Welcome to PatsFans.com

Iraq is Not Vietnam, say students in Iraq

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    .

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Political science students at Baghdad University had barely begun a discussion of comparisons between the Iraq and Vietnam wars when suddenly nearby explosions shook the classroom.

    The talk instantly shifted from a past conflict to the here and now -- and what it's like to live in a war zone when it's unknown if a trip to school will be your last.

    Yasser Thar, a junior, said such bombings fill him with fear and anxiety.

    "I wonder if my family is OK because we have no idea where those bombs are landing," he said.

    More bombs went off. The students didn't even flinch. (Watch bombs shake class, make students more determined under fire Video)

    "These explosions have united us as the sectarian violence divides us. Whether we are Sunni, Shia or Kurd, we are all targets and that has brought us closer," said Muhklas Ali, also a junior.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/12/btsc.phillips.baghdad/index.html


    //
     
  2. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Is the point here that a handfull of Iraqi students have had an epiphany?

    Well..... there is one room full of Surge supporters.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,817
    Likes Received:
    182
    Ratings:
    +371 / 11 / -28

    Guess 32% want this to continue....sounds like the people have spoken, and the great decider has decided.
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    What's the point of this thread?
     
  5. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Damned if I know Wistah

    How bout those Red Sox!!!!!!! ;)
     
  6. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0



    Re-read the part where these students say:

    "These explosions have united us as the sectarian violence divides us. Whether we are Sunni, Shia or Kurd, we are all targets and that has brought us closer."

    These young people are from all the different factions, Sunni, Shi'a, Kurd, and they are all united in opposition to war and violence.

    So, how can that happen?? Pull out all U.S. personnel today? Tomorrow?? Next month? Set an arbitrary time-table so the violence producers can take a vacation in the hills somewhere, train, and perfect their plan to overthrow the new government??

    We need to keep pursuing these perps until THEY have lost the will to fight. It's that simple. All wars end when one side gives up the fight. If the U.S. ends it first, the natural thing is to say the U.S. "lost". We didn't think we had lost much but a daily body count when we pulled out of SE Asia 35 years ago, but, believe me, the Southeast Asians lost a lot, and so did the U.S. in terms of our image as trustworthy and dependable friends. SE Asia is still lagging far behind the rest of the world in terms of internal development, and they don't respect America much, either.


    //
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,817
    Likes Received:
    182
    Ratings:
    +371 / 11 / -28

    How can you honestly expect these perps will loose their will to fight, these conflicts have been going on for more than one thousand years, do you really believe that we will, first of all get all the perps and secondly, when we do so there will be no more will to fight??? I think you are incredibly optimistic, and comparing this again to SE Asia is very poor and really begging the issue.

    You need to present a very strong argument, that our actions will change centuries of hate that is imbedded in their culture. Do you really think all those Palestinians, who have no homeland except a refugee camp, are not breeding terrorists?? It is what it is a freaking mess, and to think our soldiers are going to make a huge difference in any outcome in the ME is seriously flawed.
     
  8. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    What he said Fog.

    The example cited above (though heartwarming) does not jusitify the loss of men or money for this ridiculous policy. If they could manage to get a few hundred thousand of these accolytes of Democracy to march in support of US occupation then maybe I would buy your argument.THe only ones marching now are those who tell us to get the "F" out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2007
  9. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    You draw all that from this? Wow. Thats impressive.

    Who, in your opinion are the "violence producers"? and is that the new term for terr'ist I haven't yet heard from the Bush delusion camp??

    In fact, if you read the paragraph in the article where it says:



    well then you might actually come to the conclusion that your thread title is extremely misleading and deceptive.

    No, Its not Vietnam...its far far worse.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0





    Wallow, then. Someday, here or there, you may/probably will meet these kids. You won't have to explain what you did during this intense time period; they will be able to see it on you immediately.



    //
     
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0


    Like all wars there is no need to get "all the perps", just the primary instigators; the followers will soon find someone better to follow.

    I agree that this is an old problem, a VERY old problem going all the way back to the beginning. The ultimate solution is love. Only love can melt the ages-old enmity that people hold in their hearts. But meanwhile the perpetrators of mindless killing need to be pursued, simultaneously while another effort is made to dry up the pool of resentment that feeds this stuff. No different than regular police: without a credible force to uphold a sense of basic human decency -- no murders, no suicide bombings, etc. -- society belongs to those who wield raw power. Pure hell.


    //
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,817
    Likes Received:
    182
    Ratings:
    +371 / 11 / -28

    Are our CIA interrogators and mercenaries, spreading love???. are we spreading love by leveling towns???.. are we spreading love by some of the atrocities of this war???.. do not get me wrong, in war sometimes it is no holds barred and stuff happens, but this is not the answer if you want to win their hearts and minds. From what I see, love is not being spread all that well, there is a lot of humanitarian effort going on there by our troops who are doing a good job, but much of this is overshadowed by some of the atrocities of war this will happen by human beings cast into this situation. The human tendency is to accentuate the negative, not the positive..
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0


    Your description does not fit as a common rule according to what I have heard from guys on the ground over in Iraq. Yes,
    there have been excesses in this conflict, as there almost always are in armed conflicts, but by and large this has been a more surgical application of force than any other armed conflict the U.S. has been in.

    In dealing with insurgents or terrorists, it's like parents and a family: you love your children but you need to be ready to back up your rules with discipline, the minimum necessary to get the point home. But you cannot allow the crazed violence to take over the home or everyone is killed, spiritually as well as physically.


    //
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,817
    Likes Received:
    182
    Ratings:
    +371 / 11 / -28

    In my mind words like love, spirituality are in direct conflict with the whole concept of war, just does not work, there are acts of kindness .. the comparison of of dealing with insurgents or terrorists,to parenting also does not compute.. think you need to look at your analogies, they are not working for me.
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0



    Then just consider the acts of 9/11: what do you do to prevent such things from happening again?

    You don't have to try to cover the whole gamut, just the basic starting points. What would you do to prevent that kind of thing from happening again?


    //
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,817
    Likes Received:
    182
    Ratings:
    +371 / 11 / -28

    First of all you are making linkages that have been disproved over and over again. Invading Iraq, did and does not have any linkages to 9-11. If you think we should just invade a country based on half truths and contrived intelligence, will stop terrorism.. we are completely different wavelengths.

    I am not sure of what you do, but you do not invade a non-involved country and base the invasion on non truths, blow up its infrastructure and expect the muslim community to be warm and fuzzy about the US.
     
  17. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0


    Your decription of our engagement in Iraq is a version of "tough love" ? :rofl:

    Continued vigilance by our intelligence services and border patrol and immigration departments will be our best defense against a repeat of 9/11. There is no guarrantee to completely safeguard the US from any terrorist threat.

    Certainly this tragic occupation serves no purpose in the defense of our nation and in fact weakens our standing within the international community.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  18. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Im not sure what you were on when you wrote this. Please clarify. Thanks and may Gaia bless you.
     
  19. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    You mean in all your infinite wisdom, it never occurred to you that invading nations and laying waste probably doesn't win hearts and minds? hmmmm...wow.

    I have a couple novel ideas: how about we stop meddling in ME nations affairs? How about we end our reliance on foreign oil? How about ending our double standard foreign policy of propping up kings and dictators and other oppressive governments? How about we stop buiding bases in holy lands?

    How about we stop intervening in general?

    Just for starters....

    May Gaia bless you.
     
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0


    haven't we all come to love it when Fog retreats to this?... i know i do...
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>