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Internal problems in Al Qaeda

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Short, interesting article about Al Qaeda's strategy, internal divisions, and Zarqawi.

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/060619ta_talk_wright

    Among those quietly celebrating the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi last week, no doubt, were Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leaders of Al Qaeda, who have watched their nominal ally wreck the standing of their organization among Muslims around the world. After Zarqawi began his bloody operations in Iraq, in 2003, support for suicide bombings—the signature of Al Qaeda since the destruction of the American embassies in East Africa, in 1998—plummeted in Islamic countries. Muslims surveyed in the 2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project reported in substantial numbers that Islamic extremism was a threat to their own countries. Jordan, Zarqawi’s homeland, seemed to be the exception. Then Zarqawi sent suicide bombers to three hotels in downtown Amman, killing sixty people, including prominent Jordanians and Palestinians, many of whom were celebrating a wedding. The next day, tens of thousands of Jordanians poured into the streets to denounce Al Qaeda.

    Zarqawi was the herald of a new generation of terrorists whose roots were in street crime, not in Islamic militancy. A former thief and sex offender, he memorized the Koran while he was in prison, and began issuing fatwas and calling himself “sheikh.†“There’s certainly been a downgrading of ideological purity,†Niall Brennan, a special agent on the joint terrorism task force in the New York office of the F.B.I., told me on the morning that Zarqawi’s death was announced. “The next generation is in many respects less disciplined and doesn’t have the same respect for command and control.†Bin Laden, despite his own appetite for slaughter, disdained Zarqawi’s rough manners, prison tattoos, and unruly independence. But after the American invasion of Afghanistan Al Qaeda’s founders were immobilized, reduced to making occasional videotapes designed to rouse aspiring jihadis and berate Western leaders. Deprived of the managerial oversight of bin Laden, an international businessman, Al Qaeda began to shape itself around Zarqawi’s organizational experience, which is to say that it turned into a gang. This was a model easily replicated by would-be jihadis—as in Madrid, London, Toronto—wherever alienated young Muslims yearned for destruction.

    Ayman al-Zawahiri, an Egyptian and the No. 2 man in Al Qaeda, was always closer to Zarqawi than bin Laden was. In 2000, Al Qaeda’s Egyptian security chief, Saif al-Adl, helped Zarqawi establish a camp in Afghanistan, near the Iranian border. Young fighters from Jordan, Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon—the area historically called the Sham—gravitated to the camp and formed the Army of the Sham. Although Zarqawi was not yet a member of Al Qaeda, he remained under the protection of the Egyptians. According to Iraq’s former interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, who claims that he discovered the information in the archives of the Iraqi secret service, Zarqawi travelled to Iraq in 1999, around the same time as Zawahiri. Saddam Hussein was courting Al Qaeda at the time. Inspired, perhaps, by Iran’s relationship with Hezbollah, he may have believed that he could use terrorists to conduct his foreign policy without undermining his rule. Contrary to Secretary of State Colin Powell’s assertion before the U.N. Security Council, in February, 2003, that Zarqawi provided the link to Al Qaeda in Iraq, bin Laden and Zawahiri spurned Saddam’s overtures.

    After Saddam was overthrown, Zarqawi installed himself as the leader of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq. His ability to act was an affront to the founders in hiding, who were no longer able to control their own organization. Although Al Qaeda was an exclusively Sunni association, neither bin Laden nor Zawahiri had ever authorized an attack on Shiites. One of Zarqawi’s first actions, in August, 2003, was to send his father-in-law on a suicide mission to the Imam Ali Mosque, killing nearly a hundred Muslims at prayer. Among them was Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim, who was expected to be a unifying force in Iraq. Zarqawi explained that his goal was to awaken the Sunnis by dragging the Shia “into the arena of sectarian war.†Ten days earlier, Zarqawi had destroyed the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, effectively driving the international-aid community out of the country. These attacks were characteristic of Zarqawi’s method, which was to target the people who could turn Iraq into a functioning society—teachers, doctors, courageous political thinkers, anyone with the skill and education to pull the country away from chaos.

    ...
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good article. The only thing I would comment on is the part about OBL rejecting Saddam's ovetures. Translated documents from the Iraqi Intellegence service, show that Mullah Omar and OBl were seeking to work with Saddam.

    Thanks for posting.
     
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who the hell cares what they think or say, KILL the bastards before they KILL more of us.
     
  4. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Iraq Intelligence service is a puppet of the George Bush administration.
    The "translated" documents is a part of another propaganda to re-link Saddam to OBL.


    .
     
  5. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The documents are listed on a government website in there original state for the world to translate, so anyone can translate them. So if you think they are lying find someone who speaks arabic and have them translated for you then you can determine for yourself who is telling the truth. An independent guy who has a lot of middle east knowledge has assembled a team to start translating the documents.
     
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They are all "Muslim Terrorists" who the hell cares where they come from or who they play with, America is at war with "Muslim Terrorists" why do the damn Bush Haters ignore that?

    The filthy swine smelly bastards are all sleeping in one bed, what is wrong with you pandering whiney liberals.

    Muslim Terrorist Killers are all over the world, some of them are right here in America, WAITING, they pray to Allah each day that the Liberal Democrats will come into power.

    Osama Bin Laden sent a message to America during the last election the message was "VOTE KERRY"
     
  7. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    You and your fantasy "documents" again. yes, yes, I know...we've had them in 2003, but didn't have translators, so these boxes and boxes of documents have been sitting in the basement of the Pentagon for three years. Documents that probably have lists of terrorist contacts in this country, and discussions of the next 9/11-style attack are just sitting in boxes, assigned a low priority, because there's no people in this country who speak Arabic, and people who speak Arabic take months to translate a single document. And these documents always back up the point you're trying to make.

    OBL himself has said, many times, most recently about three months ago when he was talking about US GI crimes against civilians, comparing the Occupying forces to Saddam's Gestapo, that he did not like Saddam, thought Saddam was corrupt, thought Saddam was in violation of Islamic law, thought Saddam should be overthrown, and refused to do any kind of business with him. THAT is documented, and by the W. administration Department of Defense.

    Maybe these "documents" are untranslated because W and friends don't want people to know what they say. Probably "Milk, Cheese, Lamb, Hummus, Dry Cleaning"

    Maybe these "documents" were created by the Arabic-speaking translators who have been supposedly hard at work at the Pentagon.

    Furthermore, what kind of Defense Department scans National Security documents to the public internet? Stop being so naive. There is approximately a zero percent chance that these documents exists as you believe them to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The docs are online (PDF's of the originals). If you choose to ignore them that is your problem. If you choose to entertain paranoid conspiracy theories be my guest.
     
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    As I said before on these new (proofs, that fox initially posted as fact's have yet been validated) when and if they are it will be run on the world media , until then it;s like all the other s--t that fox throws at the wall hoping it will stick..Remember the aluminum tubes, made specifically for a centrifuge that would help make the nuclar bomb as bush said in one of his many speeches that proved untrue, those aluminum tubes were rocket sleeves ,not centrafuge tubes, doh.
     
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again the PDF of the originals are there in Arabic for anyone to review and translate. If Fox or anyone else were lying, why not just show the alternate translation?

    Why would the goverment go to the trouble of creating phony documents in Arabic? Why then post them in PDF format?
     
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kill the smelly bastards, "behead them".
    _________________________________________________
    Socialist Liberals, "your ship is sinking" God save your souls.
     
  12. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I can see W. now, "Well somma*****, we had this proof of terrorism in Iraq the whole time...we just preferred to release it three years after the fact, because we enjoy all the accusations that no such ties existed. See. No, honest, these were captured three years ago, and they prove that the war in Iraq was justified all along."
     
  13. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Because they can say they were captured in Iraq, and naive souls like you will believe them. And there are a lot of naive souls like yours. The propaganda game is as old as prostitution.
     
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We didn't choose to release th etranslations now. The documents haven't been translated. Congress ordered the PDF of the originals to be posted on the internet. Anyone in the world is free to tranlate the docs, Anyone else can double check the translation for accuracy.
     
  15. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Again they would run it on world wide media if it;s actually true...

    Here, I am scratching my ass, is it true because I posted it on a website, obviously to you it is, cuz you can read, or I was watching a show where a man was captured by aliens in a ufo, I seen it on tv so it must be real, hell, who needs validation the tv dont lie.Again when and if it's validated it will run on world wide media, right now there is no defintive proof, its just a document, not yet validated, doh
     
  16. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    To me, naive would be, dismissing information as propaganda because you don't agree with its premise. These documents didn't just pop out of nowhere, people (congress) have known about them for a while now and have asked for them to be released. And to answer Dryheat's question about national security documents, they can't be classified because nobody knows what they say.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a post to the portal where the untranslated documents are bing posted, many are quite mundane. If I understand you correctly, you feel these documents are all a fabrication correct?

    http://70.168.46.200/

    The documents are there for public inspection and translation as to why the media is too lazy to listen to the audio or translate the documents? You'd have to ask the Wash post or NYT.
     
  18. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    P13, you know better, if they have not been validated by mediamatters, it just can't be true.

    David Brock is their new brain.
     
  19. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    No, Congress did not order the PDF of unknown military documents posted on the internet. That is an obvious violation of national security and public safety, and Congress has never in its history ordered anything posted on the internet. I don't know who told you that. When Congress orders the release of documents, they're released in bound official reports, like you would find at the library. I know, I can see the Capitol from my office window and deal with them often enough.

    Listen, and this is the last you'll hear from me on the subject. Think about this logically. It is 2003. Support for the Iraq invasion is fast fading. Other countries have withdrawn their forces. Bush is starting to lose the support of Congress, and has already lost the support of half the citizens.

    These documents are his golden ticket. They prove to the U.S. and the world whatever...that there was a connection between A-Q and Saddam, that Iraq had WMDs, that Iraq was planning an attack on the U.S. Translating these documents would have been priority one for the administration. Our various defense agencies have thousands of Arabic speakers employed or contracted. If 1000 documents was found on Jan. 1, 2003, 1000 documents would be translated by Feb. 1, 2003. And on Feb 2 George Bush would have upstaged Punxatony Phil with the greatest press conference of his life. Undeniable proof that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US or our allies, instead of switching to some lame "spreading freedom" justification. The Pres would have 100% support of Congress, this country, and the rest of the world. Other countries, including many Arabic ones, would also commit troops to the cause. Armed Forces recruiters wouldn't be able to sign people up fast enough. And Bush's approval ratings would be around 90%.

    I mean, there's just no way that all this information which would save Bush's reputation and presidency would be coming out three years after the fact. And if it was, even now his administration and the Republican Congress would be making a much bigger deal of it. I'm not even sure they've acknowledged this great "find".
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2006
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    That's not true. Unknown documents captured from an enemy military don't start out as unclassified, then moved to classified when it's found out what's in them. They are filed as classified, than un-classified as they're translated and decided that they're harmless.
     

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