Is it 5 days before Seau & Brown officially are retired?

[JoePats]

There are too many Patriot numbers retired already. They need to unretire all of them, have a ceremony honoring them all again and grandfathering them into the new HOF to take the sting out of that, induct all the previously mentioned dynasty era players and Bill/Scott into the new Patiots HOF within a year or two of their retirements, have the players who wear that number going forward wear a patch signifying a former wearer is now enshrined in the Patriots HOF, and only retire the number of players who are in both the Foxboro and Canton HOF going forward.

As for Seau, Troy and Ty I do think it's 5 days and counting although Ty could get the call most anywhere a week or two into camp if the $$$ is dangled. I think Seau will surface here unless his body has said enough, but I don't think Troy will. And I think any other team who envisioned him as a veteran presence would have wanted him on their roster in May to learn their offense and mentor youngsters. So I do expect a retirement announcement from him soon unless he decides to hedge his bets as a NE shadow roster candidate for one last season. And I am not worried about the team doing the right thing by him when he does make an announcement.

1) Agree but it's awfully hard to unretire a number. It seems low-class. Look, just because the Pats have retired 4 numbers already doesn't mean that it's ok to keep retiring them. That's exactly the thinking that would lead the Yankees to retire Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams' number.

2) I don't think Seau or Law are 5-days and done, but I'm guessing that Troy probably is. The team will definately do the right thing...I think on one of the 3-games to glory dvds, Myra Kraft said Troy was her favorite player, after he won some community service award...did I remember that right?

 

[PatsFan37]

1) Agree but it's awfully hard to unretire a number. It seems low-class. Look, just because the Pats have retired 4 numbers already doesn't mean that it's ok to keep retiring them. That's exactly the thinking that would lead the Yankees to retire Paul O'Neill or Bernie Williams' number.

2) I don't think Seau or Law are 5-days and done, but I'm guessing that Troy probably is. The team will definately do the right thing...I think on one of the 3-games to glory dvds, Myra Kraft said Troy was her favorite player, after he won some community service award...did I remember that right?

Obviously, the problem is that retiring numbers of the great players of any given generation makes it pretty tough to put 80 players on a roster without a lot of duplicates.

OTOH, after a great player retires, no one wants to see some scrub out there wearing 12 or 54 or what-have-you.

So either you don't retire numbers, or you have, as Metaphors suggested, an unretirement ceremony coupled with a Pats HOF ceremony. Then maybe you could start a new policy of retiring numbers for a fixed period of time, say 10 or 15 or 20 years. There's only 99 numbers, how else would you do it?

(ok, I re-read metaphors post about the patch, and both halls-of-fame -- which is a pretty decent idea -- but I still think it should be time-limited)

 

[fgssand]

Definitely not so with Seau.

Any basis for your definitive statement or just your own educated guess.

Either way, I hope you are right.

 

[Gumby]

Real easy answer for TC anyway til you get down to 53; you can always use #s 0A, ...1A, 1B, 1C; that gives you 260 more #s .......

seriously though; unretiring numbers just to align with the NFL HOF is stupid. We all agree a guy like Tippett deserves to be in NFL HOF and it is just the anti-Patriots prejudice of the 70s & 80s when all the NFL AFCE focus was on Marino and the Pats only had success intermittently. So we should now stipulate that our players who were NFL HOF quality actually sucked???

there should be different standards for team and nfl jersey retirement. But I would say that this is another argument for that 'ring of fame' thing someone else brought up before.

I would also note that it is possible to unretire a number for a great-deservign player (especially if you have the retired guys permission). Just look at Steve Largent and Jerry Rice when he did his last year in Seattle. You just dont do it for rookies or nobodies.

 

[jmt57]

Real easy answer for TC anyway til you get down to 53; you can always use #s 0A, ...1A, 1B, 1C; that gives you 260 more #s .....

That would work, except what then happens in the four pre-season games - unless the NFL starts allowing letters to be used as part of the number during games?

You can honor a player without retiring his number. Put his name and number in the new Pats Hall of Fame; in a 'Ring of Honor'; in a banner on top of the front page of the team's website; up front on the team's media guide and prominently displayed every year in the team's yearbook, for example.

The NFL has a valid reason for discouraging teams from retiring many numbers. 99 TC numbers minus 80 TC players equals an absolute maximum of 19 retired numbers. If the team retires a number every few years, they are going to be out of available numbers very quickly. Add to that the fact that 1 through 19 can only be worn by quarterbacks, wide receivers, kickers and punters, and there just aren't enough of the other numbers to go around if a team retires a dozen or more numbers.

The NFL could help out by letting teams off the hook and not letting them retire numbers; that way the team is not the 'bad guy' for not retiring the number. In addition, they could permit a player wearing the number of a team or NFL hall of famer to wear a patch honoring that player with his name and number.

 

[MKats31]

It will be sad to see Troy go he was a True Patriot

 

[Jimke]

The only sure thing that will happen in the next 5 days is that the

Pats will bring their roster up to 80 by adding three bodies.

 

[spacecrime]

OTOH, after a great player retires, no one wants to see some scrub out there wearing 12 or 54 or what-have-you.

Why? Who gives a crap in a ST guy wears #24 or #78 or whatever?

I suspect most people wouldn't care if we gave out #79, and if we gave out #80 or #55 I wouldn't care either. It's just part of the uniform. The number isn't the player.

There are a million ways to honor a former player. Retiring his number is pointless

 

[Pats726]

The only sure thing that will happen in the next 5 days is that the

Pats will bring their roster up to 80 by adding three bodies.

I agree add 3...WHO will be interesting...I do not expect Seau to be among the 3..he MIGHT be brought n a bit later...depending.

 

[Jimke]

I agree add 3...WHO will be interesting...I do not expect Seau to be among the 3..he MIGHT be brought n a bit later...depending.

Seau will probably be brought in as a PUP.

 

[coltsfan09]

Do you see Seau or Brown coming into the middle of camp if they do not rejoin the team in 5 days at training camp?

I think its a done deal with Brown who I am 99.9% sure that will announce his retirement within the week and I say if Seau is not here in 5 days at the start of camp he does the same - With Seau's work ethics and attitude I cannot see him just wait on his decision and miss camp,I think if he is going to go into another season he will either do it by thursday or finally hang it up.

Ty Law apparently has no interest anywhere as well, especially with his salary demands, so maybe its a retirement trifecta we see in a few days - Although of the 3, I think Law gets signed late by a team desperate for some DB depth.

I have not heard anything about these 3 guys so I guess its 5 days or bust for them.

if i were u guys, i wouldnt of let Seau in in the first place. He like still played when Johnny Unita's time

 

[Patjew]

if i were u guys, i wouldnt of let Seau in in the first place. He like still played when Johnny Unita's time

Are you only the ninth Colts fan to join the MB? Seems like there have been like alot more.

 

[dryheat44]

Retired numbers of Patriot Players not in the NFL HOF:

40 Mike Haynes
56 Andre Tippett
57 Steve Nelson
79 Jim Hunt

Mike Haynes and Andre Tippett are both in the HoF. Nelson is more like Brown, in that they were fan favorites and long-time Patriots that suffered some lean years, although Nelson was the more accomplished on the field.

 

[Kontradiction]

Eh, I won't mind so much if Seau doesn't come back. Our defense is already old enough as it is. We don't need another pair of almost 40 year old legs.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Doing some quick math....we have retired 3 numbers in the last 30 years? Safe to say 1 every 10 years? Now this Dynasty comes along you almost have to retire at least 2 numbers in this 10 year interval.....we know 12 will be one of them, and it wouldnt surprise me to see the Krafts do this. Comparing him to Nelson is the proper comparison.
I dont think Seau and Brown will play ANYWHERE else, but I also think they could be couching it like Vinny....while we see how the young LBs come along and who gets IR'ed along the way. Players get hurt all the time, giving the old guys camp and a few weeks off and prime them for the playoffs seems more likely to me.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Retired numbers of Patriot Players not in the NFL HOF:

40 Mike Haynes
56 Andre Tippett
57 Steve Nelson
79 Jim Hunt

Sorry Wildo. Haynes IS in the NFL HOF; and Andre Tippett JOINS him this year, too.

As for Jimmy Lee Hunt and Steve Nelson, they were good players, but Houston Antwine was better than Jimmy Lee, as a contemporary player. Steve Nelson's number should be unretired along with Jim Hunts.

Nellie was a good player but he isn't the best LB to ever play MLB for th Patriots. Here is a NFL HOF Patriot's number that is NOT retired, and if you believe in equity, #85 should be retired too. It was the number worn by a player who played more years for the Pats than anyone else, and was a Star who was traded in his declining years to a contender. There he helped stabilize a bunch of youngsters and created a Defense that become known as " the Killer Bs" that was named after him. He guided that Defense to the only undefeated record, in NFL history.

I refer of course to All American, Notre Damer and Patriots MLB, Nick Buoniconti.

He was the greatest MLB to ever play the MLB position for the Patriots. He definitely earned his HOF status.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Ya, sure, but didnt Julius Adams wear it all through the 80s pretty good after Nick went onto the hated Phins? Wasnt he wearing it in Miami when we squished the fish?? Oh ya, he was.....

 

[Wildo7]

Sorry Wildo. Haynes IS in the NFL HOF; and Andre Tippett JOINS him this year, too.

As for Jimmy Lee Hunt and Steve Nelson, they were good players, but Houston Antwine was better than Jimmy Lee, as a contemporary player. Steve Nelson's number should be unretired along with Jim Hunts.

Nellie was a good player but he isn't the best LB to ever play MLB for th Patriots. Here is a NFL HOF Patriot's number that is NOT retired, and if you believe in equity, #85 should be retired too. It was the number worn by a player who played more years for the Pats than anyone else, and was a Star who was traded in his declining years to a contender. There he helped stabilize a bunch of youngsters and created a Defense that become known as " the Killer Bs" that was named after him. He guided that Defense to the only undefeated record, in NFL history.

I refer of course to All American, Notre Damer and Patriots MLB, Nick Buoniconti.

He was the greatest MLB to ever play the MLB position for the Patriots. He definitely earned his HOF status.

Yeah my bad, the site I got those from hadn't been updated in a couple of years I guess.

 

[AzPatsFan]

There are too many Patriot numbers retired already. They need to unretire all of them, have a ceremony honoring them all again and grandfathering them into the new HOF to take the sting out of that, induct all the previously mentioned dynasty era players and Bill/Scott into the new Patiots HOF within a year or two of their retirements, have the players who wear that number going forward wear a patch signifying a former wearer is now enshrined in the Patriots HOF, and only retire the number of players who are in both the Foxboro and Canton HOF going forward.

As for Seau, Troy and Ty I do think it's 5 days and counting although Ty could get the call most anywhere a week or two into camp if the $$$ is dangled. I think Seau will surface here unless his body has said enough, but I don't think Troy will. And I think any other team who envisioned him as a veteran presence would have wanted him on their roster in May to learn their offense and mentor youngsters. So I do expect a retirement announcement from him soon unless he decides to hedge his bets as a NE shadow roster candidate for one last season. And I am not worried about the team doing the right thing by him when he does make an announcement.

Mo,

I like your suggestion. I had proposed instead of a Patch, that the HOF player's name be placed below the numbers (in gold or something), as well the new wearers name above, as is now done.

That way the new fans would be inclined to remember or research a player wearing a HOF player's jersey, to find out more about the great player.

That's a living memorial, rather than a dead, retired, number.

 

[ScottieC]

I know the league isnt retiring his or any number. But my point is that the retiring number standard should apply to the league, not the individual teams. Again, if you're not a Hall of Fame player, I don't feel your number should be retired.

Right, We have 4 guys in the HOF and those should be the ones considered for a retired No. (But not all 4 should be retired) - All the others should be reinstated. I know that there are a lot of strong feelings about this, as we all like our guys, but that's the way it should be IMO.

How many No's are retired in Green Bay compared to NE? They have 5 Retired No's (We have 7) and they have 26 guys (That they can claim) in the HOF - A retired no. should be held for the best of the best, i.e. Hannah, Tippet and someday Brady.

Just a side note - I'm talking specifically about retired no's - NOT our Patriots Hall of Fame, I love our Hall - It's the legacy of the team and I applaud Kraft for really moving on it and making it special.