Interesting statement by Pete Carroll

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, 1996.

But it's clear that Kraft went with Grier in 1996. So Armey set the board, but it was reported in the newspapers that Kraft deferred to Grier, and that this is what upset Parcells.

Agreed 100% on the Kraft-Grier-Parcells account.

The issue Kraft had was that Parcells was going against the board that Armey set (Glenn vs DE that the G'ints picked or some other guy. I forget).

By all accounts, Grier followed the board.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont think he was really saying that Curtis was better than Drew, or Ty, or anyone else I think he was just saying that it is tough to lose your best players and expect it not to effect you.

I think he was just speaking in generality.

Maybe. I didn't find the comment over the top. I found it compelling that he said the "best player" was Martin- not Bledsoe..

 

[upstater1]

I am pretty sure Parcells wanted Daryl Gardener, not Cedric jones. Jones was drafted two spots before the Terry Glenn pick. So it is definitely not Jones.

As for some of his picks, he drafted Tebucky Jones to be a CB. He turned into a decent safety under Belichick for a couple of years, but he was a bust for the position he was drafted for. Faulk was a bust until Belichick and Weis worked with him and fixed his fumbling problem. Brandon Mitchell was a decent player, but not for a second round pick. Katzemoyer was a head case although he was talented.

It was definitely Cedric Jones. Kraft did not suddenly pop the news to Parcells during the time of the selection. Instead, Kraft initially deferred to Parcells and said he would allow BP to take Jones. That's why Parcells was there in the first place. It was only after the Giants picked Jones that the big fight developed.

We'll never find out what the truth was as to what Parcells wanted to do. He later claimed he wanted to trade down and select a DE. Will McDonough was there and he says BP wanted to pick a DE then and there. he was overruled. i have heard accounts that the target was Regan Upshaw or Duane Clemons or even Tony Brackens who went in the second round, and some have said that Parcells wanted to take a DE and then Eddie Kennison. It's all revisionist history but I believe the first hand accounts from journalists in the room. Whomever Parcells wanted AFTER Cedric Jones was picked, well, Kraft went with Grier's choice instead.

As for Faulk, how could his potential bust-edness pre-Belichick be placed on Grier? I really don't get it.

 

[upstater1]

Who are the 3 probowlers? I dont understand your Glenn comments, are you saying that you think Milloy, Bruschi and Sullivan were probowlers as rookies? Please list who you are calling the 6 or 7 probowlers.

Terry Glenn
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Sean Morey
Damien Woody
Robert Edwards
Greg Spires

 

[upstater1]

Rob, we have a totally different understanding of what transpired back then. I am 100% certain that Curtis was offered a contract in the Spring prior to his last year with the Patriots. How much earlier should they have offered him a contract? He wanted to play with Parcells and for the Jets, and I even recall his mother pushing for New York because of the advertising opportunities in a bigger market. Those were her words, she was very involved.

 

[RDS11]

Who are the 3 probowlers? I dont understand your Glenn comments, are you saying that you think Milloy, Bruschi and Sullivan were probowlers as rookies? Please list who you are calling the 6 or 7 probowlers.

There is only 5 Pro Bowlers on that list, and one of them is Sean Morey as a ST (18 career catches).

The fact is that the 1996 team, which was Parcells heritage, was mismanaged so bad during a short 3 years period that Belichick had to start over in 2000 (which lead the team to 5-11). From the 1999 starters, 7 players on offense and 5 on defense were not in the NFL 2 years later.

 

[Ring 6]

Terry Glenn
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Sean Morey
Damien Woody
Robert Edwards
Greg Spires

I dont think Edwards, Spires made a probowl. I forgot Morey did as a ster, and I dont remember if Woody did or not. Did Glenn actually make a probowl?

 

[Rob0729]

Terry Glenn
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Sean Morey
Damien Woody
Robert Edwards
Greg Spires

Edwards didn't make the Pro Bowl, he was invited to play the rookie game at the Pro Bowl.

Spires never made it to a Pro Bowl.

 

[Rob0729]

It was definitely Cedric Jones. Kraft did not suddenly pop the news to Parcells during the time of the selection. Instead, Kraft initially deferred to Parcells and said he would allow BP to take Jones. That's why Parcells was there in the first place. It was only after the Giants picked Jones that the big fight developed.

We'll never find out what the truth was as to what Parcells wanted to do. He later claimed he wanted to trade down and select a DE. Will McDonough was there and he says BP wanted to pick a DE then and there. he was overruled. i have heard accounts that the target was Regan Upshaw or Duane Clemons or even Tony Brackens who went in the second round, and some have said that Parcells wanted to take a DE and then Eddie Kennison. It's all revisionist history but I believe the first hand accounts from journalists in the room. Whomever Parcells wanted AFTER Cedric Jones was picked, well, Kraft went with Grier's choice instead.

As for Faulk, how could his potential bust-edness pre-Belichick be placed on Grier? I really don't get it.

I don't know why a fight would have developed only after Parcells found out that even if Kraft let him pick whoever he wanted, the guy he wanted was already off the board when the Pats selected. Jones was drafted fourth, the Pats selected Glenn with the 6th pick.

Faulk was a bust for his first four or five year or so in the league. The fact that Belichick figured out a way to revive his career doesn't make him a good pick by Grier. When would you consider a 2nd round pick that takes 5 years to develop into a solid role player a good pick? No matter how you want to spin it, Faulk was not worth his selection status. If he was what he was with the Pats from 2002 on for his entire career, you would have a good argument. The Pats got five wasted years out of him. Faulk turned into a great role player, but was a bust for too long.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, we have a totally different understanding of what transpired back then. I am 100% certain that Curtis was offered a contract in the Spring prior to his last year with the Patriots. How much earlier should they have offered him a contract? He wanted to play with Parcells and for the Jets, and I even recall his mother pushing for New York because of the advertising opportunities in a bigger market. Those were her words, she was very involved.

Whether he was offered a contract the spring before his last year or not, Grier burnt the bridges because of his ego rubbing it into Faulk's face by claiming to be a genius for having a top RB in the league for a scrub salary. I don't think the Pats made him a serious contract offer though. Grier was a moron and his ego in this case showed how poorly he handled player relations.

It was reported at the time of the Jets burn of the Pats with Martin that Martin wasn't happy with the way his contract situation was handled.

 

[Triumph]

Carrol would not have won anything anyway. He isnt a good NFL HC and I predict that he will fail in Seattle.

And, Martin is a traitor that got what he deserved - no SB ring.

 

[upstater1]

I dont think Edwards, Spires made a probowl. I forgot Morey did as a ster, and I dont remember if Woody did or not. Did Glenn actually make a probowl?

For some reason I thought Edwards was at the Pro Bowl as a player.

As for spires, I quickly googled and saw that he was a Pro Bowl alternate the year he had 8 sacks, but he never got the chance, so the list is down to 6.

Yes, Woody and Glenn both made the Pro Bowl in their careers.

 

[upstater1]

I don't know why a fight would have developed only after Parcells found out that even if Kraft let him pick whoever he wanted, the guy he wanted was already off the board when the Pats selected. Jones was drafted fourth, the Pats selected Glenn with the 6th pick.

Faulk was a bust for his first four or five year or so in the league. The fact that Belichick figured out a way to revive his career doesn't make him a good pick by Grier. When would you consider a 2nd round pick that takes 5 years to develop into a solid role player a good pick? No matter how you want to spin it, Faulk was not worth his selection status. If he was what he was with the Pats from 2002 on for his entire career, you would have a good argument. The Pats got five wasted years out of him. Faulk turned into a great role player, but was a bust for too long.

You're asking me why Parcells flipped his lid? I can't explain it. I only know that he did. He wanted Jones. Kraft assured him he could pick Jones. When Jones was gone, Parcells wanted another DE like Brackens. At that point, Kraft went with Grier, and Parcells flipped.

I have to say, I can't understand your Faulk argument at all. I mean, how can you call it a Grier bust pick? Grier picked him, and the coaching failed. Faulk has been a really good player.

Finally, about the curtis Martin post below, it happened so long ago we should agree to disagree. I know he was offered a contract a year early, but I didn't know about bad blood with Grier, but regardless, from hearing Curtis and his mother speak--and the stars in his eyes from dating NY resident Toni Braxton at the time--plus his feelings for Parcells, I tend to believe it had a lot more to do with those factors. Regardless, the poison pill made it a done deal. There is no way that Curtis's feelings about Grier mattered at all when it came to the poison pill.

 

[RDS11]

Faulk was a bust for his first four or five year or so in the league. The fact that Belichick figured out a way to revive his career doesn't make him a good pick by Grier. When would you consider a 2nd round pick that takes 5 years to develop into a solid role player a good pick? No matter how you want to spin it, Faulk was not worth his selection status. If he was what he was with the Pats from 2002 on for his entire career, you would have a good argument. The Pats got five wasted years out of him. Faulk turned into a great role player, but was a bust for too long.

In Super Bowl 36, Faulk was on the sideline for the game winning drive. JR Redmond was playing the role that Faulk is now known for.

That being said, he is 3rd for rushing yardage for players drafted in 1999, behind Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James. Grier didn't make that many good draft picks, but we have to give him that one.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Probably one of the dumbest moves in Patriots history. In fact, it's not like Martin broke the bank. I think he signed a 6 year 36 million dollar contract at that time. Not only did they let a young, dependable RB go, but then had to use that 1st round pick to replace him. How can you improve your team if you re-draft the players you just lost? That move bothered me until the Pats traded for Corey Dillon. That was a long freaking time.

As for Robert Edwards, his injury was unfortunate and I believe that BB would've been a HC somewhere else and Carroll would've still would've been head coach of the Pats had Edwards played in '99. The Pats offense was rolling in '99 until they had to run the football. You know they would've easily won the division with Testervade's injury and made the playoffs if they had a running game. Terry Allen in the backfield was a complete joke.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Probably one of the dumbest moves in Patriots history. In fact, it's not like Martin broke the bank. I think he signed a 6 year 36 million dollar contract at that time. Not only did they let a young, dependable RB go, but then had to use that 1st round pick to replace him. How can you improve your team if you re-draft the players you just lost? That move bothered me until the Pats traded for Corey Dillon. That was a long freaking time.

Agreed. Grier failed to recognize CM as a special talent. I also agree seeing him walk was the biggest FO blunder in the 90s

As for Robert Edwards, his injury was unfortunate and I believe that BB would've been a HC somewhere else and Carroll would've still would've been head coach of the Pats had Edwards played in '99. The Pats offense was rolling in '99 until they had to run the football. You know they would've easily won the division with Testervade's injury and made the playoffs if they had a running game. Terry Allen in the backfield was a complete joke.

Pats would not have won the division. Back then, Indy was in the AFCE and finished with a 13-3 record compared to the Pats 8-8 finish.

 

[upstater1]

Probably one of the dumbest moves in Patriots history. In fact, it's not like Martin broke the bank. I think he signed a 6 year 36 million dollar contract at that time. Not only did they let a young, dependable RB go, but then had to use that 1st round pick to replace him. How can you improve your team if you re-draft the players you just lost? That move bothered me until the Pats traded for Corey Dillon. That was a long freaking time.

But, there was a poison pill in the contract. If he played for the Patriots, he would keep his signing bonus and be a free agent in a year. I'm not sure Kraft was keen to do that.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Pats would not have won the division. Back then, Indy was in the AFCE and finished with a 13-3 record compared to the Pats 8-8 finish.

I still feel that having a running back would've changed the Pats season. Remember how the Pats started 6-2 and in 1st place in the AFC East? Also, they barely lost to the Colts in the RCA dome. I still feel at worst the Pats would've made the playoffs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I still feel that having a running back would've changed the Pats season. Remember how the Pats started 6-2 and in 1st place in the AFC East? Also, they barely lost to the Colts in the RCA dome. I still feel at worst the Pats would've made the playoffs.

Needed to go back and look. 11 years ago.... WOW.

With CM or RE in the backfield, 10-6 is reasonable. 'Fins got in w/ 9-7.

Either way, it was for the best. They get in- no BB

 

[zeke mowatt]

As great as Curtis was for the pats (his best years were in NY). Aside from the one highlight reel run in XXXI, he did squat. I mean nothing. Absolutey shut down by green bay...and the pats fed him the ball early and often in the first half. Think he rushed for a whopping 40 yards or something like that. If he had contributed anything to take the pressure of Bledsoe, the pats dynasty starts right there.

He sat the last three or four regular season games the following year. Did not suit up in the playoffs. Abdominal injury if I remember correctly.Wonder how far the pats go that year with him on the field? Any doubt they score more than 6 points VS pitt in the divisional game? the Pats AT LEAST are back in the title game that year and possibly return to the SB.

Martin was great, no question, pats got lucky drafting him so late. But he frustrated me quite often. The guy always seemed as likey to LOSE yardage a gain it..............

Oh and like was mentioned earlier, I will always wonder what the pats could have done with Robert Edwards.....he had game, shame his carreer was cut short. Latter half of the nineties the patiots were desperate for a running game......My guess is they would have continued to contend, possibly brought home a championship or two..........