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IRS "Turning Over Every Rock" to Raise Revenue: Obama Targeting Overseas Assets

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    U.S., UBS in Talks to Settle Case on 52,000 Accounts (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

    UBS AG, the largest Swiss bank by assets, is in talks with the U.S. government to settle a lawsuit seeking the names of 52,000 American account holders suspected of using Swiss secrecy laws to evade taxes.

    The bank agreed with the U.S. and Swiss governments to seek a settlement and postpone an evidentiary hearing today in a Miami courtroom, according to a court filing. The U.S. sued UBS on Feb. 19, a day after the bank agreed to pay $780 million to defer prosecution for helping wealthy Americans evade taxes.

    IRS "Turning Over Every Rock" to Raise Revenue Obama Targeting Overseas Assets: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance

    Repatriation: The Obama administration has discussed raising taxes on profits earned overseas by U.S.-based corporations.

    Flexing Muscles: The U.S. government will ask all nations to sign a "tax information exchange agreement," says Rubinstein, citing unnamed foreign government officials. He declined to specify but the attorney has advised Caribbean banking centers in the past. Smaller nations will have no choice but to acquiesce, Rubinstein says.

    Crackdown on Havens: Beyond the government's ongoing case against UBS, pending legislation declares "anybody who sends money to a ‘tax haven country' will be presumed to be committing tax fraud," Rubinstein says.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IF we used the "Steve Forbes" tax plan, it would reduce the federal government by thousands and eliminate any of this type of "cheating"...

    Apologies for the PBS link, but that is all I can find..

    Online NewsHour: Summary of Steve Forbes' Flat Tax Plan

  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, it's a great gimmick, but basically it would probably mean cutting the budget the half or more. After all, his tax plan includes no taxes on the first $36k, and then only 17% after that. No capital gains, no Social Security, etc.

    What do you propose cutting, especially given that some of our large costs are fairly fixed (veterans pensions, debt payments, etc.)?

    His tax plan is absolute nonsense, designed to trick people by being so low it sounds great.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It would cut the bloated bureaucracy of the IRS by about 50-60%.. that is a good start. It would also close a ton of loopholes..
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But, I have a feeling that tax would have to be closer to 50%. Besides, what evidence really is that IRS is bloated. It's budget is about $12 billion, which to manage probably 200 million accounts (including corporate taxes, etc.) doesn't seem outrageous. Even with a flat tax, you still have to address tax fraud -- namely, people not reporting income. A flat tax might save some money in terms of the IRS, but a very small amount relative to the federal budget.

    And, again, Forbes flat tax seems to assume 50% or more of what the federal government does is a waste. Shifting the burden back to the states will lead to a lot more corruption and incompetence. Whatever one things of the federal government, at least it has national organaizations, the media, and some transparency laws in place to try to keep it honest. The same is not true for most states. Even liberal Massachusetts only just passed the kind of ethics rules that have been in place in the federal government for quite a long time.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Great, thugs from the government deciding you're presumed guilty and you have to go to big expense to prove you're innocent. Good stuff.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed, it would also make the US a much for attractive place to invest, creating jobs which would be very useful these days.
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I think it's a great concept and one that should have been done years ago. I'm not sure with this Congress if it will reduce the budget ... especially with Pelosi in charge. But still a good concept. I'm still waiting for his promise of tax advantages for companies that manufacture in the United States ... I think he's taking too long on that one. Perhaps it will not have the impact of some others but just in the symbolism of made in America I think would be huge.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The flat tax is completely unfair. Consider what the flat tax is: Under Forbes plan, the peson who earns $1,000,000/year will pay 10x as much for the exact same services as someone who earns $100,000/year. The only truly fair tax is to have everyone pay the same flat dollar amount regardless of income. That would only be about $5,000 each (for every man woman and child) if we cut the budget in half, but of course some people don't have that money. Perhaps they could become indentured servants.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  10. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    Patters believes the government is 100% efficient......

    Darryl is spot on
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sadly congress won't do it because it reduces their ower to reward their supporters and unish their enemies. They would also be giving up the class envy card much beloved by politicans, so the corruption continues.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, in that regard my issue is the quite the opposite. One of the reasons I favor a strong federal government is because it's more transparent and vastly more monitored than state government. I have yet to see evidence of rampant inefficiency in government. I know that's a claim that people make time and again, but it's simply based on the desire to lower taxes, not any real evidence. Can the government do some things better? Of course. But, running a country the size of ours and maintaining a quality of life as good as ours is very expensive.
  13. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    nahhhh......the government is very inefficient.......really, it is........you can choose to not believe this, but there are no cost-benefit decisions made, so it is not possible for it to be efficient.......if the government was efficient, GM would have gone bankrupt last fall, saving the taxpayer 50 billion and would not have had to take 'ownership' of the company.....

    if the government was efficient, the big dig would not had gone from a 2 billion dollar project to a 15 billion dollar project (this just makes the actual number of 50B to GM even more mind-boggling)

    there is nothing efficient about the US government, there is nothing efficient about the state governments........their biggest task is to simply generate as much revenue as it takes for them to do what they want to do..........


    if government was efficient, the gvt-funded project would not go over.........if government was efficient, you would not have states running out of money before their fiscal calendars are at an end.....

    yes, governments are EXTREMELY inefficient
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    80% of debt is held by private individuals and corporations. Government holds only 20%.

    America's Total Debt Report - page 1 - by MWHodges

    That's state government where transparency is less, and people pay less attention. You don't have the major political organizations and MSM going after state government in the same way they go after federal government.

    That's a different question. Democracy might be inefficient. As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” But, I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that government programs run inefficiently. Of course, there are some programs that are inefficient, but that's to be expected in any large organization. On the other hand, you might object to some programs (such as earmarks), but again this is how democracy works.

    We are in rough agree with regard to state governments. When they were more powerful, every form of prejudice was in its heyday, right down to Governor's calling out National Guardsmen to protests, even shoot and kill union protesters.
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    You must be blind then. How's $11 TRILLION in nationa debt? How's a $1 TRILLION deficit this year alone, and we're not even past the summer. How's no year in the black since the 50's? Seriously, you must be blind. How's like $50 TRILLION in entitlements promises? How's that not rampant inefficiency?
  16. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    its the same with the federal governments.....even worse in regards to the frivolous projects people grab for their home states

    half of all federally funded projects have been to show no results......because nobody is paying attention and there is now way to track results for those programs.......you would have me believe that it is all efficient even though 40% of the half that is actually tracked is not efficient (either ineffective or adequate).........my lifes experience say the things left unchecked go from bad to worse

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy04/pdf/budget/performance.pdf

    so before anyone decides its time to tee off on the rich, maybe.....just maybe, the government needs to check itself for real.....because it is doing a crappy job.........and it is done in a bipartisan manner
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's the way our country operates. Corporations and individuals carry even more debt, and the government reflects the people.

    Identify some specific inefficiencies? Can you? What are you talking about? Where do you get a number like $50 trillion? That's simple sensationalism. Let's talk on an annualized basis.

    What do you think the government can do differently that will guarantee us a quality of life at least as high as the one we have now? Cutting back on subsidies to the needy, for instance, could lead to more crime and homelessness, and as a result house prices would drop even further, and more money would need to be spent on police, courts, and prisons. Do you have a solution?

    There are 37,000,000 Americans who live below the poverty line. That means a family of three lives on LESS THAN $16,000/year, and very often a lot less. That's the crisis that 25 years of Reaganism have created. Preventing that amount of poverty from erupting is very costly to the middle class.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    A strong (more like, big) federal government is a joke because they spend money without having a clue if it's needed. If the feds waste money on some project no-one will turn down the money but if it were at the local level they would know it should be spent on other stuff. That's one of the reasons we have so much waste, the feds send money out and the locals either spend it on that project or lose it. The feds should spend money only on federal stuff, defense, interstate highways, etc. Then they should butt out and let states, or, even better, locals spend money they really need.
  19. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    this is such garbage.....you have it backwards

    the big dig.....right off the bat.......then,

    Local News | Despite reforms, Congress hides $3.5B in defense earmarks | Seattle Times Newspaper

    Nation & World | Earmark helps businesses, not troops | Seattle Times Newspaper

    Politics | $4.5 million for a boat that nobody wanted | Seattle Times Newspaper

    and then:

    Statement on Earmark Reform


    the problem is that earmarks are made AFTER the spending level is determined for appropriations.......so they come up with an amount, THEN then select project until it is all spent...........there is nobody in the world that can say that that is an efficient way of doing things

    is that what the government should spend money on? just raise your hand for a handout?


    there was no poverty before reagan?


    I'm poor..........give me money.........its easier than working
  20. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    here's more on the perfect efficiency patters claims that the US government is:

    Citizens Against Government Waste:

    here's just a taste:

    $4,545,000 for wood utilization research in 10 states by 19 senators and 10 representatives. This research has cost taxpayers $95.3 million since 1985. One would think that after 24 years of research all the purposes for one of the world’s most basic construction materials would have been discovered.

    $41,500,000 for three projects funding presidential libraries: $22,000,000 by Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), and Reps. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.) and Edward Markey (D-Mass.) for the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston, Massachusetts; $17,500,000 by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), and Sens. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) for the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library in Hyde Park, New York; and $2,000,000 by Senate appropriator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas) for the Lyndon Baines Johnson Presidential Library in Austin, Texas. All three of these libraries received funding last year, bringing their combined two-year earmark total to $54,010,000. In addition, each library receives an annual operating subsidy from the National Archives and Records Administration; the JFK Library receives $3,883,000 annually, the LBJ Library receives $2,935,000 annually (and is the only presidential library that does not charge admission), and the FDR Library receives $1,640,000 annually.

    $39,700,000 by then-Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.), for the Advanced Training Center. Sen. Byrd also allotted $39,700,000 for the Advanced Training Center in fiscal year 2008, bringing the two-year total of funding to $79,400,000.

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