Is a torn rotator cuff really season-ending?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by captain stone, Sep 1, 2010.

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  1. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    After reading every post in both the Bodden to IR and the Secondary threads,
    I'm a little surprised that the above question hasn't been asked.

    Is it because the injury is so debilitating that even a CB, who tackles less than any member of the defense,
    cannot play with it and not experience ineffectiveness to the point of uselessness?

    Has any CB started the season with a torn rotator cuff and finished the entire season?

    How long is the recovery time? If it's no longer than 6-9 weeks,
    then why not save a roster spot for Bodden and have him avail. for the post-Thanksgiving stretch run?

    Why not wait another few days, maybe get a second opinion, before deciding to IR him?
    Bill's obviously giving OxyKaczur every chance to play this year, so why not Bodden?

    Inquiring minds want to know.
  2. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I tend to think there are many variables here..NO there will be others that will have the info..But it's going to be a longer time for one playing football to get back to thing to work in a desk job post recovery ANOTHER to depend on arms shoulder to play football. My guess is they know it will take 2 plus months and then some...I am sure they weighed all options and if there was ANY hope of a return would not have IRed him. Kaczur ALREADY had his surgery and I think they will know at some point if there's a shot of him returning or not. Different injury different variables..different player and position..apples oranges..
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  3. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    I'm pretty sure Mr. Bodden engages in activities that require overhead movement. So 3 to 4 months, depending.

    Rotator Cuff Injuries - - Orthopedics and Sports Medicine
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I think everyone is simply assuming, quite reasonably, that a team doesn't shut down its #1 corner for the season without good reason. The IR designation indicates it's the kind of tear that requires surgery, in which case the projection is measured in months, not weeks.

    That said, I'm no fan of the current IR system. Come on NFL, help teams put a better product on the field come playoff time! Offer an 8-game IR provision. To prevent abuse, just don't start eligibility until after game 1, and require that the player be placed on the 53 for the game immediately following the IR period.
  5. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

    #24 Jersey

    Great suggestion. Back in the day, was it not possible for a player to return from IR?
  6. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I believe there was a time many years ago that IR was not season ending..or later even when there was a LIMIT on IRed players or when one could TRY and bring a player back but they had to go through can NOT remember who they tried to bring back that way..early 80s..but it was a GOOD player and he was picked up..gone.) I do agree that IR rules need to be looked at ESPECIALLY if this 18 game baloney is going to be shoved down the fans throats. NOT sure of the particulars of how to do it so teams do NOT STASH players there, but I am sure it can be done so that legitimately injured players can return LATER in the year. (AND this is besides keeping players on the 53..which is what BB has done before at times...Johnson, Washington, Light, Branch etc...)
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    Google is your friend. Inquiring minds should try it. We don't know if his injury was a full thickness traumatic tear or the result of prior injury and use degrading the tendon over time. Either way for an athlete hoping to return to full function with no further damage to a repairable tendon your looking at 8-12 weeks of recovery and rehab before you can even commence returning to the kind of activities that would expose the shoulder to that level of activity again... The inability to even lift weights for probably 3 months would probably preclude any potential for a comeback in season.

    Summary - Repair of Rotator Cuff Tears: Surgery for shoulders with torn rotator cuff tendons can lessen shoulder pain and improve function without acromioplasty.
  8. blackglass3

    blackglass3 Supporter Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    Hopefully, if they are angling for an 18 game schedule they will also help with IR rules and roster sizes.
  9. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #87 Jersey

    I have never had this injury, but I am guessing reaching up to swat a ball or tie up a reciever might be pretty painful.

    Not to mention laying your shoulder into a runner or a pile.
  10. juxtapoz15

    juxtapoz15 Supporter Supporter

    #54 Jersey

    Could another option have been to put him on PUP? I don't remember the rules exactly, isn't it for the first 6 games and you get to use his roster spot. So let's say he is out for 3 months at least half of it you would be able to use his roster spot.
  11. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

    Depending on the severity it could take him up to a year to be anywhere near 100%. Like everyones saying too many variables but I would assume hes getting top notch advice and care.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  12. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #95 Jersey

    No, PUP is not an option because he practiced. As soon as you participate even in one practice, you are then uneligible for PUP. IR or taking up a roster spot were the only options for Bodden
  13. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    the good news is that Wheatley is probably closer to coming back and wasn't put on IR. In rookies we trust!
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  14. Gunnails

    Gunnails In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    Chad Pennington played with a torn rotator cuff and beat SD in the playoffs a few years back, but then again Chad is not your average player, most would of not been able to play.

    With Chad he had to have surgery and it was basically a 8 month rehab.
  15. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams I'm no Mona Lisa Vito.... Supporter

    #75 Jersey

    Think about it, a CB is useless if he can not jam a WR. If you have a torn rotator cuff, you are not only not going to be as fluid as you need to be in pass coverage, you won't be able to jam anyone.

    This is a tough loss, so much for my How many DBs do the Pats need rant on draft day.
  16. Gwedd

    Gwedd Supporter Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    I tore mine last October, and it is ony now that I am getting close to a full range of movement. Granted, I didn't have access to all the PT and support that an NFL player has, but it takes awhile.

    I'll say this much, for the first couple of months, I couldn't even raise my left arm higher than being level with my shoulder. That was it. When it happened, and until it got fixed, the pain was tremendous when I tried to do certain things. When the arm was basically motionless, or hot raised yo high, it wasn't bad at all. Anything else, though, and you knew it right away.

    How some guys play without having the area shot up with cortisone or others meds is beyond me. I had a pretty high paint threshold from previous injuries, but this one was a whole new experience, at least for someone trying to stay active.

  17. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Thanks for the responses, and link. Unfortunately, because Bill will prob. never tell us just how severe Bodden's injury is, we'll prob. never know if an 8-12 week/3 month recovery, which would poss. have had him avail. after Thanksgiving, is the actual prognosis.

    And I too completely agree with the absurdity of IR being season-ending, at any time, all of the time.

  18. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 In the Starting Line-Up

    I always thought the IR rules were ridiculous. Why punish a team and player by not letting a player return when they are fully healed? There's absolutely no reasonable argument against allowing players to come of the IR at some point. I think they need to tweak the rule and make it more like the DL in baseball, set several time intervals for the IR (1 month increments?).
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    That 8-12 week recovery would be to be able to even begin to train for football activity again...not to play. And the severity of the tear doesn't really change the equation any more than whether your ACL implodes due to traumatic injury or a misstep. Once you require surgery to repair it the basic rehab becomes essentially the same. The only difference between a traumatic full tear rotator cuff injury and a chronic wear and tear injury to the rotator cuff is in the long term prognosis likelhood you ever return to full function or the tendon will ever withstand the level of use sports entails since degraded tendons don't heal as well or as thoroughly.

    My cousin's husband tore his rotator falling on ice. Couldn't drive for a couple of weeks (lots of simple activities are restricted for the first 2-4 weeks. They were pretty agressive with his therapy because he's a carpenter. He couldn't go back to work for almost 6 months because of the nature of his employment. No heavy or overhead lifting, no repetitive over the shoulder motion. He had to be medicated for rehab sessions for the first month or so. The shoulder has to be manipulated painfully in therapy to break up scar tissue and insure there will ever even be full range of motion again. If you reinjure it or it doesn't heal properly you are screwed because you're either permanently impaired or you're back to square one with a diminished shot at ever correcting the situation permanently.

    Guys will attempt to play through a small tear or fray. That may have been Randy's situation last season. Sometimes those can heal well enough over time with rest to restore relatively normal function. It is one of those injuries that can nag and become worse and degrade over time especially if cortizone injections are used to manage it. Pedro pitched with a frayed rotator for a coupe of seasons, but those season's saw his performance become increasingly spotty. He finally had the surgery but it was too late basically because the shoulder continued to dog him. That is often the case when a chronic injury degrades over time and repair isn't undertaken early on. A full tear isn't manageable, period.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    The answer, apparently, is yes.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
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