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Is 2nd Rd better than 1st?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BPF, Apr 20, 2007.

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  1. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    Maybe we should trade down from #28 and pick up a 2nd/additional 3rd.

    http://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/1382359/detail.html

    Sometimes second round better than the first

    Apr.19, 2007
    NEW YORK (AP) -- A year ago, the Houston Texans bypassed the electric Reggie Bush and ignored hometown hero Vince Young to use the first pick in the NFL draft on defensive end Mario Williams. After a 6-10 season, they hear about it every day -- more often as this year's draft approaches.

    But the Texans still can brag about last year's draft -- because of linebacker DeMeco Ryans, taken with the first pick of the second round. While Williams was bothered by injuries and made little impact, Ryans was the NFL's defensive rookie of the year. He was second in the league with 155 tackles, had 31/2 sacks and developed into the leader of the defense, if not the team's leader.

    It's too bad everyone focuses on the first round. Too bad, because almost as many stars emerge from the second round as the first, from Brett Favre in 1991 and Michael Strahan two years later to Ryans and Devin Hester last season....

    http://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/1382359/detail.html
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2007
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Look at the Patriots #1 picks vs. their #2 in the Belioli era and your answer for us is NO.
  3. chowder

    chowder Rookie

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    this seems to be true for us in recent years, although i can think of people like deion branch and ted johnson and lawyer milloy that were pretty good second rounders that we have drafted in the past. Not sure why Belioli hasn't had as much luck with those second rounders. lol
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
  4. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    The verdict is still out for Chad Jackson but here are the picks in the Belichick-Pioli era:

    2006: Chad Jackson #36 WR Florida
    2005: No pick
    2004: Marquise Hill #63 DE Louisiana State
    2003: Eugene Wilson #36 DB Illinois and Bethel Johnson #45 WR Texas
    2002: Deion Branch #65 WR Louisville
    2001: Matt Light #48 T Purdue

    2000: Adrian Klemm #46 T Hawaii

    I would say we have done quite well. 7 total players: 3 hits, 1 jury still out.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The question was whether the 2nd round is better than the first.

    2000 No #1
    2001 Light vs. Seymour. 1st round wins.
    2002 Graham vs. Branch. 2nd rouns wins. Some may disagree.
    2003 Warren vs. Wilson. 1st round wins.
    2004 Wilfork/Watson vs. Hill. 1st round wins.
    2005 No #2. But Mankins was a hit.
    2006 Maroney vs. Jackson. 1st round wins.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    San Diego, Pittsburgh and New England probably do the best job out there of looking past potential and putting more weight on what a guy actually accomplished and how he projects into their respective teams.
    I think BB can look at tape of a guy and know if he can or can not play for his team. Once he sifts through and finds the ones that can, he then quizzes them in the video room for intelligence and for those still ieligible, he does his due dilligence for character and background.
  7. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Another thing to consider before trading out of the first round. Under the CBA 1st round picks can sign for 5 yrs. If you're drafted after the 1st round the longest you can sign a pick for is 4 yrs. Might afffect our decision. I'd love to get an extra 3. But, the rules have changed. IMO it increases the value of those late 1st round picks. If there's a run on olb's; Poz,Timmons and Beason. I think those 3 are 4-3 olb's. Maybe, the Bears would trade up to 24. I'd definately consider that 24-31. Pick up their 3rd. Maybe give them the 6 we got from Ariz.
  8. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    With Seymour and Warren we are talking #6 and #13 overall picks, maybe I should have been more specific and said late 1st Rd picks. There is a new dynamic involved now with the 5 and 4 year contracts that also needs to be considered. Overall though our 2nd Rd choices have been solid and we do have 2 1st Rd picks so I was weighing that in trading out of the 1st. We would not be trading out completely, only pick #28. Since we have no 2nd I was looking to pick one up while also picking up an additional 3rd but of course we need to see who is on the board at that pick.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Even without the length of contract and ignoring Seymour and Warren, the group of Wilfork (21), Maroney (21), Graham (21), Watson (32), Mankins (32) is still just better and more consistent.

    If you want to argue that whatever we get in the trade makes up the difference, great. But the question of "Is 2nd Rd better than 1st?" has an easy answer. No.
  10. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    Light (Pro Bowl), Branch (SB MVP) and Wilson are solid players and if you remove Seymour and Warren from the equation it's even. As a matter of fact I strongly believe we could have drafted both Watson and Mankins in the second if we decided to trade down those years. If you recall most were calling them "reaches" at the time. Graham, Wilfork and Maroney are not considered late 1st round picks. I should have added last 1st to subject line (picks 26-32).

    Both 1st Rd and 2nd Rd picks have been solid in the Belichick and Pioli era. I was trying to dispel the notion that we have drafted poorly in the 2nd Rd with the picks breakdown.
  11. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    Round 1 has been kind to us..Beioli know how draft and its been proven.

    Round 1 > Round 2 by a lot

    keep in mind round 2 has been eh to us: Bethel Johnson, Marquise Hill...CJ is still a work in progress while Round 1 hasnt had a bust really

    Seymour - pro bowler
    Warren - borderline pro bowler(tremendous player)
    Wilfork - close to being a pro bowler..1 of our best players
    Watson - inconsistent but has done a lot for us and will only get better
    Graham - injuries slowed him down a bit but a top blocker..underrated receiver
    Maroney - featured back..load of talent..will be a top 5 back in league soon

    Round 2:
    Johnson - speedster..traded..nothing ever amounted besides a good KR early on

    Hill - hasnt seen field..cant get playing time in any way..hes a goner soon
    Wilson - he was tremendous early..then declined wether injuries or inconsistency at safety position because injuries
    Branch - idk..Brady made him better than he really was. He played big in big games but his hands werent tremendous .. his quickness and big games in playoffs made him a real good player for us
    Light - We can argue hes had his ups and downs and Graham helped him al ot..many shocked he made pro bowl as alternate this year but hes a good run blocker..struggles at times verse speed rushers.

    Round 1 > Round 2..no matter where we picked
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    No it's not. That's silly.

    Hill's been a bust. Where's the round one bust ?
    Wilson has been more bust than not although he's had his moments. Where's the round one equivalent ?
    Bethel, see Wilson.
    Jackson vs. Maroney right now ? Duh.

    Jeez.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
  13. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    It bugs me when a journalist makes a claim like "almost as many stars emerge from the second round as the first," then illustrates it by...giving a handful of examples of good players taken in round two.

    Hello, you made a claim about a comparison. You prove it by comparing the two things. You can't say "blue cars are more common than red cars, and I can prove it: look, there's a blue car!" It would be mighty easy to actually go through recent drafts and check off the number of star players chosen in each round. But of course, that might -- *gasp* -- disprove your claim. :rolleyes:

    Maybe I'm just skeptical about the article because of this section:

    ""First-rounders get big money and a lot of them hold out. Second-rounders are in camp right away and start working. A lot of them want to prove that they deserved to be in the first round. Or that they are better than the guys with the big names who got the big money."

    Ask the 5-foot-9 Branch, the last pick of the second round by New England in 2002.
    ...
    One reason he was traded by the Patriots to Seattle last season was his demand for the money he missed by not being a first-rounder. The receiver who replaced him with the Patriots, Reche Caldwell, was taken 17 picks earlier and isn't close in achievements to him: In five seasons, Branch has 266 catches for 3,469 yards and 18 TDs; the oft-injured Caldwell, drafted by San Diego, has 137 for 1,710 and 11.


    Umm, dude, Caldwell was a second-rounder too! But you wouldn't want to actually mention that, it would be too inconvenient to your thesis. Sigh.
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