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Is Brady actually choking?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Early in his career, Brady appeared to be an amazingly clutch QB. Maybe this was a small-sample-size illusion. Maybe this was an artifact of him being better in the kinds of shotgun sets used in 2-minute drills. Maybe, in fact, there is no such thing as clutchness.

    But there definitely is such a thing as choking. And in recent postseasons, both by the numbers and the eye test, Brady would appear to be doing it.

    Counterarguments might start: He's only one member of the team. Opponents are better in the postseason. Opponents gameplan more aggressively in the postseason. And the sample size is again small.

    Still, I lean to the theory that part of the problem is actual choking. Whether he's choking more in the face of pressure games or just in the face of excellent gameplans, I couldn't say. But both mentally and in his throwing accuracy, Brady seems to be way off his usual standards, in one big game after another.
  2. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Nope. Receivers not open. You need some guys that can catch the ball when covered. Gronk is one of those guys, Lloyd was supposed to be one of those guys, but it never really worked out.

    Look at the Ravens--Flacco throws the ball all the time into coverage, but he has big physical targets that make the play. That's the difference. Not "clutchness"
  3. PATRlOT

    PATRlOT Banned

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    Absolutely NOT.

    I've said this several times and I'll say it again:

    This is the farthest thing from an excuse, but the Patriots have been purely UNLUCKY.
    From the Tyree catch in 07/08, to a Welker drop in the SuperBowl last year. Had those 2 PLAYS gone the other way, you could EASILY argue the Patriots would have won the game, and Tom Brady would have 5 SuperBowls.

    The injuries have also been unbelievably bad. Gronk last year of course (IMO we'd won the SuperBowl with him healthy. That INT definitely wouldn't happen) And then Gronk & Talib this year once again when it matters most (they are top 3 guys on their respective sides of the ball) We can only go so far with our top guys out of the game, and constantly having to adjust.

    EDIT: And did you NOT watch the SuperBowl last year? He set a record for 16 straight completions, and was within 1 play of winning after taking the worst defense to ever make it to the SuperBowl. WRs and no-name guys playing on our D last year! He also has the most yards in playoff history and most wins in playoff history. He's simply lacked help. Montana had how many hall of famers alongside him? 5-7? How many do you think Brady will have had after his career is done? Maybe 3 including Moss and his own coach?!
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I didn't think Brady played bad at all.

    The only criticism i have is with time management and a few missed throws. Other than that he was let down by drops, Ridley getting knocked out, Solder's holding on 3rd and 2.

    Then you have guys like Branch who do absolutely nothing and a running game that was getting stuffed in the red zone.

    Just a disappointing end to a season once again.
  5. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Definite Brady misplays:


    • Time management at the end of the first half.
    • Several missed throws (some badly).
    • Botched scramble (not the hit the ref one -- that was bad luck).
    While it's tough to tell from the TV, I further suspect he overlooked a bunch of open receivers (and not just ones wildly out of his progressions). If so, that adds up to a lot of poor plays, both physically and mentally.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Teams finally know how to play against Brady; they know his strengths and weaknesses well. That's the disadvantage of being a highly experienced QB. I don't think Brady has lost much as a QB, it's just that our opponents have a deeper understanding of how he plays, what he does well, and what he does not do so well.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  7. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    Tough to play when you don't have receivers.

    Christ look at Flacco. 3rd and 9 Boldin blanketed and he just throws the ball in the air - Boldin comes down with it.

    In the end-zone Boldin completely blanketed -i'll throw it in the air anyway.

    Brady can not allow himself that kind of luxury. He doesn't have much to work in that regard. Even the TD he had was based on scheming. God forbid he have somebody that actually beats his man straight up.
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Welker, Hernandez, Lloyd isn't chopped liver.
  9. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    Playoff games always come down to a couple small plays. The team that executes wins. The Patriots recently have not executed in the pressure situations.

    You can blame personnel, play-calling, injuries, scheme, or Pollard... but it still comes down the execution. The players on the field in the second half had plenty of chances to turn the game around. They didn't and the Ravens did.
  10. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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  11. Big-T

    Big-T On the Roster

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    OP is a spoiled fan one player can't do the job of 45, 2nd thread of the day already going on ignore.
  12. pats_premi

    pats_premi Rookie

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    No. Brady and the patriots offense has limitations and smart teams know how to play against them.
  13. Triumph

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    Blanketed by McCourty who is useless and only playing there because Chung stinks more.

    I wish Brady could throw against Arrington, McCourty and DBs like Cole.
  14. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

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    on one of the pre-game shows I heard a stat that seemed interesting

    Getting the ball out 3 seconds or less, Brady had an 84% completion percentage. If he's forced the hold it to 3.1 seconds or more, his completion percentage was 49%.

    I was shocked when i heard that 3.1/49%.
  15. jsull87

    jsull87 Rookie

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    I understand this reaction. But the reality is, Gronk was out, Welker has had now 2 key drops in big moments in playoff games both of which could possibly have changed bradys legacy. Having Branch out there is just so poor as he can't get separation to save his life he's basically just another body.

    In my opinion Brady has made enough plays the past 2 years to have won both these playoff games. I just think since 07 we have been shown how lucky we were winning 3 SB's like we did and how hard it is to do again.
  16. b72s

    b72s Rookie

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    I ask whether his left knee is so bad he either needs surgery or?.....
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Meh. I think thats true for most good QBs. If the ball isn't out in 3 seconds than the 3rd and 4th options are now the primary options.

    No- I do not think Brady is choking. Could he have been better here and there? Sure. People forget that from 01-04 the team didn't put up 30 a game on a regular basis but they sure could stop teams when they had to.

    I also do not think Brady has regressed as a QB.

    If the 2001-2004 defenses were on the field they do not give up 21 unanswered point to the Ravens...no way no how.
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    Its a young mans game.

    Brady might get back and win another SB, but look whose sitting home? Manning and Brady are both mid 30's. Flacco is 27 and Kapernick is in his 2nd season.

    When I see Brady sitting on the bench with his head down, I have to think that the hits are taking their toll physically and psychologically.
  19. Soadisthebest

    Soadisthebest Rookie

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    the only physical mismatch this team has is gronk, and when he's out the offense is all purely based on scheme. hernandez is big but he isn't a burner, so when he's put on the outside against a good corner he's basically just another welker.
    i mean this team has no legitimate outside threat, and once playoff time comes around, your best offensive weapon is out, and the winds are 30 mph the defense can just stuff the middle knowing you won't even bother throwing deep because no one can get the jump balls or create some separation. you can't blame brady for something he does not control.
  20. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    I don't know if choke is the right word. I would say he plays nervous these days.
    The mental aspect of Tom Brady's game is what has changed.
    That boondoggle at the end of the 1st half was such a prime example.
    1st and 10 from the 10 yd line with 20+ secs left in the half, can't find anyone open so Tom runs, he actually RUNS for 3 yds ON FIRST DOWN rather than throwing the ball away and saving time and he then compounds the original mistake and let's the clock run down before calling a TO with something like 4 secs left.
    That is a mental breakdown. That is a player being completely unaware of the game situation. A QB who was once so Joe Cool he had frost on his helmet has now morphed into a nervous Nellie.
    UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!
    Brady no longer elevates his game in the biggest moments, the biggest games.
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