Interesting question - Jets vs. Patriots drafts

[cstjohn17]

The Pats prefer 'value' and quantity while the Jets believe quality trumps quantity (Revis, Harris, Sanchez, etc.)

Are four 2nd rounder really better than one impact player (probowl caliber, top 15 pick) and one good player (low round 2, picks 33-40)?

Good question, knee jerk reaction is that the one impact player is worth a lot. The right player can change an entire unit (offense, defense). It some ways it is the same theory of known quantity versus potential (Garnett versus 10 young unproven players).

Taking more quantity is kind of like coaching your bet.. If this one doesn't work maybe the next one will, in most cases all the players will just be JAGs.

 

[mayoclinic]

The Pats prefer 'value' and quantity while the Jets believe quality trumps quantity (Revis, Harris, Sanchez, etc.)

Are four 2nd rounder really better than one impact player (probowl caliber, top 15 pick) and one good player (low round 2, picks 33-40)?

Good question, knee jerk reaction is that the one impact player is worth a lot. The right player can change an entire unit (offense, defense). It some ways it is the same theory of known quantity versus potential (Garnett versus 10 young unproven players).

Taking more quantity is kind of like coaching your bet.. If this one doesn't work maybe the next one will, in most cases all the players will just be JAGs.

In 2009 the Jets traded up to #5 for Mark Sanchez. So far, it looks like a good move, bjut it's still very early. In 2007 the Jets traded up to #14 for Darrell Revis. 2 years later, it looks like a great move, with Revis moving into the elite shutdown CB league.

In 2008 the Jets took Vernon Gholston #6. So far it looks like a terrible move.

Harris was a mid-2nd rounder, by no means an elite prospect. Dustin Keller was taken at the end of the 1st round in 2008. Those moves have worked out well so far, but they weren't sure things at the time.

You win some, you lose some. We've done pretty well with our early picks. If you win more than you lose, you've done well overall.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The Pats prefer 'value' and quantity while the Jets believe quality trumps quantity (Revis, Harris, Sanchez, etc.)

Are four 2nd rounder really better than one impact player (probowl caliber, top 15 pick) and one good player (low round 2, picks 33-40)?

Good question, knee jerk reaction is that the one impact player is worth a lot. The right player can change an entire unit (offense, defense). It some ways it is the same theory of known quantity versus potential (Garnett versus 10 young unproven players).

Taking more quantity is kind of like coaching your bet.. If this one doesn't work maybe the next one will, in most cases all the players will just be JAGs.

I think it depends on where your team is in the process. If your team is an Oakland, then I think Quantity beats quality.
If your team is an elite team, then I think Quality beats Quantity.

 

[BritPat]

It depends on needs. The Pats had a need for several young defensive prospects - they bagged one player many thought was a first rounder, and two guys who were border-line first round.

And value can sometimes mean trading up, not down. Look at Vince - many expected him to be long gone in 2004, but when he was still around - boom.

 

[Gunnails]

Lets see, under Tannenbaum the Jets traded up for.

Revis
Sanchez
Kellar
Shonne Green (3rd round)
Kellen Clemens (2nd round)

Magold came from the John Abraham trade, and Leon (4th round) came from the Herm Edwards trade, Dbrick and Ghoulston were slotted picks.

The Jets have also traded down under Tannebaum.

Quality is nice but leads to a loss of depth that then must be filled Via free agency. Spendy.

Quantity is nice but then you miss out on some elite talent. Great for depth.

In the end it is a crap shoot.

 

[reflexblue]

I think it depends on where your team is in the process. If your team is an Oakland, then I think Quantity beats quality.
If your team is an elite team, then I think Quality beats Quantity.

A very good point if your team is good than you have no real specific holes to fill you use a shotgun approach.

 

[mayoclinic]

Lets see, under Tannenbaum the Jets traded up for.

Revis
Sanchez
Kellar
Shonne Green (3rd round)
Kellen Clemens (2nd round)

Magold came from the John Abraham trade, and Leon (4th round) came from the Herm Edwards trade, Dbrick and Ghoulston were slotted picks.

The Jets have also traded down under Tannebaum.

Quality is nice but leads to a loss of depth that then must be filled Via free agency. Spendy.

Quantity is nice but then you miss out on some elite talent. Great for depth.

In the end it is a crap shoot.

Pretty much what I said ... see post 2.

Either way works if you hit on your picks. Both ways suck if you miss. Everyone misses some of the time, but if you hit more than you miss you generally get better over time.

Overall since 2006 Tannenbaum has hit more than he's missed (Gholston and Clemens being the biggest misses in that period based on performance to date; Revis, Harris, Mangold, Keller and possibly Sanchez as the biggest hits), and the Jets have become a pretty talented team as a result. Overall since 2006 the Pats have had some pretty nice hits (Mayo, Meriweather, Ghost), but an awful lot of misses (at least up till 2009, which is still too early to evaluate). Some of those misses have resulted in talent gaps in key places (OLB, TE, WR).

 

[Gunnails]

Pretty much what I said ... see post 2.

Either way works if you hit on your picks. Both ways suck if you miss. Everyone misses some of the time, but if you hit more than you miss you generally get better over time.

Overall since 2006 Tannenbaum has hit more than he's missed (Gholston and Clemens being the biggest misses in that period based on performance to date; Revis, Harris, Mangold, Keller and possibly Sanchez as the biggest hits), and the Jets have become a pretty talented team as a result. Overall since 2006 the Pats have had some pretty nice hits (Mayo, Meriweather, Ghost), but an awful lot of misses (at least up till 2009, which is still too early to evaluate). Some of those misses have resulted in talent gaps in key places (OLB, TE, WR).

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Well I agree with post #2., and #7.

 

[cstjohn17]

I think it depends on where your team is in the process. If your team is an Oakland, then I think Quantity beats quality.
If your team is an elite team, then I think Quality beats Quantity.

That is a good observation, IMO the Patriots would have been better served trying for the home run rather than adding a JAG for depth.

Example Revis, changes the whole defense, but then again maybe this is a rebuilding year.

 

[reflexblue]

A very good point if your team is good than you have no real specific holes to fill you use a shotgun approach.

I meant the other way around.....

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The draft is one part of the Jester's equation, they spent a great deal in Free Agency to put workable pieces in place around those draft picks people are now coveting. NE currently has one high priced Free Agent - Adalius Thomas - and a selection of budget conscious Free Agents to team with their "quantity" draft approach. What we've seen is NE has remained competitive for the post-season each year, while the Jests are hit and miss - mostly miss. If NE has a first round draft pick struggle with injury, it doesn't cripple them, if NY has a first round draft pick struggle - for whatever reason - that one investment costs them as much as nearly all of NE's investments for the past 3-4 seasons has cost them. Covet Revis and think what he'd do for NE's defense all you like, but let's not be blind to the balance sheet.

 

[mayoclinic]

The draft is one part of the Jester's equation, they spent a great deal in Free Agency to put workable pieces in place around those draft picks people are now coveting. NE currently has one high priced Free Agent - Adalius Thomas - and a selection of budget conscious Free Agents to team with their "quantity" draft approach. What we've seen is NE has remained competitive for the post-season each year, while the Jests are hit and miss - mostly miss. If NE has a first round draft pick struggle with injury, it doesn't cripple them, if NY has a first round draft pick struggle - for whatever reason - that one investment costs them as much as nearly all of NE's investments for the past 3-4 seasons has cost them. Covet Revis and think what he'd do for NE's defense all you like, but let's not be blind to the balance sheet.

We enjoyed ridiculing him, but Tannenbaum has made some good moves:

1. Trading disgruntled John Abraham to Atlanta in 2006 for the 29th pick in the draft, used to draft center Nick Mangold, who is the anchor of their OL. Abraham was a top player, but wanted too much money. Sound familiar?

2. Going into the 2006 draft, the Jets had #4, 29 and 35. Tannenbaum drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson at #4 and Nick Mangold at #29 to build his line, then traded #35 to Washington for #53 (used to draft Kellen Clemons, who didn't pan out as their QB of the future) and a 2007 2nd round pick which turned out to be #37). Sounds like something the Pats would do.

3. Going into the 2007 draft, the Jets had #25, 37 and #59. They traded #37 to Chicago for Thomas Jones and #63. They packaged #25 and #59 (and change) to move up for Darrell Revis. And they packaged #63, their 3rd round pick (#89) and change to move up to 46 for David Harris. All good moves. Sounds a bit like us packaging #52 and #75 in 2006 to move up to #36 for Chad Jackson, except that the Jets actually picked a good player to trade up for. Twice.

4. Going into the 2008 draft, the Jets had #6 and #36. They got Kris Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th from Carolina to anchor their 3-4, traded up to #30 from 36 to get Dustin Keller, and got a 2009 2nd round pick for Jonathan Vilma, who no longer fit their defensive approach. All that was somewhat overshadowed by the Vernon Gholston pick at #6, which hasn't worked out so far.

Give them credit. They've gone from nowhere in 2006 to having a very competitive and talented team in 2009. No, they're not as deep as NE, they haven't been as savvy with the salary cap, they aren't as loaded for future drafts, and the odds are low that they will be able to stay competitive as long as NE. But they've done a good job, and right now it is paying off.