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Iraqis say: Life better than under Saddam

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Mar 18, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Iraqis: life is getting better
    Marie Colvin

    MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

    The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

    One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

    Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month. ...

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here are some more details of the poll:

    http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=67

    49% feel the country is close to or in a civil war, and 18% feel the country is a long way from one.

    The pdf file shows that only 1/3rd think the surge is to bring stabiity to Iraq, while a larger number think we're there for more sinister reasons (such as to invade Syria and Iran or to take out the Al-Maliki government).

    53% think the security situation will get better when the multinational force leaves Iraq.

    ***

    All said, the poll has some good news. That the Iraqis like the current system to Saddam's is no surprise, but certainly good news. That the Iraqis feel their security would be improve once the multinational force left is good news for those who want to bring the troops home, but bad news for those who who are stuck on Bush.
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Not sure what you're implying with your last editorialization on Bush, but the president has said that U.S. forces will be there only long enough to ensure a peaceful, stable government can exist. which understandably is what the Iraqi people want.

    Even Hillary says U.S. troops should stay until at least 2009. So this is just a back-handed jab at Bush and those who thinks he's not such a bad guy as he's been made out to be.


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  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, Fog, I think the troops should come home, as do the Iraqi people. I'm not saying we should pack up and leave tomorrow, but we should begin to phase down now, and put vastly greater emphasis into regional diplomacy. Bush took out Saddam, which was good for many Iraqis, but it will be many years before we know if it was good for the US. Right now, it's causing a lot of death and injury and seems to be strengthening the terrorists. Its quite apparent that the Iraqis don't trust us, given that only 1/3rd think the surge is designed to bring stability to Iraq. I think the future will have an Iraq allied with Iran, and our interests will not have been well served by this war.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Iraqi Holiday Ten Years Ago:

    Advertising Signs On Donkey's And Camels:

    Celebrate Saddam Day Come Early Bring A Lunch Events Start At 1:00 PM.

    1:00 PM Tongue Removal's
    2:00 PM Arm Amputation And Finger Nail Removal
    3:00 PM Four Beheadings, Two Females, Will Force Children To Watch

    4:00 PM Intermission

    5:30 PM Three Men To Be Thrown Off Roof (Watch Them Try To Fly)
    6:00 PM Main Event:
    Our Beloved Leaders Sons, Gootay And Dootay Will Rape And Sodimize Two Young Girls And Two Boys All Under The Age Of Ten The Childrens Parents Will Be Tied To Lawn Chairs With Tooth Picks Stuck In Their Eye Lids Forcing Them To Watch As Their Children Scream, Guns May Be Fired In The Air As Gootay And Dootay Have Their Orgasms, Don't Miss This One.

    GOD IS GREAT DEATH TO AMERICA.
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You had me up to this point.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Huh? You want the troops to stay? I didn't think you were a war hawk.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    If Iraq is a thriving free nation it will. When Iranians see a free people to their left, they will demand the same.
  9. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    This might indicate its time to declare victory and come home. But you and I and everyone who has watched each and every opportunity to do just that come and go knows, it won't happen until Bush can pass this fiasco off to his successor.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Isn't it free now? What isn't free about Iraq? They've been liberated from authoritarian rule...what else needs to be done?

    I love it how the right wants it both ways. They want to claim success and failure at the same time, so that Bush has political approval but yet we can stay indefinitely anyhow.

    Very interesting insight as to where their true motives for staying in Iraq lie, and I'll tell you...it hasn't a thing to do with terrorism.
  12. Harry Boy

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    I will have to say this for Saddam, if they had let him live and restored him to power and we had pulled all of our toops out Saddam would have had those f-cking animals straightend out in 6 months, things would have returned to normal (beheadings, rapes, amputations, women beaten and made to ride in the back seat)

    Those people would be happy as pigs in sh!t right now.
    GOD IS GREAT DEATH TO AMERICA
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2007
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope you're right, but I do not think so. Iran, by the way, is a free nation, but it has a very conservative set of laws. At least there last elections were considered fair. Democracy doesn't necessarily ensure that a country become civilized. Hitler, for instance, was elected.
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I meant that everything you said after that I disagreed with.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hmm. I'm not sure what you're referring to that was so objectionable? You disagree with starting a phased pullout now? You disagree with diplomacy? You disagree with my contention that the Iraqis don't trust us? You disagree that the war ultimately will be shown not to have served our interests? I mean, I know I'm a liberal, but it doesn't mean we can't have some common ground, wistah. I promise I won't call you a liberal.
  16. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Survey courtesy of Diebold machines ;-)

    Remember, your vote counts!!!!
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Don't know *which* Iraqis you can presume to speak for by your first statement, but the ariticle in the London Times says that "Iraqis feel life is better now than under Saddam". That's a good start, really the best possible outcome one could hope for, especially since Iraq has never had anything like a democracy before. Totally new experience for them.

    Which brings to fore the issue of lingering violence: with a nation that had been under a super oppressive regime for many decades -- the Baathist Party -- with only one ruler, Saddam, and one favored group, the Sunnis, who are actually a minority in the whole of Iraq, it is little wonder at all that violence would last as long as it has.

    The Kurds, the Sunnis, and the Shi'a have long-standing animosities, with centuries of scores to settle. Combine that with further feuding between the many clans in that part of the world, and it's a wonder the violence has not been more. No matter *who* replaced the dictatorship of Saddam, there would be feuds, fights, and violence.

    The U.S. simply acted as the catalyst for change, a change for democracy, a chance for all the people who choose to participate, can participate. To jump all over that noble effort now is simply small-minded partisanship.

    The Bush administration is simply caught in the middle: damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I am now completely convinced that Bush would have been railed out of town if he had *NOT* gone into Iraq and removed Saddam, if he had *NOT* done all he has to establish a stable form of government in Iraq based upon democratic principles.

    This is now, and has always been, all about politics: get rid of Bush. Plain and simple. Especially in the last two years. Some Dems still cannot get over the elections Bush won in '00 and '04, and they will stop at nothing to get rid of Bush. These people could care less about the war, Iraq, people dying, or anything other than getting rid of Geo Bush.


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  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    While the signs are definitely showing steady improvements all around: Iraqi national security, business, infrastructure, education, participation in government, freedom of speech, and on and on, ... it would be criminally pre-mature to simply pull out before the job is finished.

    When Iraq is FIRMLY under the control of a stable and democratically elected government, and security is comparable to other democratic nations, THEN we can start bringing people home.

    When Iraq can stand on its own two feet and deal smoothly and effectively with her neighbors all over the world, then the U.S. will have fulfilled her mission. Then and ONLY then.


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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While other polls shows the Iraqis think things are worse than under Saddam.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2954716&page=1

    We'll never know the true extent of Saddam's oppression, though there's no question he was an awful man. The problem is that most of the info that's used to judge his regime came from his enemies, including the same people who fabricated lies that the Bush administration was stupid enough to believe.

    Yes, so it remains to be seen if Saddam was the lesser of many evils. At least he primarily killed so called political enemies, not random civilians. And, up until 1991, he had done a good job with the Iraqi economy, education, and health services.

    Yeah, what's a 100,000 or so lives in the course of promoting change. I suppose if North Korea ever attacks South Korea, they can say they're simply acting as a catalyst of change. And, it's certainly not a noble effort when you destroy a nation and kill so many people. It was never a noble effort. The more noble effort would have been containment coupled with political pressure that would have eventually led to a more peaceful transition in Iraq. After all, Saddam was in his 60s and had grown more vulnerable. How many more Iraqis are you prepared to sacrifice to defend your political agenda?

    Now, now, don't get defensive. This issue is about using lies and deceit to wage an unnecessary and costly war.
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Gee, I always thought the issue was how to liberate the Iraqi people from millenia of oppression and dictatorship, and to demonstrate to other peoples living under similar oppressive regimes that they, too, could have hope so that men wouldn't have to fear being put feet-first through plastic shredding machines and women wouldn't have to worry about the next round of rape-rooms, beatings, and be-headings, and the children would not have to watch it all.



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