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Is Ashworth worth what Seattle paid?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Bostonian1962, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    I see alot of you say that Givens isn't worth $5M a season, and 34 year old Willie Mac is not worth $4M per season, I agree. But should the Patriots have matched the reported 5 year $13.5M ($4.5M in 2006 w/ the bonus) for Tom Ashworth!

    I am undecided, but am interested in what you all think.
  2. tatepatsfan

    tatepatsfan Rookie

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    I think of it this way. Is Tom Ashworth worth what he was paid by Seattle? Yes. But think of how he came along here. He was a UDFA, played a couple years in the system before seeing any time, and then played well. We have a line that goes about 7 men deep right now, add one FA and maybe either a draft pick or someone from the PS (like Ashworth did) and we have our 9. So I think for us it wouldn't have made sense to pay him that, even though he is worth it, because we can do just as well without spending that money.
  3. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    Looks like the Seahawks want a starter and paid him as such. I like to pull for the guy who does better than anyone expects and Ash did that here. Best of Luck to him and I wouldn't mind facing him next year in the SB.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  4. Digger44

    Digger44 Rookie

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    Sure, why not. He has rings. A loss to us? Depthwise yes, but replaceable.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Me, I wouldn't have paid Ashworth $2.7M a year, including $4.5M in 2006 if we didn't have Light and Kaycur; but that's just me. Maybe I like the way we pay our OL's, but I'd rather have Gorin at $0.7M than Ashworth at $2.7M and use the money elsewhere, perhaps on a 1st or 2nd round OT. In addition, Ashworth has had injuries. Personally, I don't think that Ashworth is close to being worth that kind of money.

  6. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is Ashworth worth what Seattle paid?

    To Seattle, apparently. To us, no.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Belichick is assembling a line that is more mobile than past years. Athletic big men capable of getting out and blocking beyond the line. Ashworth was better than good for what we paid him before . But, I didn't see him as a fixture on this line...even as a backup he doesn't fit the mold Belichick is trying to form.

    I believe Belichick wants a line that he can expand upon Weiss's playbook.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  8. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I'm shocked by the responses in this thread. The Seahawks overpaid by a LOT for Ashworth. He's not nearly worth that deal. But I sure am happy for him. Good guy, thanks for the help, but you were fairly bad last year.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So ? Lots of Patriots do, that doesn't make them worth millions. Don Davis for example ?

    Ashworth (and Gorin) needed to be replaced at RT and hopefully Kaczur will do it with Light's return. The answer to the question ? Hell no.
  10. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A proven swing tackle who can play G, sure he's worth it. Did NE need him at that price, not with our current roster and the chance to get similar ability cheaper through the draft.
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I think Ashworth is worth $5 million.

    That's what I would have paid him to leave.

    The way he left Brady open on that Bailey INT, I would have a very hard time ever rooting for him again. He's up there with Buckner for me.
  12. PatsSteve1

    PatsSteve1 Rookie

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    I get the feeling that players are only worth what the Patriots are willing to pay them.
  13. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    Some GREAT ... punchy ... replies above.

    (But, upstater, you sound like one vindictive dude. Y'know, attitudes like yours sent poor Bill B.,
    a near .300 hitter lifetime ... to seek asylum in Idaho,
    for pity's sake!)
    I may be perverse and out-of-step in this ...

    but i wish Ash had signed that deal with Miami!

    Part of pro football is dueling f/o's. If we think he ain't worth the tab, then

    let the other guy sign him and burn up cap space,

    no longer available for someone else.

    In-conference, si ... div foes, still better!
  14. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    To me, Ashworth is a borderline starter. In 2003 he was a big part of our line. In 2005, he was below average. I was shocked that Seattle, clearly desperate in the wake of the Hutchinson deal, overpaid Ashworth and not Neal.
  15. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    O.K., I've read all the responses, chewed on them, put them up on charts and graphs, and have come to the conclusion that Tommy Ashworth was not worth to money to re-sign.

    Nice guy! Good commercials. But an oft-injured, former UDFA that should be chewing (that's the second time I've used a form of the word "chew" in one post - a new record for me) up cap space elsewhere.
  16. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    I think you've put your finger on the principle that can also be applied to Vinatieri, McGinest, Givens, (Law, Milloy, Bledsoe,) etc., etc.
  17. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I am not normally vindictive, and I understood that it wasn't Buckner's fault because the game had already been tied up by horrible errors before that.

    But...after the Denver game I realized I was one of the very few on this board who watched the line on the Bailey INT replay. I'm telling you, Tom Ashworth turned around our entire season...for the worse. Yeah, he might be a great guy, but the fact is, I'm not looking to make any friends. This is a sport, a past time, I don't live and die with it. When a player effs up royally, then I'm going to mention it. If I knew the man personally, of course I'd forgive him (unless I were Tom Brady). But I'm a fan. I get to say things like this.

    Just do me a favor. Get a hold of a replay of that play and watch Ashworth closely. I kid you not when I say you could have done a better job. If you were in their for Ashworth, the Patriots would have won the Super Bowl.
  18. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I don't doubt he's worth that to another team. He brings with him the credibiltiy of the organization and the work ethic that coaches hope will "infect" other players on the line.

    Much in the same way Romeo overpaid for Andruzzi...

    He is certainly not worth that much money to the Patriots. We'll promote a good lineman to replace him at half the cost, turn him into a great one and then he too will leave once another team overpays him.

    Meanwhile we'll use the cost savings to re-sign elite players like Seymour while spreading the rest to the high quality middle class players - who we will promote into starting spots when injury or free agency deplete our roster

    See how the system works? :)
  19. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    Maybe on that one play, but what about the other 56 offensive plays. Get a life!

    Yes, he misread the rush. Looks like he thought they would be blitzing from the outside. But that in "itself" did not cause the INT. I have seen Brady make great throws while getting hit, knocked down, and rushed, and in this case he made a poor throw and decision. He tried to force something that wasn't there. That is what makes Brady a great QB, but it bit him that time.

    If you seriously think this turned the entire season... for the worse, then you frankly didn't watch the entire year.
  20. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    You seem to be one of the more reasonable.

    It seems we have people that believe all of the Pats problems last year come down to a player or two. IMO, we have 2 maybe 3 players who are "irreplacable". The rest are all JAGs, which every team has plenty of. The physical talent level is miniscule between teams, and those that win are the ones who avoid injuries, turnovers, and play smart (and a little luck).

    BB will never pay lineman what some other teams will. He feels he can accomplish his goals using middle to late round picks, even non drafted players. With that said, I would bet Koppen and Light will not sign another contract here. They will be replaced with younger, less expensive players.

    So, back to the thread ???? No one (on this thread) knows if Ashworth will be worth his contract to Seattle. I would even say no one knows if Andruzzi is or was worth his contract at Cleveland, because no one on this thread knows his assignments, and probably didn't watch any of his games, and quite frankly, doesn't know when he is successful on a play and when he isn't. What does a player bring to lockerroom in intangibles???

    It's amazing to me how some people always blame the lineman when a mistake is made, even when they have no idea what that linemans assignment was. Performing well for 50-65 plays means nothing when you miss one block that causes a sack. And don't consider the fact that the other team pays it's players and coaches too, "our players are supposed to be perfect".

    With 53 players on a roster, and around a $100 million to spend, I would think any starter (and the Seahawks think Ash will start) would be paid above the average of around $1.9 mil, which his deal is $2.6 average over 5 years. Will this be a bargain in 3 or 4 years?? We will see.

    And next year Gorin will be the whippin boy because every team needs one, even though he earns a paltry $700K (which we all know is way too much, lol).
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  21. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Watch the play again. He had blockers on the line to the left of him. He was playing inside on that play. Misread the rush to the outside? Not possible. There were two defenders there. Watson had the outside. Ashworth had the inside guy. Brady called a roll out to the right!!! Why in the world would you double up the outside guy and just stand there and watch the inside guy blow through on a rollout to the right?

    It was also pretty obvious that Brady knew exactly what was going on because he threw the ball a split second before the jailbreak pass rusher hit him.

    And yes, that play ruined the whole season. We all know it did.

    I have a life, do you? Don't take yourself so seriously.
  22. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    Denver blitzed all day. Ashworth missed a pickup. Get over it. It didn't cost us the season (unless you are a simpleton.).
  23. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    So, the Bailey INT didn't cost us the game? It was GAME OVER right there. That cost us the season. Were it not for Ashworth's bonehead error, the Patriots would have gone ahead of Denver right then and there, perhaps won the game, and hosted Pittsburgh.

    You continue to miss the technical X and Os side of this. You keep saying Ashworth simply msised his assignment. You said he was expecting to take the outside guy. Well, if that's the case, how do you explain the fact that he had Patriots' blockers outside him on the line? How do you explain the fact that Brady was rolling out to the right, away from Ashworth's left shoulder? Unless you're a simpleton, what you're arguing simply makes no sense.

    Ultimately, I'm not even arguing that Ashworth missed his assignment. I'm saying he didn't try to block anyone. He stood there like a stiff. Didn't even move. He didn't move an inch or make any effort at all. He froze. He choked. I'm saying the guy sucks. As in, he has no ability. I'd take Max Lane over Ashworth any day.
  24. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    There's no point in arguing with an idiot that would make a statement like this.
  25. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    Making judgements about a player based on 1 play is truly rational. You are so much smarter than Holgrem, Pioli, and every other professional in the NFL. I guess BB has a hotline direct to you to get your input whenever he needs it.

    What a joke.
  26. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    And yet you chose to argue.

    I assume that anybody in Ashowrth's position would have done something. Dropped to the ground. Rolled over. Anything. Flinched. That would have been more than what Ashworth did.

    He sucks. But I guess you can't say that anymore because of touchy-feely sensitive fans like you. This is football. I'm sure he's been told he sucks before. You're taking more offense at it than he would.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  27. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I'm going to have to agree with you on that one. Ashworth sucks.
  28. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    where you at, texpat?

    i grew up in houston, TP.
    am an expatriot living unhappily in new england, have been here for a long time now.
    funny, i still think of myself as 'a texan living in new england', not a new englander. must be the barbecue. you can't find any worth eating north of times square. i know i've tried.
    tell me where you are, how'd ya wind up following the paaats.
  29. texpat

    texpat Rookie

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    It's funny how awhile back you said "you just don't go for the QB's knees", in regards to C. Palmer, sounds like that's coming from a touchy-feely sensitive fan.

    So I'm confused, IS THIS FOOTBALL or do you enjoy talking out of both sides of your mouth?
  30. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Yeah, I enjoy it when people dive at Brady's knees, but I hate it when people say crappy players suck. That's me. :snob:

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