Is Brandon Spikes time with the Patriots limited?

[VrabelJr]

Why did they draft Hightower I don't really think he's meant to be a long-term solution at OLB.

This this this this this.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Ok what are you basing this on? The problem with your post is the word "I". It does not matter what "you" and "I" think. What if BB loves him on the outside because he can come down off the edge and rush the passer. When BB has talked about Jamie Collins he keeps comparing him to Hightower with versatility to rush the passer OFF THE EDGE!

So according to you Hightower is moved to the middle and you have taken away from his game to rush the passer from the outside.

Come on now, I don't think we should believe anything BB says to the media.

Maybe BB saw a guy that offers the ability to stuff the run and cover like the kind of MLB he wishes Spikes was that could also play effectively outside for the first 2 years and then slide inside when Spikes is gone.

Versatility doesn't mean Hightower is forever pegged at OLB for this team. I'm not saying the team "wants" to lose Spikes. They just seem to be ready with the perfect replacement if Spikes' contract demands are more than what they deem his value is as a run-stuffing LB that cannot play the pass to save his life.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You guys see him around next year? Great at stopping the run but in coverage...is really bad. Wonder if Collins has a solid year if they decide to let him go. Collins has the ability to do it all. But they need LBs who can cover and i wonder if that pick on Collins means anything in regards to spikes

I think he's out after this season. He's too one-dimensional for what someone will be willing to give him in FA.

 

[Sciz]

I think he's out after this season. He's too one-dimensional for what someone will be willing to give him in FA.

So why would another team pay him so much if he's so one-dimensional?

 

[Brady2Moss]

So why would another team pay him so much if he's so one-dimensional?

Because there are teams out there that drafted Brandon Weeden and EJ Manuel in the first round, lots of teams are run by people trying to save their jobs. Also some teams just have a **** load of cap space might as well spend it on a badass linebacker.

 

[Joker]

So why would another team pay him so much if he's so one-dimensional?

for the same reason someone would pay Asante Samuel for being a gambling, bad technique corner...some teams see what they want to see in a player.Personally, from memory, I seem to recall that the Giants of LT,Carson, Carl Banks also had Pepper Johnson and Gary Reasons in on a large percentage of plays...why does Spikes have to go when he's a modern day Pepper Johnson? I think it's jumping the gun a bit talking about Spikes's demise as a Patriot.

 

[JMarr]

He also tells the QB -- "If you're going to throw the ball, you don't have to worry about me sacking you or breaking up the pass"

I'm okay with having Spikes back if the cost is reasonable. But if we're going to stay with a 4-3 I'd really like to have a stud can-do-everything lb along with Mayo and Hightower. If we switch to a 3-4, I think Mayo & Spikes in middle with another good (better than Nink) outside LB would be idea.

A REALLY good idea probably. Move Vince back to his natural position, at which he's the best in the league. Like someone else said, a 3-4 set with Mayo, Spikes, Hightower and Collins could be pretty damn formidable.



"'.He also tells the QB -- "If you're going to throw the ball, you don't have to worry about me sacking you or breaking up the pass.'"

No, he's a decent rusher and not all that bad in coverage for a big LB. Not saying you, but I think some people actually still use his 40 time at the Combine to argue that he's so terrible in coverage that he's expendable. Lol.

Even if he did absolutely suck in coverage, no way BB gets rid of him unless Hightower becomes a pro-bowler, they stick with a 4-3 base, and Collins wins DROY. This D needs to be much more physical, and that Pats absolutely need The Thumper in there. I agree with people who say BB realizes he needs better LB's than he's had the last few seasons (and more of them).

 

[JMarr]

This this this this this.

You guys can't be serious. Was Mayo drafted as an outside LB? No. Mayo and Hightower can both play OLB at a high level, especially in the 4-3.

Fantasy football really blows--i'm sure it makes some fans think that not having an Aldon Smith or Clay Mathews on the outside is unacceptable. You know, our defensive scheme does allow for subbing out players on obvious passing downs.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

We might want to keep in mind that this could (hopefully) be the first year Spikes plays with a competent secondary behind him. He could benefit from that, or it could be another reason for QB's to exploit his limitations.

The second year leaps of Jones and Hightower are as big an X factor as drafting Collins when it comes to how this front 7 is composed.

It's interesting to see how much depth we have at LB this year considering Gary Guyton was a starter a few years ago. If we let Spikes go after this season it will be because we have improved massively at that position.

 

[supafly]

The possibility certainly exists for Brandon Spikes and the front office not being able to agree on Spikes' compensation when the season is over.

For one thing, he needs to be able to continue upon his 2012 season and not the previous time beforehand (although his return from injury in the 2011 playoff run did prove to be very beneficial). Up to the 2011 playoff run, many were questioning his play, skills, and most of all--attitude.

He improved and showed some great play in the 2012 season, and stepped up like a leader should. He'll have to continue upon that success to likely warrant anywhere near the kind of money that he sees himself getting in the open market. The money for an ILB shouldn't be too excessive, but that has nothing to do with whether or not Belichick and Spikes will agree on his value.

It's a great sign that it seems as though he's settled in and picked up all of the nuances of the defense, and it's quite possible that it simply took him awhile to be able to know the ins/outs of what Belichick expected from him. Let's hope he continues upon the success of last season.

 

[supafly]

If we let Spikes go after this season it will be because we have improved massively at that position.

Or it will be because Bill Belichick and Nick Caserio do not agree with Brandon Spikes on his value, length of term, signing bonus, AAV, and any other variables that go into retaining players--which is always a possibility; especially if they hit on any of Collins, Fletcher, UDFA's, or see potential cheap rookie fits in next year's draft class.

On this team, finanical implications are everything. If they feel you can be replaced for cheaper cost or that your value doesn't match up with their individual player assessments--you are out the door in a hurry. Especially at the end of your rookie contract. They have proven that they are willing to roll the dice to save money, there's no doubt about that.

If Spikes wants to stay and see a nice second deal he should continue and progress with the leadership, attitude, team-first, and hard work ethic.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

Or it will be because Bill Belichick and Nick Caserio do not agree with Brandon Spikes on his value, length of term, signing bonus, AAV, and any other variables that go into retaining players--which is always a possibility; especially if they hit on any of Collins, Fletcher, UDFA's, or see potential cheap rookie fits in next year's draft class.

On this team, finanical implications are everything. If they feel you can be replaced for cheaper cost or that your value doesn't match up with their individual player assessments--you are out the door in a hurry. Especially at the end of your rookie contract. They have proven that they are willing to roll the dice to save money, there's no doubt about that.

If Spikes wants to stay and see a nice second deal he should continue and progress with the leadership, attitude, team-first, and hard work ethic.

Sure, what I said was somewhat of a simplification.

If Spikes has similar production this year he probably isn't going to break the bank contractually wherever he goes. If we want him we can probably get him without really hurting our cap space too much. My point is that we possibly can let a LB who has some serious strengths walk because we might have guys in place who can do his job. Thus Spikes will probably have less leverage with the Pats than he would have had a few years ago.

Regardless, I think he was a pretty good draft pick and if Hightower takes his job it will show that at least one part of our D has been moving in the right direction.

 

[supafly]

Sure, what I said was somewhat of a simplification.

If Spikes has similar production this year he probably isn't going to break the bank contractually wherever he goes. If we want him we can probably get him without really hurting our cap space too much. My point is that we possibly can let a LB who has some serious strengths walk because we might have guys in place who can do his job. Thus Spikes will probably have less leverage with the Pats than he would have had a few years ago.

Regardless, I think he was a pretty good draft pick and if Hightower takes his job it will show that at least one part of our D has been moving in the right direction.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be a smartass. I agree with everything you say, I just think that some also forget the financial implications of the business aspect vs the "talent" or production. We all see plenty of productive and talented players who go on to start for other teams in the age of the salary cap, even moreso in the current age of the flatter cap.

I don't think it'll cost as much as some perceive to sign Spikes, but a small amount of difference of opinion certainly hasn't prevented Belichick from making some tough/smart football decisions in the past.

Like I said, I think his leadership ability, smarts, attitude, and hard work ethic will go a long way towards whether or not Belichick offers him a nice deal that will satisfy his desires, and I think that can be said for just about any player looking towards their second pact coming off a cheap rookie deal.

 

[Joker]

and...IF the new kid can rush the passer from the OLB spot and Jones is healthy and back in form, then statues like Flacco will have to lower their eyes in the pocket...and the twenty yard passes to big WR's in double coverage over our smurfs with five and six seconds unmolested in the pocket become the rarity not the rule.

The Ravens loss was a combination of bad plays that were never going to be overcome that day. Welker dropping that pass that hit him right in the hands...a gimme if I ever saw one...that was a play the team HAS to have in a playoff game. Brady overthrowing Hernandez on the right side with 40 yards open in front of him...THAT is a pass that Brady has to make...the crucial drops...the failed runs...these were all factors but to me, without question, the biggest factor was Flacco ignoring the Pats defense in the pocket and Ray Rice running to the outside on the left and getting crucial first downs when the plays SHOULD have been stopped for losses, Chung was useless on every one of these runs as was the penetration by the D line and backers. I saw the game from field level four rows back...it's just like being on the sidelines. The Ravens ran to the left with impunity inside the 20. That hurt to watch.

The injury to Talib led to a less than optimal secondary lineup IMO...one the Ravens spotted and exploited the entire 2nd half. Chung is history now. Talib ,McCourty and Dennard are all trustworthy D backs IMO and I have no problem with Arrington playing the slot nickel. What we need that game was someone to SMASH the ball carrier when he bumped it outside. Gregory and Chung did not have that capability and it cost us. We also had NOTHING as far as penetration into the backfield from the edge. I'm hoping that Collins fills that role with Jones on the opposite side and our triad of inside backers manning the gaps. The Ravens doubled Wilfork with impunity because they never had any worries about the edge rush.THIS year I hope, if it's one thing they've improved, it's the pass rush and penetration.

edit:and no...I'm NOT forgetting the passes Pitta hauled in...another problem that can be addressed by making the QB more nervous in the pocket.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

his leadership ability, smarts, attitude, and hard work ethic

I don't doubt that he works hard. However, I don't know that he's much of a leader, and after a year of him tweeting, I don't think he's very smart. IMHO

For the right price, he might be resigned, but I just don't see it happening.

 

[Jackson 2]

Ok my friend you are reaching way deep on this one! What press conference are you referring to or what comments are you referring to? The word is called "speculation" which means made up, and not based on facts. For all you know it could be totally the opposite and he trust him more than you know. If he didn't trust him, he wouldn't be out there.

I said I "sensed" which means it's a feeling I have. I didn't claim it was based on any empirical evidence. Jeez, lighten up, sport.

 

[yukon cornelius]

the game is evolving past LB's like spikes right now

there are no more obvious 'passing downs' and 'running downs' (taking away the obvious 3rd and long situations

teams (like the patriots) are using the passing game just as much to gain short yardage as they are running the ball

1st down is just as much a passing down as any other

more and more teams are loading up on TE's (how many athletic tight ends did you see drafted this weekend?), more and more teams are going to run that two TE set

more and more teams are running the fast paced set to limit substitutions.....hell, the innovator is even in the league right now

all those things factor into the league moving away from LB's like Spikes, who are traditional old-school two down LB's.....versatilie LB's who can cover is the new breed LB



that is going to limit his value.....if he and his agent can see that, and he likes it in NE, his contract is reasonable, you keep him around and all is good, and you keep him

thing is, you know there's a few teams that will be behind the curve that will pay him on the old school LB scale vs. the new.....and that might lead to the patriots not matching his offer, and "refusing to pay" or "being cheap" once again


such is the price for often being ahead of the learning curve in the NFL......the LB position is evolving along with offenses....Spikes skillset doesn't mesh with the evolution......and the question is going to be will Spikes and his agent see that.......and are there 31 other GM's who feel the same way

 

[FCB02062]

If Spikes agrees to play on the cheap, then the Pats will keep him. If not, he's gone....Pats business as usual....

 

[doesntmatter1]

Spikes is definitely our weak link on check downs and when hes in man coverage but we are underestimating his value to other teams. We can do just fine without him because we seem to easily find linebackers that can stop the run but many teams are desperate for run stuffers.

Teams load up the box to stop backs like peterson and he still runs through it. Spikes would really help those teams out against these backs. Even though spikes is slow, he rarely misses tackles and he can take on blocks like a champ.

I want to make it clear that I want to keep spikes, but he needs to see more time on the bench. When the ravens decided to run many of their plays from shotgun in the second half is exactly the time when spikes should have taken a seat. The ravens went pass happy and then sprinkled in a few runs here and there. And the runs that were effective were the ones that got to the edge and a faster lb might have helped.

Although it is irrelevant to spikes, chung going down(whats new) hurt us alot as well. If Chung stays mccourty could've went back to cb instead of letting cole defend bolden aka superman that day.

 

[Ivan]

Spikes is a really talented run stuffer who definitely brings physicality and attitude to their defense and I have no doubt that Belichick wants to keep him here and in that 2 down run stuffing role, the question is simply about whether he will accept that he is a role player and take the money that comes with that, my guess is that he won't. I think Spikes sees himself as an every down player and a star and he is going to want much more money than Belichick is going to be willing to give him. I would love to see them go ahead and try to get a deal done with him now with their remaining cap space but i'm guessing they will prioritize McCourty and get that done first and put Spikes on the back burner and take their chances with him. If they could somehow pull off both that would be the best case scenario for them long term.