies with gun in hand and told them to politely get off his property. The following day he found a grave for himself and his son on his property. A couple days later the Professors were found dead. He averted death. These acts are premeditated yet random which is scary because it exhibits an absence of malice. Their doing it because they can for whatever reason. At least J.Dahmer was hungry...Is this our millenniums version of "ring and run"?
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,797
    Likes Received:
    311
    Ratings:
    +515 / 9 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    I've spent the better part of the last month trying to explain "random" to my youngest son who's lost 7 close friends (all under the age of 30) since January. 1 to suicide, 1 to a car accident, 1 to a drug overdose, 1 to a motorcycle accident, 1 in Afganistan and 2 to murder.

    It's impossible to explain "random" because when random happens to you, it's no longer random and the word loses all meaning.

    All of the deaths were ugly. But the murders were particularily ugly. I've worked in EMS for a long time, I've seen lots of "ugly" - and because I was a medic in a small town most of the ugly was known to me before it became so. But this was especially hideous because it should have been preventable.

    Two sisters, 26 and 28 years old - one newly married, one a first time home owner. Beautiful girls with everything going for them. Good jobs, great families, good health. Their father was my EMS supervisor and Batt. Chief - he's got pancreatic cancer, but that's another tragedy. Anyhow, newly married sister came back to her home town to spend the weekend with new home owner sister. They decided to throw a party - just a few friends she hadn't seen for awhile. One friend brought a casual acquaintance who'd just moved into the neighborhood. Casual acquaintance got drunk and sisters decided they'd let him sleep it off on the couch. After all, friends don't let friends drive drunk, right?

    Only casual acquaintance got up in the middle of the night, raped one sister, cracked her over the head and slit her throat. Not content with that, he woke up the other sister and did the same to her.....dragged both of them into the bathroom and threw them in the tub. He then systematically robbed everything he could from the house and, several hours later, covered the sisters with bed sheets and blankets and set fire to them.

    Their dad found them - the coroner's report said they both had smoke in their lungs. You all don't need to be medics or doctors to know what that means.

    Turns out "casual acquaintance" had just gotten out of jail 6 weeks previously - for rape. Second rape. He's done two 5 year terms for rape, in fact and was arrested approx. 6 weeks after the first one for the second one. While in jail for Rape #2 he'd amassed over 75 violations for various infractions. He still got out of jail after serving half his sentence - and he waited 6 weeks and escalated his rape into rape, murder and arson.

    There was nothing in any paper but the local ones. Channel 9 in Chicago gave it a few minutes, but no details - only that the bodies of two young women had been found murdered.

    It scares me to think of what we don't read. We think we know it all because of the Internet but we don't. This double murder took place at the same time the co-ed went missing from Yale. One made national news, two didn't.

    I'm glad for the parent's sake that this one didn't - they've got enough on their plate as it is without battling media coverage - but it seems unfair that two young girls with everything to live for were so brutally victimized without acknowledgement of some sort from the rest of the world.

    Makes me wonder how much else we don't hear about even though we think we hear about all of it.

    Would a gun in the house have helped the sisters? Maybe, who knows? Or maybe he would have wrestled it away from them and used it against them. Maybe that would have been better - they would have died sooner at least.

    Being a single woman for a long time I have, at various times, had guns in the house and didn't have guns in the house. Honestly, I never felt much safer knowing I had one when I had one. A woman, especially a small one, is always aware that what looks to be her saviour could turn out to be her downfall. It doesn't take much to take a gun away from a woman half your size, especially if she's scared - and if she's in that situation, she's scared. She's either got to be prepared to use it or she shouldn't have it. But no one really knows if they're going to be prepared.....it's a lot different in reality than it is in your mind. Your hands shake, your arms shake, your whole body shakes - and no matter how good you shoot on the range, you've got to remember - you're probably not shaking when you're aiming at a paper target. Paper targets aren't screaming at you, they aren't lunging at you, your kids aren't whimpering in their bedrooms when you're aiming at a target at the range - the cat's not hissing, your heart's not pounding, the dog's not barking, there's not some stranger doing his level best to shut everyone the hell up since this is all way more than he expected and now he's as trapped as you are - and he's got nothing to lose if he decides that simply robbing you isn't going to work anymore.

    Plus, if there are kids in the house, where do you keep the damn thing? You darn well better have it locked up - and it ought to be unloaded. So what do you do when you wake up to find a 6 foot tall stranger standing over you? Ask him to hold on a second?

    If you're single and alone you COULD sleep with it under your pillow - I won't bore you with stories of how many times I've gotten called in the middle of the night because some poor fool mistook the trigger for his remote or some such nonsense - I'll just tell you it's really NOT a good idea to sleep with a loaded pistol.

    It's a quandry, isn't it?

    Take the guns away from everyone - leave them to the police and the military. Lock up the criminals - forget about "good behaviour," forget about reduced sentences, forget about leniency in all but the most obvious of cases, forget about plea barginning. Chemically castrate the raping bastads - hell, non-chemically castrate them for all I care. As for the murderers - if you're going to have the death penalty, use it - otherwise lock 'em up and throw away the key.....make sure everyone's aware that's what's going to happen.

    Rant, I'm ranting.

    MrPRnV is going to kill me.

    :)
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  13. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,013
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Well if they had used a gun you know the group think liberals would all be squawking about stronger gun laws. Machetes don't kill people...
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,406
    Likes Received:
    137
    Ratings:
    +264 / 10 / -26

    One does not equate with the other... there is no logic or method of making these type of connection... surprised the police made statements so quickly, usually there is a lengthier investigation.. very seldom are things so airtight and easily solved.
  15. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    It probably is premeditated. The four of them lucked out supposedly by finding a house that had two women in it , one young and the father away on business. Small community probably not likely that there isn't some connection there somewhere. If it is random it's even scarier out there than one thinks it is.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,822
    Likes Received:
    170
    Ratings:
    +537 / 2 / -9

    Your right on with this Mrs PV, those slimey creeps out in Hollywood share quite a bit of blame for the bad stuff that goes on in this country and it's right in our homes, tune a movie in on HBO and within 5 minutes they are having sex and stabbing people to death.

    MONKEY SEE
    MONKEY DO -------the pop culture liberal ding dongs can't or don't want to understand this.
  17. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    7,883
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    .................................................

    Attached Files:

  18. State

    State Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,515
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    #70 Jersey

    You broke into the wrong wreck room, worm.

    AR-15 (mag ready to go--for use against humans), Enfield .303 (mag ready to go--for use against bears), Ruger Mini 14, Colt King Cobra, Taurus PT 140, Glock 22 (multiple mags ready to go, filled with 15 rounds each), Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt, snubbie .38, Ruger 10 22, double barreled shotgun....13 in all.

    I'd be scratching my arse, thinking of which one to use. So I guess I'm vulnerable too.

    The story sounds like "A Clockwork Orange."
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    15,797
    Likes Received:
    311
    Ratings:
    +515 / 9 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2Vdcv9Q_o
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  20. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,300
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>