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Iraqi debt forgiven. Has a US debt ever been wiped from the books?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by MrBigglesWorth, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/06/iraq.uae/index.html


    Honestly. I am so confused the reason we are in Iraq. It obviously wasn't for WMD's. Sure to remove Saddam but it's been chaos ever since.

    Some say it was for oil but now countries other than the United States are getting a chance to win the contract. Shouldn't this oil pay for the ongoing forces there?

    It's been one huge money pit and literally "No End In Sight". Could this be the downfall of our country sucking so much money from our economy with little benefit to our country.

    Has a country ever forgiven our debt?

    :confused:
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I am also frustrated by the way the US has been treated by the new Iraqi regime. How can they put their oil contracts up for bid and not give the United States the best & exclusive deal?

    Do they actually believe they are not indebted to us? If that's true, let's get the eff out right now!
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    You're kidding, right?

    I wonder what all the Bush rumpswabs think of this bullsh!t?

    Get the fu(k out now? Not a bad idea. Once again, we continue to kiss Arab arse and we take it in our own while we're doing it.

    FOLLOW THE MONEY!...:mad:
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  4. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    I hope with the new presidency we just get out of there. This has turned into another Vietnam.

    We are like the British try to squash Washington and the revolution. We are not going to win.
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "you're kidding, right?" Can you be more specific? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I meant that of course they believe they are not indebted to us! What do they owe us?. We are responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people there. We destroyed their country and its infrastructure. We unleashed years of lawlessness and suicide bombing. They are no longer a sovereign country. They are under foreign occupation. Think of the reverse. Imagine that China did to us what we did in Iraq. Would you feel "indebted".

    Just ask the chickenhaws. They'll tell you that we're the ones who owe the Iraqis, right? After all, we broke it - we own it...isn't that what they say? WMD's, Saddam, fighting "terrorists", fixing the broken stuff (big $ for Bush's contractors), establishing "democracy", regional geopolitical change, Iran, oil,.....I can't keep track of the excuses for why we're occupying Iraq.

    And now they owe us something? The only thing they owe us is a demand that we leave.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Ok, I see what you're saying, but I don't agree with everything you're saying. Iraq was in a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. He was one of the most evil dictators of our times so taking him down wasn't wrong on our part, at least IMO.

    Have you forgotten all the celebrating the Iraqi people did following his ouster? Or how the Iraqi people celebrated in joy after he was hung?

    I think the lawlessness and suicide bombings are on them. That is their responsibility, not ours. They have a choice whether to do such acts of barbarism and nothing we have done can be used as an excuse.

    I think it's pretty embaressing that they can't come together in unity to form a peaceful country. I don't need to know or understand the history of Iraq to say that. They live in the same modern era as we do and they need to grow up as a people.

    So, if they rejoice at the removal of Hussein, then yes, they owe us. No matter how much money we give them to rebuild their infrastructure, they waste it by destroying more of it. I believe we have tried to help them as much as possible and they are just too barbaric to know what to do with it.

    Let's just imagine that the Iraqi people had come together after we removed Hussein and built a unified nation and were now prospering and living peacefully. Would they then "owe" us Wista? If the answer is yes, then it is only on them that this has not happened, isn't it?

    Your China example only works if we had a dictator who was killing millions of our own people.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  8. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    More useless hyperbole, from the king of know-nothingness.

    Yeah, Iraq was a fucking paradise, did you vacation there? Where did you stay the Usay Hussein death chamber suite?
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That didn't happen, did it?
    Let's discuss the real situation. My analogy of the Chinese in the USA was a hypothetical. What's happening in Iraq is not a hypothetical.

    We started from a point of Terrorists and WMD's. The excuse factory was spitting out a new one every month. There was no "damned if you don't". We had no reason to go into Iraq. If we hadn't, how would we have been damned? Was it our fault that Hussein was a brutal dictator? If that was the reasoning, then why didn't we go into the Congo? Why aren't we in Burma? That's a weak justification. You and I both know why we're in Iraq, and it has nothing to do with human suffering, unless you consider boardmembers of Oilcorp human.
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That's right, stupid.
    I vacationed in a death chamber. That was funny...death chamber...heh.

    Where did I say Iraq was a paradise? Doesn't your local shool district offer adult remedial reading at night?

    So I'm clear: if a country isn't "beautiful" then we should go in and trash it and rebuild it? How much money do you want to put forward for that job.

    What a pathetic Bush rumpswab you are.
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    The above is where we agree Wista. But for whatever the motive, removing Saddam was a good thing from the Iraqi people's perspective. Had we been able to poll them, I'm sure they would have over-whelmingly asked for his removal.

    So aside from the false excuses of attacking Iraq, they were STILL given an opportunity to make it work and THEY failed, not us.

    It's not like you to not answer a question directly, so please tell me your thoughts on;

    Let's just imagine that the Iraqi people had come together after we removed Hussein and built a unified nation and were now prospering and living peacefully. Would they then "owe" us Wista? If the answer is yes, then it is only on them that this has not happened, isn't it?

    Yes, I know we didn't have to be there in the first place and all the excuses. But still, we presented them with an opportunity they may not have had for hundreds of years considering the size of Saddam's family.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I'm not going to bite on the hypothetical. I didn't expect you to go for mine, either. It was just an illustration. There were plenty of people who thought that it was highly unlikely that the "Iraqi people", whoever they are, had a snowball's chance in hell of running their own country after spending a generation under totalitarian rule. The Russians had a peaceful and difficult transition under Gorbachev and Yeltsin. This was more like being thrown into a pool from a dead sleep. The Iraqis are ill-equipped, unwilling, and un-unified. There are actually three countries in Iraq. I don't get this desperate urge to keep Iraq together.


    OK then, if the Iraqi people had come together after we removed Hussein and built a unified nation and were now prospering and living peacefully, I don't think they would owe us anything. It was our idea. We eat it. If someonhe came up to you, burned down your house and the gave you a new house, would you feel like you owed them anything?
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Another Vietnam? The downfall of our country? :confused:

    Geopolitical change in the ME. It's why regime change has been signed US policy since the Clinton Administration. After 9/11, that policy became reality. Questioning our need to topple Saddam is 100% valid. Were it up to me, I'd have passed on it in 2003. That doesn't mean I don't understand why we went in there. Those who think that the war in Iraq will be our economic downfall, haven't been paying attention to the entitlement programs, and 60 years of continuous red ink from nearly a dozen different administrations. The cost of Iraq is a few more logs tossed into the inferno. It'll certainly help speed up the inevitable.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    The difference between my analogy and yours is that mine could have happened. Every opportunity has been afforded the Iraqi people to start anew and THEY have failed. I don't understand how when given the option for peace or death, they choose death.

    As for you burning down the house analogy...If my house was possessed by evil demons and someone burnt it down and gave me a new one where the only demons would be my own, yes, I'd be grateful.

    It wasn't like they were happy living in that house...wouldn't you agree. Look, my point is some of the blame for failure MUST be put upon the Iraqi people, not just on the US government.
  15. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    you don't think Iraq is another Vietnam? you suggest this conflict can be won?

    I agree our economic downfall is multi-faceted. It really doesn't help we just toss billions of dollars around like it's pocket change. they just become numbers.

    We need to have a balanced budget, that's the reality. you can't continually right up the national debt that sucks billions of dollars to pay for it's interest. seems to me like many people are profiting from that. it would be interesting to trace where those interest payments end up.

    if we dn't have a radical change in spending and eliminate corruption the US government will eventually go bankrupt.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    According to the London Times we are going to 'win in Iraq, the Mahdi army has been routed and the last AL Queda stronghold in Iraq Mosul is being cleaned out with the Iraqi's in the lead. try to keep up.
  17. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    try to keep up???lol

    nice way to spin the propaganda. hard to convince me that we're winning when the people of the coutnry don't want us there.

    what constitutes winning there to you?
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't want us or no longer need us?

    If they can get by without us that would be great, it would show the entire ME we went in to free the Iraqi's and not take over the country.
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    In my opinion, it's a case of we can't win in Iraq. The only way we'd lose would be if Iraq became a close ally of Iran...or Iran attacked Iraq and won.

    I view it as "we've given it all we have to make this work" and if it does't, it's on the Iraqi people.
  20. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    so when do you cut your losses and pull out?

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