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Interesting AFCE cap analysis from Jason

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MoLewisrocks, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting analysis of how the Pats are utilizing/spending their cap dollars. Haven't seen this kind of dead cap expense since Bill turned over the roster betwen 2000-2003 and largely got rid of a lot of dead wood he inherited. As Jason notes, a some point dead cap is preferable to dead wood. This time Bill is getting rid of his own while still seemingly generating some more in the process. Strange times here.

    Jason also did a similar analysis for the JETS, Bills and Dolphins.

    New England Patriots: An Offseason Salary Cap Review

    New York Jets: An Offseason Salary Cap Review

    Buffalo Bills: An Offseason Salary Cap Review

    Miami Dolphins: An Offseason Salary Cap Review
     
  2. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The cap has been a non-issue for the patriots. We have done all we want to do and still have $9M left to carry over (more if we get some back for Fenene and/or Gallery).

    Even with in-season spending, we are likely to have enough carryover to offset the $4.5M of carryover 2013 dead money.
     
  3. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up

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    According to this, the Jets won't be able to turn over their roster much next year, so what we see in 2012 is what we will see in 2013.

    And, the Dolphins are significantly weaker in talent than the other three teams.
     
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "We" really don't know that. And absent the Brady restructure we'd be over the cap.
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Being able to operate within the cap has been a non-issue, but the cap has not.
    There are tons of acquisitions BB would have loved to make if the cap were not an issue, starting with a Welker extension.
    If the cap was a non-issue, we would have signed better players than 85, Gonzalez, Branch, Gaffney, Stallworth as WRs instead of throwing a vet minimum net over whoever was standing still.
    Fanene would have been a younger, better fit less likely to be gone. Carpenter would have been someone who could play. We would have spent money on a backup OT, or maybe overpaid Light to come back for one more year.
    We would have had real safeties last year if the cap was no issue.
    You have been saying we cut guys we want on the team in order to bring them back after week 1 so we don't 'risk' having to pay them a 50k game check if we cut them later in the year.
     
  6. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Can someone please explain to me how someone who provides such an important service for fans of the entire division, and someone who seems so grounded in logic and fair play....be a JET FAN??!!. :eek: It just doesn't seem possible that he comes from that same diseased gene pool that produced the likes of Ray Ray, and SG3 in such abundance. I need someone to please explain this anomaly

    I mean this is obviously a smart guy....and a good one. How can we stand by and watch as he is forced to suffer the horrors of being a Jet fan. How can we call ourselves compassionate human beings if we just turn our heads and ignore his pain and anguish.

    We stood by and did nothing while Hitler planned the murder of millions n the late 30's. We watched in shocked silence the slaughter in Cambodia in the 70's We've even stood by and did nothing while they stole the soul from the Boston Red Sox in 2012. So I ask you, can we just accept that Jason must suffer the hellfire of an affliction that was likely laid upon him when he was a but mere innocent child? :mad:

    SOMETHING must be done. But what can we do. This isn't a simple disease you can cure like cancer. This is an insidious sickness that has infected an entire tri-state metropolitan area, Something probably caused by massive overcrowding and exacerbated by the NJ chemical pollution. Clearly a mutation that if left unchecked poses a national health crisis. Thankfully the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta has found that it seems only to affect those wthl IQ's under 80, so the country as a whole doesn't seem in danger. But that fact makes Jason's case even more peculiar and sad

    Maybe we might have to realize that there IS nothing we can do. Maybe we have to be accepting and just let him know that we are there for him. That we we be a helping hand for that inevitable time when the Jet season is going down in flames, he will have someone who he knows can turn to. Sadly it probably all we can do. We are here for you Jason....when it's time for you to enter the light. We'll be right here, buddy.


    .)
     
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Geographical birth defect. :cry2: ;) Kind of like being born a Sox fan.

    Most Patsfans are more lucky than anything.
     
  8. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Can someone give an analysis on the dead money. I'm blown away by the Pats' chart of dead money compared to all of the other team's charts. Exactly what is dead money (players no longer on the team)?
     
  9. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    There are 2 areas that bear close watching per the cap. First is Brady's contract. There has to be something done this next off season that will be a permanent solution to the final years of his contract. Secondly is the dead money issue. Having 15% of your cap tied up in dead money can't be good. Even under the best of circumstances, dead money is usually the result of a financial commitment that didn't go as well as expected.

    Finally after watching so many of the promising signings of the spring go out the door this fall, I think it might be time to do some 20-20 hindsight. :D

    I bet we wish we were willing to pay those few extra million more for Red Bryant right now, as opposed to those empty dollars left by Fanene.
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure which failed signings you considered 'promising'.
    Other than Fanene, Lloyd and Gaffney, there wasn't much other than taking some shots at aging or injured vets hoping they had something left.

    As far as the dead money, you really have to find where it came from to know whether its bad management or bad luck due to injuries.
     
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    To summarize:


    Fish: Will have lots of cap room next year, but have an historically doofus front office.

    Jets: Have no room to do squat next year against their cap

    Bills: 30% of their cap is to the DL and spend per O position only for the starters - - backups get bupkis. So pray for health.

    Pats: 18% dead money, but percentages are the most equal position by position in the division. Most level allocation. With all that still have $9 million which can be allocated to next year for big splashes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  12. Urgent

    Urgent In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    Dead money is the spaghetti shaped stain on the wall that never washes off.

    In cap accounting it is the cap cost of guaranteed payments to players not on your team. That is if you sign a player to a two year deal with a two million dollar signing bonus and then release him, you paid him that money and have to account for It against the cap
     
  13. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Yup. It's like alimony. You are contractually (legally) obligated to pay it every month.
     
  14. Patsrock

    Patsrock Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Brady can't restructure, it would have to be a brand new deal.
     
  15. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mo is talking about the restructure Brady did earlier this year, not a hypothetical future one.

    That said, you're probably right in that there isn't a whole lot more that the Pats can do to make Brady more cap-friendly absent giving him an extension.
     
  16. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    The New England Patriots are looking good from a salary cap perspective in calendar year 2013:

    New England Patriots Salary Cap 2013

    The New England Patriots would have looked even better had Bill Belichick not invested recently in two ex-Bengals.

    For reference, the New England Patriots salary cap for this year is posted below:

    New England Patriots Salary Cap 2012
     
  17. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Surwe it can. Might not be, but consider that all teams sign guys who don't work oukt. The smart teams cut their losses, take the cap hit and move on. The bad teams avoid dead money by keeping the dead-weight players. They still pay the money, but have less-good players on hte team.

    Which is best? Obviously, to only sign players who will be stars. This could be helped by only drafting players who will make it big in the NFL. If BB can't get this done, we should replace him with someone smarter, such as a guy who only buys stocks that go way up after purchase and only sells stocks that go down after selling them. If we can't find such a person, as an alternative, the Pats could hire a publisher who only buys novels that will end up being best sellers or a producer who only makes a movie if it becomes a best seller.

    Okay, seriously? Most of the dead cap money comes from a guy who had a pre-existing condition, and the rest came from roster decisions to sign better players. I'm okay with that.
     
  18. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

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    Dead money sources shown below. We still carry Warren, Bodden and Light there, but the most annoying things are Ocho and Fanene at #4 and #5.

    TOTAL $18,369,811
    Light, Matt OL $3,000,000
    Bodden, Leigh CB $3,000,000
    Warren, Ty DE $2,750,012
    Banta-Cain, Tully LB $2,000,000
    Ochocinco, Chad WR $1,683,333
    Fanene, Jonathan DE $1,383,333
    Kaczur, Nick OL $875,000
    Butler, Darius CB $542,500
    Gallery, Robert OL $500,000
    Wright, Mike DT $450,000
    Branch, Deion WR $400,000
    Price, Taylor WR $352,290
    Koppen, Dan OL $325,000
    Tate, Brandon WR $188,750
    Gaffney, Jabar WR $150,000
    Smith, Lee TE $128,610
    Addai, Joseph RB $125,000
    Stroud, Marcus DT $75,000
    Carter, Markell DE $70,539
    Ihedigbo, James S $65,000
    Koutouvides, Niko LB $65,000
    Warren, Gerard DE $60,000
    Stallworth, Donte WR $50,000
    Weston, Kade DT $19,850
    Williams, Malcolm CB $18,000
    Warren, Jeremiah OL $16,000
    Maneri, Steven OL $15,000
    Ohrnberger, Rich OL $15,000
    Ebert, Jeremy WR $12,050
    Lavarias, Aaron DE $12,000
    Brown, Sergio S $9,708
    Woods, Corey OL $8,000
    Tarpinian, Jeff LB $6,000
    Berry, Mike OL $5,334
    Austin, Thomas OL $5,000
    Yeatman, Will TE $4,667
    Nurse, Clay DE $3,334
    Silvestro, Alex DE $2,334
    Coulson, Ryan LB $1,667
    Roark, Matt WR $833
    Ross, Jeremy WR $667
     
  19. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

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    Considering that dead money issue, I think that it has been handled ok. Only Fanene, Ocho and Butler stick out as "overpaid" in terms of signing bonus depreciation.

    EDIT: Add TBC to the list as well. His best days are so far behind us so the fact that they thought that he would still be with us and worth 2,000,000 guaranteed in 2012 was mad optimism.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  20. jason423

    jason423 Practice Squad Player

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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    The one thing that I have wondered in digging more and more into the Patriots cap is how much things might have changed if there was some added input on the cap/personnel decisions for the team. The team has such a great combination with Brady and Belichick that it can absorb the bad deals here and there to the point where Id imagine you dont even notice it, but I wonder how much better they would be without them. New England seems to go after alot of mediocre on the downside guys in hopes of getting something from them. Ocho and Shaun Ellis were two examples of recent signings like that. That would have amounted to probably an additional 6 million or so in cap room this year that could have delayed the Brady restructure or been used for better young veteran talent. Its tough to argue a team could be much better than the 12-14 wins the team seems to get every year but in hindsight there are little moves here and there that might be more obvious if you had the two stars leave the team.

    P.S. Though I appreciate the invite I wont be abandoning my Jets. You guys wouldnt want that anyway--- as soon as I would start cheering on the Pats the Pats would go down the tubes. :)
     
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