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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Patsmaniac, Jan 18, 2008.

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  1. Patsmaniac

    Patsmaniac Rookie

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  2. Watson's IQ

    Watson's IQ Rookie

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    Gotta say, doesn't look realistic to me at all. I know Parcells didn't draft Beck, but I have to believe they'd at least want to take a look at what he can offer before using a top pick on another QB (especially one who, while good, is far from a sure thing).

    Also, I can't see the Falcons NOT taking a QB, Norwood and Dunn can still run it decently for them, but if they're going to start a turnaround, it's going to have to come from solidifying the QB position.

    As for us, I would be shocked if Phillips is the pick. I agree that if they don't trade the pick, a defender in the secondary is the most likely pickup, but I have to believe they'd prefer one of the top corners, especially if Asante leaves and considering they drafted a 1st round safety last year. If it played out like above, I also wouldn't be surprised to see them take a look at Gholston, who I think will be a beast.
  3. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

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    Kenny Phillips at #7.......no chance. Why would we draft a S when the need could be CB if Samuel and Gay leave

    Rdoney, Sanders, Merriweather, AND Phillips at two S positions ?
  4. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    I can see the Phillips pick because he's just as good as Landry was coming out last year but it all depends on what Harrison does. If he chooses to retire then i think they might go that way.
  5. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Ummmm, this is just my opinion, but Phillips couldn't carry Landry's jock. I'm not sure Phillips is a first rounder if he came out last year.
  6. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    This is just my opinion, but I kind of wish you hadn't said that.

    It's well known that I've liked both Maualuga (stayed in school) and Phillips for NE since the 2007 draft, so that pick wouldn't surprise me.

    Now, I don't know if they'll go Safety in the first (especially after selecting Meriweather in the first last year), but I do think Safety should be among their early (first four-five) selections.

    OT, CB, and OLB seem to be the other main options (in my opinion).

    CB: There's a decent amount of CB's in this draft, but not really any who grade out as good value at 7th overall. If NE drafts a CB in the first it's likely going to be Cason, and I expect a trade down would come first.

    Safety: This just happens to be among the few positions with a huge dropoff after the top overall prospect. So, maybe NE grabs Phillips knowing they'd like to draft a Safety, and there isn't another Safety in the class with his ability? Maybe another team trades up with NE for Phillips knowing he's the only top level Safety, and NE grabs an additional pick? I do think Phillips value is closer to 10th-14th overall, but maybe the lack of top level Safeties will improve his status. So, I wouldn't really consider it a "reach".

    OT: If Jake Long falls I could see them pulling the trigger, but he's probably going top 2-5. Clady could be an option, but is he good enough to push Light over to RT? That's what I'd expect from an OT taken at 7th overall.

    OLB: Chris Long seems like the main option, and everyone around him seems to believe NE's system would be the perfect fit. I've thought his pass coverage could use some work, but maybe he could drop a few pounds, and be more effective in this area. NE's top level coaching wouldn't hurt either. But, would he even be available? There's at least three teams selecting before NE who could have Chris as their first option.

    Gholston's an option, but I'm not sure about his value at 7th overall. If NE could trade down to the 12-16 range, then he could be good value. I think you believe he's a better prospect than Spencer, yes? The problem is that Spencer was a late first round pick, and never really projected much higher. I'd also say I believe Spencer came into the league with a little more polish, and we both liked him from the early going.


    For DonBlackmon55:

    Rodney's one of my favorite players, but he's getting older, and close to retirement. He's even talked about retiring over the past year, or so.

    Sanders is a nice Safety, but he's not elite, and his coverage still needs to improve. He's also a free agent after the 2008 season, and I could see a few teams offering him something. Maybe he sticks around for the long term and continues to develop, but I'm not counting on his ever getting much better.

    Meriweather should develop into a very good Safety, and will likely see most of his playing time at FS. That's one Safety position with a potential top level player locked up long term. What about Strong Safety? Also, having two elite Safeties would help your CB's, and give you more flexibility in the secondary.
  7. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

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    In case RH retires, and Sanders is allowed to leave, You really think BB would have TWO starting S combo of Merriwather AND Phillips with combined experience of 3 yrs for the 2009 season ? :eek: It has taken Merriweather a whole season to play maybe 20 snaps. Sanders will not be going anywhere. It would be the most idiotic move to draft another S when you have 3 total CB's signed for 2008-2009 season.

    RH skills are not diminished to the point he retires. I'm sure he will be back for 2008 season to help in the transition if BB decides to bring an EXPERIENCED S as RH replacement for 2009 season

    Philips is not even in the same league as Landry. Let's not kid ourselves. He has the size, but he is very undisciplined, and showed nothing in his Jr yr campaign. This was the time to step up to show himself to be the ELITE Safety from THE U, in the footsteps of Ed Reed, Sean Taylor
  8. DonBlackmon55

    DonBlackmon55 Rookie

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    PS : It would not shock me Pats go after Ken Hamlin in FA, especially if RH does decide to hang up his cleets after 2 more wins :D this playoffs
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I like the idea of having two good coverage safeties. It's a copy cat league and we'll see more teams trying to spread defenses out like the Patriots are this year. Safeties' coverage has become more important and I think that trend will continue for a while.
  10. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    I'm not convinced Phillips is really all that impressive. I only watched him in two games, but I was specifically scouting him for a fit with the Pats. I didn't think he was very scrappy, and certainly not interested in helping against the run, even to stick his head in the pileup at the end of a play to keep the RB from falling forward. That doesn't sound like a fit, just in terms of playing style. We want hitters and tacklers more than we want speed cover guys.

    Frankly, I'd still take Zibikowski as our project at S to play behind Sanders. He's a tough guy, and will throw himself around. Not as fast as Kenny, but is Rodney really that fast?
  11. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    I think Meriweather played more than 20 snaps in the Patriots last game...
    He's played good for a few weeks now, too.

    Selecting someone like Phillips now and allowing him to develop for one season before having to start isn't at all "idiotic". Also, I'd like to see Sanders come back, but as a rotational player sharing time, not as a fulltime starter. He's been sharing time with Meriweather lately (especially on passing downs), so BB might agree. Maybe he could develop into something more, but we'll have to see.

    We all know NE seems weak at CB going forward, and they'll need to bring in some help via the draft and free agency. But, we're talking about the 7th overall pick here. Who's the CB they're going to select at 7th overall? There isn't a CB in the class worth the 7th overall pick, and there's a number of talented CB's who should be available in the second and third rounds. So, I wouldn't fixate on CB and think that's their main need with that first pick. The Patriots will probably select two CB's in the draft though, and maybe two of their first five picks will be spent on that particular position. Remember, Samual was a 4th rounder, Hobbs a 3rd, and Gay a UFA, so NE can develop CB's without having to take them early.

    Sanders is among the very few Safeties they've been able to get anything out of post second round, and this years crop at Safety happens to be one of the weaker units of the class.

    Rodney himself hinted at retiring at least twice within the past two years, which is the main reason I bring that possiblity up. It's not because I believe his skill has declined, as I really like him (have since his charger days). But, we can't think he's going to play forever either.

    I posted a thread on the main forum suggesting Hamlin as an option for NE during the 2007 offseason, and thought maybe they'd give him a look. I was kind of surprised NE didn't even look at him, but oh well. Maybe he could be alright in NE's system, but NE's having any interest in him remains to be seen.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  12. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Phillips has very good coverage ability for a Safety, and it's become important for your Safeties to have good coverage ability, as this league has developed over the past few years.

    I've watched At least 12-14 of Tom's games at ND. He gets burned deep, and can be out of position in coverage. I'd think about taking him in the fourth or fifth as a "project", but no higher.
  13. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Correct.

    Yep.

    Agree.

    Think Rodney.

    Very high on my list of Pats prospects, even though he's not the fastest. He's smart, a playmaker, hard hitter, strong in run support -- and has great hands. Has the important intangibles BB usually seeks in a prospect. And you're right, Rodney is not all that fast -- but is a team MVP. Safeties are suppose to arrive on time, and smart ones usually do. Tebucky was very fast -- but arrived late far too often.

    Phillips isn't worth the #7...and as the saying goes, someone has to be ranked best at each position, but it doesn't mean he fits the Pats.

    JMO.
  14. Patsmaniac

    Patsmaniac Rookie

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    I follow Notre Dame football very closely and do not see Tom Z, being an impact NFL player. He does not have the speed to be an every down safety. He is to slow to cover in college, let alone at the speed of the NFL. I think he could play on some kickoff coverage, etc. I know he returns punts, but with mediocre speed at best, he wont be doing that in the NFL. Mark my words.

    Just my opinion.
  15. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Yes, he has been burned MANY times, but he still has the qualities that BB may want as a developmental project.

    BB drafted Sanders in the 4th, Guss Scott in the 3rd, and Dexter Reid in the 4th -- all as projects -- not immediate impact players. Heck, even Rodney was drafted in the 5th in ancient times. The 4th or 5th seems about right for Tom.

    We'll soon find out what his speed truly is. If he (or anyone) is too slow to play the position, then making a roster may prove very difficult. But regarding 40 times, I think we need some perspective:

    Sanders ran a 4.65 40 at his Pro Day -- yet we drafted him. Welker also ran a 4.65 40 at his Pro Day, and three 40 times of 4.61/4.64/4.68 at the Combine. Most would agree that 4.6's are slow by NFL standards, yet some players obviously have OTHER qualities/skills which make them appealing enough to take a gamble. [SIZE=-1]Zbikowski may be one of them (or not).[/SIZE]
  16. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    This is interesting and I'm not surprised in the least. When I woke up this morning, it's funny, Kenny Phillips name popped into my head. Ya, I'm a sick puppy I know, but it did.

    I was thinking that after the top 6 go in whatever order it is, think about it, the highest value at that point is Kenny Phillips and why not take him. Think about having (Phillips and Meriweather) together at safety for the next 5-7 years. The two UofM compadres, together again. This is the equivalent of Dennis Smith and Steve Atwater and those 2 guys together were the staple of the great Denver defenses.

    I'm all for this, Phillips is grading out really high right now and I can see him really going off at the combine. They say he's extremely smart, picks up defensive concepts quickly and is an absolute defensive sponge. This sounds like a BB guy to me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2008
  17. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Welker's forty times were slow, but I believe his 3 cone and short shuttle where good/very good, right?
  18. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Agreed

    ten char
  19. chowder

    chowder Rookie

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    i was gonna say the same thing. Welker may not have tremendous straight line breakaway speed but he looks quicker and shiftier than most on the field.
  20. borisman

    borisman Rookie

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    Phillips can flat out play when he wants to. It's true he's not that interested in being a physical presence, ala the late Sean Taylor. But he's very good in coverage and reading plays. He has some qualities of Ed Reed and LaRon Landry. His play has slipped from his Sophomore season. I would take him in at 15-20, but not at 7. If he works out at the combine his numbers will be outstanding and on par with the most recent elite safeties. But his desire to play hard is questionable. Maybe he needs the proper coaching and motivation ($$$$).
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