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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by State, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Let's be blunt. One of the things that sets the Patriots apart is the fact that they take into account intelligence in a meaningful way at positions where it is important--QB, ILB, OL. One can see how the different positions' http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../231585-wonderlic-scores-out.html#post1356396lined.

    Here's the list from this year's draft here.

    People have sounded off, sometimes attacking the Wonderlic as bogus on this very forum. Tsk-tsk.

    That's why two years ago we passed on Keith Rivers (15) for Jerod Mayo (26).

    This helps explain why Beatty (22) was overlooked in favor of Vollmer (He's got Einstein's brain in the Russian boxer's http://dlistornot.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/ivandrago.jpg body in Rocky IV) or Mayo (26) taken last year but not any of the LBers available to us this year in the first or second rounds.

    I think even without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight Belichick does not take Vince Young high in the first round even if we needed a QB. Interesting experiment: type in "Vince Young" on the Google serarch bar and see what comes up for options first.

    Wonderlic

    Who has time to spend extra time on dullards when time is short? There ain't no time for Individualized Education Plans (IEP) in the NFL.

    There is no point in having a Michael Oher (19--good thing he's got a beautiful smile) or a Rey Maualuga (15--way too low) on this team for this very reason, regardless of their physical blessings.

    I think other teams are catching on. For example, the best QBs in the game are very, vert smart. No Dan Marinos in the bunch that I can tell.
     
  2. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

  3. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So what was Volmer's Wonderlic vs Beatty's 22 ? :confused:
     
  4. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    Patchick says it was a 32 to Oher's 21. I can't find corroboration for it anywhere, though.

    Remember Vollmer wasn't even invited to the combine.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...94-vollmer-left-tackle-page2.html#post1404730

    Her posting is one of the best ones I've ever read on this site.

    This guy says the play of Vollmer stood out when he was reviewing the tape to watch another player. Humorously, he guarantees that Vollmer wouldn't be a second round draft choice.
     
  5. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He choice that the Pats had was Beatty or Volmer when picking at #58. Oher, I think, was dropped from their list, long ago.

    This draftnik "discovered" Volmer while watching tape of another player. He was sure he he was an unknown sleeper pick. But Rich Gosslin's NFL contacts knew about Volmer; and the consensus as interpreted by RG, had him rated as around an early third rounder.

    The Patriots scouts un-earthed him, as well. But as an example of the Patriot's scouting thoroughness, they dispatched both Scarnecchia and Belichick to work out Beatty at UConn on his Pro day.

    Similarly, Scarnecchia journeyed to Houston, and according to sources was allowed to take over the Houston Pro day as the senior, (or only), NFL representative there. Basically he ran their pro day, assuring that he got to see Volmer in any and all the drills that he wished to see.

    There is no better way to judge a couple of players than to be the Coach and have them run through YOUR training drills, assuming both are healthy, as they were.

    The Patriots after all that, decided that Volmer was the superior prospect.

    It is seldom that a high prospect LOT drops to the late second round; if I were the Pats, I might have traded to get another late second, in 2009, and secured both players. You can never have enough quality Offensive linemen.
     
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    FWIW, I think you're reading too much into the single example of Mayo. Guyton, Lua and Claridge all had very pedestrian Wonderlic scores.

    The OL, in contrast, is seriously stacked in the Wonderlic department. Every o-lineman except Hochstein (who wasn't a Pats draftee) outscored Mayo, some by a wide margin.
     
  7. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    Patchick, you had me at hello.
     
  8. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I think those "Wonderlic" tests are the most pointless tests around. I think most players could care less and mark anything because that s*** has nothing to do with football. You are becoming a football player, not studying for your SAT's. Why don't they change it up and actually ask football questions? That "Wonderlic" guy can take his test and shove it up his a**. That s*** needs to be banned from the NFL.
     
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    State - again you don't do your homework. If you had, you'd know that there have been plenty of players on the Pats who have scored below a 15 on the Wonderlic. The following are a list of wonderlic scores for some past and present Patriots. I think it shows that the Wonderlic, while a factor, isn't the be all end all for decisions regarding whom the Patriots draft.

    Vince Wilfork had a 10
    Ben Watson had a 41
    Asante Samuel had a 10
    Richard Seymour had an 18
    Bethel Johnson had a 20
    Deion Branch had a 26
    David Givens had an 18
    Matt Light had a 29
    Dan Koppen had a 28
    Logan Mankins had a 31
    Nick Kaczur had a 29
    Eugene Wilson had a 20
    Ty Warren has a 15
    Jarvis Green had a 18
    Daniel Graham had a 10
    Eillis Hobbs had a 15
     
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Spoken like someone who doesn't understand what the Wonderlic is actually about. Great job there...
     
  11. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    What is then genius? I've seen sample questions and there pointless, just like most s*** you learn in school these days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  12. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Calling the Wonderlic questions "pointless" because they're not about football kind of...umm...misses the point. The players are already tested on their domain-specific knowledge in a dozen ways. The Wonderlic is a different kind of data point, a test of processing and reasoning your way through a bunch of abstract information on paper under pressure. Taken in context of the other information available it can be useful, for some positions more than others. For instance, an O'Connoll's strong Wonderlic score might support your confidence that he can make the leap to a vastly more complex offense, while Vince Young's abysmal score was an early warning that the same leap might overwhelm him. Not a make or break, just one more data point.
     
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Considering that you have a hard time putting coherent sentences together, its no wonder you don't understand what it is used for.

    If the wonderlic was so "useless," then why is it that some Fortune 500 companies use it in their interviews. The Wonderlic tests multiple things. Whether you read directions. How well you think on your feet and how well you handle pressure.

    Employee Testing | Employee Selection | HR Solutions | HR Consulting

    As for schooling, the purpose of school is to teach you how to learn and how to apply what you learn. Post High School educations are a different thing entirely. Their purpose is to give you the groundwork for being an even more productive member of society.
     
  14. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    My bad about the sentences. Sometimes I'm in such a hurry, I make some errors. I still don't agree with the Wonderlic tests because some people just aren't "test takers" but can perform the job at a very high level. As many football players have proven, you can't read too much into these scores. In addition, not too many teams care about this as well. If you have the talent, you will be drafted. A person can be very knowledgeable in football but be bad at math, science and history. Also, I'm not a very good test taker but I always scored extremely high with my essays. I believe if you have an interest in anything, you will most likely succeed in it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you can't do the math that is on the wonderlic you don't deserve to have a High School Diploma, never mind a college degree. Just because you "aren't a very good test taker" doesn't mean a damn thing with the Wonderlic. It's not like its rocket science. One of the things it tests is whether you read instructions. And, if you do, you should be able to score an average grade on it.

    It doesn't matter what you agree or disagree with. Its a tool that has been proven to be effective in many different interviewing situations across many different industries. As I said in my initial post before you spouted off, the Wonderlic is just another tool in the scouting process and is not the be all end all.
     
  16. fester

    fester On the Game Day Roster

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    But at the same time on the LBs, the ones you mention were either UDFA or low risk/low reward late picks. I think the more interesting study would be the great and never to be completed risk v. reward profile where my supposition, all else being equal, higher Wonderlics scores tend to be drafted at more expensive slots than lower wonderlic scores for the same position....
     
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Well, here are the (known) Wonderlic scores of the Patriots' top overall picks each year under BB:

    19
    18
    10
    15
    10
    31
    16
    26

    Only 2 of the 8 managed the theoretical "average" score, which doesn't bode well for the theory.
     

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