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Is Brady Tougher Than Grogan?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by IcyPatriot, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I loved Grogan ... for all his flaws he was one tough player. Up to his time...I would say as tough as any QB who ever played the game. He took alot of shots .... some his own fault due to his love of the run.

    tough to compare ... Brady doesn't run much and Brady definitely
    takes much better care of his body than Grogan ever did.

    I say Brady is tougher than Grogan because he has played at an extreme high level in alot of pain. Brady has had some bad games ... hard to blame
    injuries on them though because Brady has had some great games played in alot of pain.

    As much as I do not want to dimish the feats of my Patriot hero Grogan.

    I must give the nod to Brady ... that shot to the back would have left
    Grogan out for a series or two if not a game or two...Brady took a shot that would have knocked many QB's out of the game ... and played like he had never been hit when he came back.

    Speaking of tough ... bet Brady was tougher than Brian Holloway, Ken Sims, Eugene Chung, and Pat Harlow and Max Lane also.
  2. Box_O_Rocks

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    Grogan had to be tougher running on those knees. Let's hope we never have to find out if Tommy is as tough, he certainly has the testicular fortitude to stand in and take a hit.
  3. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    2 different era of football, hard to compare the 2 .. But both displayed the fire and the passion for the game, where the last 2 Qb's that wore number 11 ,were more concerned what they looked like on the field.. Brady is a better Qb, but you cant compare the toughness,because they played in 2 different era's of football.
  4. Patriotic

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    I followed the Pats very closely back in the Grogan days (Grogan's Heroes" as the Globe once called them). As far as "toughness" both Grogan and Brady are warriors on the football field.

    But to directly compare the two as QBs which in the end you have since toughness is such a broad term. Grogan was an above average QB, Brady is a great QB. That's a huge difference. Whether its mental toughness, physical toughness, leadership, ect , Brady is far superior.

    Like you, FBN, I did always admire Steve Grogan.
  5. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    I will admit, Grogan was my hero as young pat fan growing up.
  6. Number Cruncher

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    Tom Brady chews nails and spits nickels...

    Oh wait, that's Chuck Norris.....
  7. IcyPatriot

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    What made me think of the comparison is because later in his career
    Grogan became a decent pocket passer. Like Brady, he would stay in there and take the hit to deliver the ball. Funny, Grogan was a much better runner than Brady will ever be but Grogan never moved around the pocket like Brady...only now do analysts truly understand that talent. How many times I shouted at the TV for Grogan to slide forward or left or right just a bit ... he never heard me.
  8. IcyPatriot

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    I was Grogan when we played touch football. Everyone wanted to be Staubach or some other Cowboy ... I stayed loyal to Grogan...I was the only Patriots fan with my friends and in my grade at school.
  9. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    Grogan to Morgan, those were the days.. I remember Techmo Bowl , and I was always the Pats...They had Marc Wilson , but still was the pats and Grogan
  10. FirstAndGoal

    FirstAndGoal Rookie

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    Grogan was one tough SOB. I'm not sure many quarterbacks would want to play with the Pats back then. Eliminate most of the rules to protect the QB and eliminate some linemen and you have Grogan standing back there for a pass. He ran when he first got into the league but once his knees got destroyed, he had to stand there and take it. Grogan was a great Patriot.
  11. BigMike

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    Your last line is classic: this is one of the best posts ever! As a long time Pats fan, Tommy puts these guys to shame....wonder if the weight of his three rings hurts his knuckes! As someone who suffered through the TOny Eason "skirt" era, I worship Tom Brady - you know the dude us suffering back pain and bruising from that ILLEGAL hit. Not to mention Jakc Delduechbags comments! JEASLOUSY of our Number 12 IS AT AN ALL TIME HIGH.
  12. rabthepat

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    Grogan was tougher by 10 miles!!!!!!!! Think neck brace!!!!!!
  13. Gumby

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    I don't think anyone who lived through and became Patriots fans in the Grogan era can think there is any question.

    Grogan is by far one of the toughest and most determined guys to play the game. He threw his body around, broke his leg and continued to play and did anything it took to stay in the game.


    There are other measurables where Brady beats him. Toughness is not it. Brady is certainly WAY MORE TALENTED. Not just at passing, but cerebrally in dissecting/recognizing defenses. That ability coupled with his better physical moves in the "short game" (for lack of a better description) has meant that he hasn't suffered the kinds of punishment Grogan took. I mean by "short game" that he is elegant moving around in the pocket; knowing exactly how to step up, anticipating the pass rush and moving to avoid it and lessen both the number and ferocity of hits.

    Another reason Brady is better is due to his conditioning and body stature. When he came into league he was thin like Grogan. Grogan never bulked up. Brady did and all the meat he added has really insulated him and allowed him to take some really hard hits and bounce back up. Some of this is just better conditioning/training techniques in the 90s/2000s and some is again his mental toughness where he forces himself to workout.

    Brady will probably double the consecutive # of games played that Grogan had (whatever it was). But anybody who thinks Grogan wasn't the physically tougher of the two is either using a different definition of the word or just doesn't remember/never saw Grogan in action.
  14. primetime

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    Grogan played an entire year with a neck brace. He is one of the toughest players of all-time. Brady is tough as nails, but he's no Grogan in that category. The hernia thing was pretty bad, though, especially considering the same injury knocked McNabb out for the rest of the year when he got one.
  15. DarrylS

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    Grogan was tough, and cannot take that away from him.. But there was always something about him I did not like, he did not have the magic of #12.. too many interceptions and too many boneheaded decisions. While some view him as a deity, I view him as a pretty good quarterback who played on a lot of lousy teams. Tom Brady is a completely different story, not as athletic, but plays the game better. When it comes to toughness, difficult to compare, different times and different personnnel.
  16. Drewwho

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    Both guys are tough. However, I know players today are much bigger and faster than they were during Grogan's days.

    Both have played with injuries and you are hard pressed to think of an off season without Brady having some kind of surgery? Don't remember Grogan having surgery, but that is only because I can't remember it. I am sure Grogan did since I do clearly remember him playing hurt.

    The other major factor here is the information. How many injuries did or does Brady have that we will NEVER know about. The Pats under BB is the NFL version of the Pentagon - little to know information is leaked. But I do remember hearing about all of Grogans pains and I do remember Grogan talking openly about playing hurt or in pain. That is not a knock on Grogan, it is just the way it was back then.

    Just because we don't hear about more injuries or pain with Brady, it doesn't mean that more injuries don't exist. Brady's injuries are just not in our face as much as they were with Grogan therefore this is not a fair arguement. Remember the quite visible grapefruit on Brady's elbow in 2002???? It was the size of a small country and BB nor Brady would even acknowledge it -and that was visible!

    Jury says - Both Guys are Nails Tough!
  17. 40yrpatsfan

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    Grogan was a running back at heart. At Kansas, he carried several hundred times. In his first couple of years in NE, it was common to see them call QB sweeps. He was a natural, fluid, tough runner who put his head down and move a pile like any RB would.

    His knee injuries forced him to change his style, but any discussion of toughness has to include that aspect of his game and demeanor.
  18. 40yrpatsfan

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    I looked up some rushing stats on Grogan:

    - he holds the NFL record for scoring 12 TD's in one season
    - is 4th all time in career rushing TD's for a QB
    - is 3rd overall in Pats history for rushing TD's (including all RB's)
    - in a 4-yr stretch, he averaged 66 carries and 407 yards, including 539 yds in 1978
    - he was an option QB at Kansas State - couldn't find his stats, I'm sure they're amazing

    This is what he had to say one time about his running:

    "I was a pretty good athlete. We ran the ball a lot in high school, and while at Kansas State we ran the option offense. So I really didn't know much about the passing game when I came in the league, and suddenly halfway through my rookie year I was starting for a National Football League team. I really didn't have any idea of what I was doing out there; I was just having fun. I'd drop back and if my first or second options weren't there, I'd take off and run with it because it was something I had done most of my football career. I did that the first four or five years, then I had knee problems. I think one of the things I'm most proud of is that I was able to adapt my skills from being a running quarterback to a pocket passer later in my career when my running ability had diminished".
  19. buile

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    To this day, I respect Grogan's guts. He stood in there, with a defender running at him full speed in his line of sight, just to complete a pass that was important to the game. He took the big hit to complete the pass, where other QBs shied away. Whether he completed the pass is a different story... :) but it was a life-lesson for a kid like me watching him play.
  20. scott99

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    Brady is one tough son of a gun, but Grogan is the toughest Patriot I've ever seen. As far as a QB, Brady is way better, but toughness, nobody was tougher than Grogan.

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