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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Turk, May 29, 2006.

  1. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2005
  2. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did you read the founder's profile?

    Bill Cross, a Vietnam combat veteran, spent ten years in the army. He was a professor of military psychology and leadership at West Point. A PhD, Bill is a psychologist and college professor in upstate New York where he frequently counsels veterans. He was a founding member of Veterans For Peace in Syracuse in 1991. Father of three, Bill has seven grandchildren.

    Jim Ryan spent five years in the army artillery with assignments in the United States and Europe. Thereafter a businessman, he subsequently became a writer. He divides his time between Istanbul, Turkey where he lives, and New York City where he teaches in the summer at Columbia University. Father of four, Jim has eight grandchildren.

    I respect their position, but one started vets for peace in 91 and another lives in Turkey and teaches at a liberal university. so it shouldn't be a shock that these two would be against any war.
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Is Ike a bleeding hear liberal professor living in Turkey?
  4. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is Ike a member?

    What kind of response is that?
  5. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    I have not only read the profiles but had the privilege of meeting Jim Ryan.
    If you read the feedback section where you will have access to just a small percentage of letters they have received from military men from around the world, as well as the quotes from past West Point Graduates, the movement becomes a bit clearer.
    This is not about just a couple of (liberal) ex-military men, this is about credibility, and honor which means taking a stand against an illegal, dishonorable war.
    "These two ex-military men would be against any war" you say. How about the quotes from Robert E Lee, William T. Sherman, Ulysses S. Grant, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Omar N. Bradley? Were they all worse suited than George W Bush?
    How about the Lancet study which suggests over 100,000 dead and that the killing is much worse now than when Saddam was in power?
    The home page and the pictures on it of dead children and mothers gagged, tied up, then thrown on the back of trucks right alongside their babies are enough to raise eyebrows, to say the least, not to mention the caskets full of young Americans that this administration has a problem showing to the public.

    We are talking about two men, one of whom deferred countless times and the other one who dodged utilizing his family's power and influence that are responsible for these pictures.
    These two are anything but credible.
  6. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Being against war and bloodshed is a position I can and do respect. Blaming everything on the United States is a position that I can not respect. This country provides the majority of the worlds aid and constantly is expected to clean up the worlds problems. I know the US is evil and other countries are great. My mistake.

    Is it a shock that the people that have seen war first hand may come to hate it? Sometimes it is neccassary.

    So is Saddam not to blame at all? Does he deserve any blame for what happened?
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    It's in reference to his quotes on the web page link you posted. I know he's not a member, fakrissakes.
  8. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Spending many months in Northern Iraq and speaking and working with many Kurds, I have the same view of Turkey as I do Saudi Arabia, take it for what it's worth.............(Backstabbing double talkers)

    I think these websites and groups would be better served without personal attacks, it clouds their message and turns many people off without even getting to their message.
  9. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I see. You can blame the wise@ss in me.:D
  10. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Ron Borges=MgColby...

    :horn:
  11. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There he goes with conspiracy theories again. You really need to see a shrink!
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Amazed to see how once again everything becomes polarized, can't WP grads be against the way, without some psychological examination?? I know some WWII folks and many people in DC who are against this war and feel as though we have been deceived. I know people in the Pentagon who feel the same way and think Rumsfield is a crackpot. It smells like type of Orwellian mindset that these people who are warriors who oppose the war, need some type of "re-education". Come on now folks our country is founded on dissent and the right to do so.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2005
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It takes extra courage for soldiers and the like to turn against the war. After all, war and deterrence are reasons for having a military, so when they turn against a war, they are turning against themselves in a way. I think more soldiers would do the same, but many do not have that kind of courage (while others genuinely support the war).
  14. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Care to elaborate and what are your views on the immigration / Mexican border issue?
    Last edited: May 30, 2006
  15. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Vicente Fox isn't gassing/murdering/torturing his people across the border.
  16. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    I was not being sarcastic, it was a sincere question.
    You made a comment and I asked you to explain as to why you felt that way and the other question was just a second one, that's all.
  17. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Just things I heard from the people about how the US wanted to arm the Kurds to fight against Saddam but Turkey wouldn't go for it, just the overall feeling I got about Turkey from first hand accounts talking to them. Sometimes you get more truth straight from a persons mouth than any news person.
  18. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    I do agree that you get closer to the truth from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
    You still have not answered my question of your views on the Mexican border and immigration situation, though.

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