Injuries - Expect the Unexpected

[mayoclinic]

It's called Depth of Talent, gentlemen, and I've been preaching it forever.

That is why you draft premier talent ~ if you're in a position to do so, as we were ~ for the entire roster.

We were in a position to upgrade 18-20 spots.

We upgraded about 6...as usual.

I'm not saying Mad Bill isn't the best ~ he is.

But even his approach can be improved.

Call me every version of crazy that you like...But try to remember your responses when we're scraping the aisles of WalMart in October, as we end up doing every year.

I agree that you want talent through every spot on the roster. Teams that have that kind of depth will be at an immense advantage. Versatility is also a huge plus, as I've preached before - it's better to be a stud at one position than a journeyman at several, but if you have a potential stud at more than one position it's the best of both worlds. Guys like Dont'a Hightower and Robert Gallery have that kind of ability.

The 53 man roster is the #1 enemy. It forces BB to cut a ton of players who he could use, only to have them scooped up by other teams so that when injuries occur they are not available. That's also the problem with your "draft 18-20 players" approach - to keep those players would take away roster spots from veterans who are much more ready to contribute, and if injuries forced those rookies into action too soon it would be disastrous. But in principle, I agree - you want to upgrade each and every single spot on the roster.

The Pats have incredible depth right now at QB, OL, at WR, at LB and in the secondary. The best depth that I've ever seen. TE has gotten deeper with the addition of Daniel Fells. RB is fairly deep. The DL is probably the weakest link on the team as far as depth is concerned.

I think there's a good chance that we will be scraping the aisles at Wallmart at some point during the season. But hopefully not as much as in the past. And if quality depth lets us rest some people or withstand some injuries and still be competitive, it will be a big advantage.

 

[Deus Irae]

....The Pats have incredible depth right now at QB, OL, at WR, at LB and in the secondary. The best depth that I've ever seen. TE has gotten deeper with the addition of Daniel Fells. RB is fairly deep. The DL is probably the weakest link on the team as far as depth is concerned....

We're way too premature when we talk about depth at positions. I remember last season, and the talk of how good the defensive secondary was going to be with McCourty coming off a great year, Bodden coming back, Sanders, Chung and Meriweather coming back, and Dowling moving in to the rotation as well.

 

[Metaphors]

I actually think Wilfork may be more important than Brady in some ways. I think that there's enough talent on the team that Mallett and Hoyer can win a lot of games, as long as Brady is back for the stretch run. But the defense is really built around Wilfork. Other than that I agree with you - it's much better to lose guys for part of the season and get them back healthy for the stretch run than to lose them at the end.

I'm not sure I would go that far with Wilfork, but it says something about him that the contention (Wilfork >= Brady wrt winning a title) can even be considered reasonable. Wilfork is amazing in the number of plays he can handle and still be functional in the 4th quarter. If the Pats won the SB last year, he would have had a legit claim to MVP.

This would be a side benefit of playing a less vanilla scheme on defense. Wilfork wouldn't be required to play nearly as many snaps. Wilfork was the anchor (literally) of the defense last year in base and sub. With a more DE/LB heavy sub package, Wilfork should be able to stay in the 50%-60% of snaps range...rather than the insane 85%-95% range.

 

[mayoclinic]

Wilfork is amazing in the number of plays he can handle and still be functional in the 4th quarter. If the Pats won the SB last year, he would have had a legit claim to MVP.

Wilfork is in incredible shape for such a big man. He has a rather unique conditioning program ... swimming:

Vince Wilfork statistic’s most effective work comes when no one is watching. When Wilfork takes the pads off, the Patriots team statistics defensive tackle completes a training regimen that leaves him able to wear Vince Wilfork Jersey and play more snaps on Sundays than any interior defensive lineman could imagine. With a smile, Wilfork revealed his magical routine.“That has been my secret — swimming”. Asked how he worked himself into shape and maintained his fitness, Wilfork credits his diligence in the pool, both at home in Florida during the offseason and in Foxboro. Wilfork swims under water. Push aside the comical visual of the 6-foot-2, 325-plus pounder displacing gallons of water. This is not a joke.“What I do is I go over and back underwater,” Wilfork wore Vince Wilfork Jersey and said. “Rest 10 seconds and I am back up under. I do 20 of those. And that completes it. That is your workout for the day.”

Swimming proves beneficial for Vince Wilfork of New England Patriots – Vince Wilfork Jersey | New England Patriots Jerseys

I don't know how big his pool is, but 20 back and forth reps underwater with only 10 seconds in between? That's incredible. VWs lung capacity must be off the charts. No matter he can play so much and still be functional.

 

[Fencer]

Well, whether or not the Patriots have one of the deepest DB corps in the league in August depends upon how you're defining "deep". If you're just doing a body count, they probably go to camp with as many DBs as anyone. If you're talking about talent, though, that's quite a bit different.

I was talking about depth w/ guys who one would think could play.

It's an opinion expressed multiple years in the national football press that I regarded as reasonable.

 

[mrscruff]

Some food for thought.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 Adjusted Games Lost

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Wilfork is in incredible shape for such a big man. He has a rather unique conditioning program ... swimming:

I don't know how big his pool is, but 20 back and forth reps underwater with only 10 seconds in between? That's incredible. VWs lung capacity must be off the charts. No matter he can play so much and still be functional.

Off the charts impressive. I HATE swimming workouts.

Word up is that Bianca is thinking of having him add a workout where he forces his way through a double team of Beluga whales underwater.

 

[mayoclinic]

Off the charts impressive. I HATE swimming workouts.

Word up is that Bianca is thinking of having him add a workout where he forces his way through a double team of Beluga whales underwater.

In that case I suggest we nickname VW "Orca".

 

[Deus Irae]

I was talking about depth w/ guys who one would think could play.

It's an opinion expressed multiple years in the national football press that I regarded as reasonable.

There is no depth to this secondary with "guys who one would think could play". The are plenty of "guys who one hopes can play", but that's not the same thing.

 

[mayoclinic]

Some food for thought.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 Adjusted Games Lost

So according to FO the Pats had the 3rd greatest impact from injuries of any team in the NFL in 2011 but still finished 13-3 and went to the SB. They had the 5th greatest impact in 2010 and still managed to finish 14-2.

Seems like BB must be doing something right about managing all those injuries.

 

[mayoclinic]

We're way too premature when we talk about depth at positions. I remember last season, and the talk of how good the defensive secondary was going to be with McCourty coming off a great year, Bodden coming back, Sanders, Chung and Meriweather coming back, and Dowling moving in to the rotation as well.

I think your point is valid. How things look on paper and how the reality looks come August may be 2 separate things.

 

[Ron Sellers]

It's called Depth of Talent, gentlemen, and I've been preaching it forever.

That is why you draft premier talent ~ if you're in a position to do so, as we were ~ for the entire roster.

We were in a position to upgrade 18-20 spots.

We upgraded about 6...as usual.

I'm not saying Mad Bill isn't the best ~ he is.

But even his approach can be improved.

Call me every version of crazy that you like...But try to remember your responses when we're scraping the aisles of WalMart in October, as we end up doing every year.

I'm assuming you are referring to your mock draft in which you had the Pats trading down and adding 18 rookies to the 2012 roster.

The counterpoint to that strategy is that in reality, no matter how much you fall in love with rookies and undrafted free agents, they are not even close to being sure things; in fact, there is no reason to believe you stand just as good a chance at making the team weaker rather than stronger by adding so many newbies.

What percentage of late round draft picks and UDFAs that looked so good on paper in college turn out to be decent NFL players? Why the presumption that ever single one of them will be better than other options? Perhaps more importantly, how many players that didn't do much of anything in their first year or two turn out to be solid contributors in years three, four and five?

There are only 90 roster spots in training camp, 53 in the regular season, and 46 on game day. While I totally agree that there were certain positions that did not get as much attention as needed (i.e., how about a few less WR and a few more S and DL on the 90-man roster?), the idea of a team that was one play away from a Lombardi making a forklift change and going into September with 18 rookies seems to be an overreaction, and a recipe for a downfall due to an overabundance of brand new players.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think your point is valid. How things look on paper and how the reality looks come August may be 2 separate things.

Yeah, I was one who got burned last year, thinking that the DB corps would be improved.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

SO what are your predictions of the big injuries this year on the pats becasue you know there are going to be some.