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Increased Gubmit Education Spending Helps...Not!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .


    Don't get the ball rolling on this!! The BIGGEST scam of all time is now "public" brainwashing .... er,.... "education".

    "That's right, Johnny, you really ARE descended from a horned toad."

    "God is no longer welcomed in public schools. Thanks to Madeline Murray O'Hare and her fellow travelers."

    "Sex education WILL BE MANDATORY, and parents won't know about it. Condoms dispensed daily. Abortions given after school, unless previous appointments made."

    But "self-esteem" scores are way, WAY up!!!! .... all except in Chicago, apparently. :confused2:


    Bummersville, USA.


    //
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The chart doesn't show to what degree (if at all) local spending has been reduced because of federal spending. Also, it doesn't take into account whether the increased increased spending has been directed to such areas as access and special programs for disabled kids (required as a result of various rulings in the early '90s, I believe), increased security in light of Columbine and other tragedies, infrastructure investments that were too long ignored, after school programs to reduce crime, costs associated with computerization, etc.

    Given that that nationally only about 8% of educational costs are paid for by the feds (Federal Role in Education) and given that this money goes to a great variety of school programs, the chart may merely show that we are not yet spending enough money to make a difference.

    Of course, the chart is from the Cato institute, which basically starts with a right-wing premise and reasons backwards, so I'm no sure why anyone would take it seriously.
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Have you ever seen what we spend per pupil in this country? It's gross. It's a good thing the gubmit has a monopoly on education in this country. It's working out real well.
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There should be an overlay of the federal regulations that have increased the demands on school systems.. see PL 94-142 and the No Child Left Behind Law... these have placed a lot of demands on Local Systems, without the prerequisite funding.. it happens all the time.. the loons in DC think it is a good idea, pass a bill, it becomes law and guess who has to implement it...then they go have drinks, chase women and say "atta boy".

    Worked on the NCLB law in Maine when it first came out, I was responsible for developing an implementation plan.. it is a very long cumbersome regulation.. used to take long rides in the woods to think about it.
     
  6. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Government doesn't have a monopoly on education in the United States.

    As soon as a righty can give me a valid, logical explanation as to why ours is among the worst in the world (beyond just, "kids in this country don't want to learn and have crappy parents") then I'll come on here and ***** and moan about how everything should be privatized. As of yet, I've never seen a right winger ever even attempt to explain why ours is different than the rest of the world and give reasons that don't also apply elsewhere.

    This is yet another of the many logical pitfalls of the right. They are willing to just say something sucks, can't be helped and we should just leave it, all the while being to mentally lazy and entitled to figure out the root of the problem and come up with concrete steps to fixing/improving it without just advocating tearing it all down. Yes, let's privatize education too, that way righties can keep all of their hard earned dollars on some talk radio principle, and the people that don't want to learn or can't afford it can just go eff themselves. Never mind the implications for everyone of having a society that is mostly uneducated, this is about my wallet goddamnit! There's lazy vultures stealing my cash!
     
  7. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The recent influx in charter schools is making a dent in that monopoly...and showing the cracks in the system.

    Don't blame the government entirely, I put the vast majority of the blame on the teachers and administrators. Teachers are in it for the money and the guaranteed jobs, the administrators are playing "cover your azz" so much that they stopped giving a damn about the students and started to give a damn more about avoiding lawsuits and getting more money for the school.
     
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Let's see, Foggy. Do you LIKE America being a free country or don't you? Because if it is to remain free people like Madeline Murray have just as many rights as you or I do. And that's a good thing regardless of what you, personally, may think about her views on anything. You can't stomp on her rights without stomping on your own - and you'd do well to remember that.

    Mandatory sex education is a bad thing, how? As for parents not knowing about it - any parent who is involved in their child's life will know about it, fer cryin' out loud. Get real. Kid comes home from school, parents come home from work, family sits down for dinner, Father says to Mother, "How was your day?" Mother says to Father, "Just fine. Suzy-Q, how was your day? What did you do in school?" Suzy-Q says, "Nothing, ma, we started algebra in math class and Mrs. Smith in PE told us where babies come from. Pass the potatoes, please." Ta Da!! Mom and Dan now know what's being taught in school.

    :confused2:? Why, did you go to school in Chicago or do you have no self-esteem? I really don't understand your preoccupation about Chicago, Fog. I am a product of the Chicago school system and I'm neither confused nor lacking in self-esteem. Nor do I plan on bashing someone's head in with a railroad tie, joining a street gang or applying for welfare. Nor do the majority of the people I know in Chicago plan on doing any of those things. Could it be that it's a small minority of people there who do such things? Just as there are a small minority of people world-wide who do such things?

    But that would ruin your rant, wouldn't it? Just like anything truthful ruins your rant.

    What a bummer.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Increased Government Regulations play no part in this???

    Have you ever read the regs of no child left behind or 94-142... they are absurd, page after page of nothing but more red tape and more things they have to do, and for the most part no additional funding..

    The whole focus of education is preparation for testing, as if they fail and are consdired to "need improvement" technically their school can be taken over.. it is all BS.

    One of the stupidest things ever seen are school bus monitors, about 10 years ago a young child got run over by a bus... so they passed legislation that on every school bus in RI they have to have a school bus monitor, that responsibility entails every time the bus loads or off loads the monitor has to check under the bus... it is the most idiotic thing ever seen.. half the time they can't even bend over to see if any kids are under the bus... the easy answer is to empower parents to meet the bus...
     
  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    America USED to be a free country, UNTIL people like Madelyn Murray O'Hare combined with the anti-American pony-tail ACLU and fellow travelers to systematically destroy America's Christian heritage. Madelyn Murray O'Hare attempted to become a Soviet Union citizen; she got rejected so she brought her atheistic communistic diatribe INTO America. Madalyn Murray O'Hair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You still don't get it, nor do you seem to want to.

    It was Christian America -- along with Christian Great Britain -- who gave Jews their own country again, when all the rest of the world was against it. Who else did more?? Russia?? China?? Cuba?? Venezuela?? Bolivia?? Vietnam?? Cambodia?? Sheeit.

    And the thanks we get are secular, anti-American, anti-Judaic, communistic Jews, like Ayers, Dorhn and the majority of the Weather Underground, as well as the core of most of the communist groups in America, who have targeted the Christian faith and its principles for TOTAL REMOVAL from all public venues in America. :mad:

    You want less crime?? You want better economics?? You want less racial tensions?? You want harmony and peace for ALL people in America and the world???? Then bring God back. It's the ONLY way it will ever happen.

    Get real??? How 'bout YOU getting real and allowing kids to be born in stable two-parent families, where the PARENTS can give the kind of "sex education" they want for their children!! Today's secularized strange teachers talking sex with other peoples' kids is a prescription for sexual abuse holocaust. As we see every single day in the news.

    You "don't understand" about Chicago???? :wha: Never heard of Tony Rezko?? never heard of Bill Ayers?? never heard of Bernadine Dorhn?? never heard of Saul Alinsky?? never heard of Jesse Jackson?? never heard of the Daley family?? never heard of Blogdonavich?? never heard of Barack Hussein Obama and his lovely-armed wife with her $600 sneakers and $6000 hand bags???

    You don't get out much, do you.


    Don't be bummed!!! Just study my "rants" ten times each and you'll be cured of all that ails you. For real.


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  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now that the thread has been hijacked.. try to bring it back into focus.

    The increase in Government Spending on Schools directly reflects the increased regulation by the federal government...

    In 1975, they passed PL 94-142... education for the handicapped children, the consequence was a big spike in expenditures and increased regulations.. everytime the Feds pass a bill like this there is a subsequent increase in oversight by the state, LEA's and in the individual schools...

    If you look at the CATO chart, that was the first big spike in expenditures..

    In early 2000, they passed "No Child Left Behind", which was a bi partisan effort... the regulations for the law were very "heavy", required a lot of discussion, conferences etc. and very difficult to operationalize also required much followup..

    Once again if you look at the CATO chart, that was the second big spike..

    If you talk with educators much of their time is taken up by preparing for standardized tests so they schools do not fall into the dreaded category of "needs improvement".

    Neither one of these bills followed with adequate funding, and the burden was shifted to the states and LEA's...

    If there was a serious attempt to ever want to save educational bucks, get rid of the Dept. of Education on the fed level... it came into existence in 1980, and has proven to be a nasty, expensive beast... Allow the states to determine their own standards, and develop their own rules.. let the feds be involved purely on an advisory level...

    Teachers are not solely to blame, there are a few idiots as there are in any profession, but for the most part they are very dedicated men and women who have a difficult job, which is made more difficult by the federal intervention. Blaming teachers is the easy, lazy answer.. looking at what is going on systemically is a lot more difficult.

    The devil is in the details...
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Where the hell did you get the idea that America was founded as a "christian" nation? America was founded in order to escape forced religion - not to propagate it.

    Again - are you unaware that there are many millions of Americans who are NOT Christians and who do NOT appreciate Christ and Christianity being forced down their throats or their children's throats every time they enter a public venue? The word "public" means "for everyone," Foggy, not just Christians but Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and athiests and agnostics - none of whom need or want Christ in their grocery store or the schools their taxes help support.

    I thought we'd automatically get that when enough races intermingled and quit raising pure-bred children like so many puppies.

    How bout that's the kind of families we had back in the 40s and 50s and look what happened to THOSE kids!!! How much sex education did kids get back in the 50s and 60s? How many teenaged pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases did Ward and June Cleaver prevent?

    How bout a stable 1 parent family is a ton better than an unstable 2 parent one? Or should spouses follow the "old rules" and stick with abusive and dangerous spouses for the "sake of the children?"


    You don't understand about "ratio?" You don't understand about "total population?" What part of the foolishness of you naming 7 families out of a total population of 2,836,658 and trying to claim it as representative don't you understand?

    What about Abraham Lincoln, John Ashcroft, Wesley Clark, Paul Douglas, Steven Douglas, John Harlan, Donald Rumsfeld, Walter Payton, Ernie Banks, Bart Conner, Dorothy Hamill, Knute Rockne, Walt Disney, Jack Benny, James Young, Charlton Heston, Jane Addams, Ray Bradbury, Gwendolyn Brooks, Mother Cabrini, Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, James Watson Cronin, Clarence Darrow, James Farrell, Enrico Fermi, Milton Friedman, Ernest Hemingway, Carl Sandburg, Sidney Sheldon, Irving Wallace, Frank Lloyd Wright....the list goes on and on, but you get the picture.

    9 people, you gave me nine people you, personally, can find fault with - I just gave you 31 I doubt anyone can fault.



    Pretty funny, Foggy, coming from a member of a cult-like church which demands absolute obedience and tells you who and when you can marry and where to live and what to do.

    More than "pretty funny," in fact.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Speaking for myself, of the 7 hours my 11 year old spends in middle school, I can say that a little under 3 hours are what I consider to be quality education (and even then I don't like the way they teach some of the math but I'll count that as a "good" hour). And this is at a "good" school. There's just not a lot of time spent on the important stuff. Other than the social interaction, I think I could do better home schooling for 3 hours a day than what he spends 7 hours at currently.
     
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, "more than pretty funny" .... like: pretty silly (willfully ignorant??) on your part.

    Anyway, I don't have time to give you a history lesson on the ACTUAL and REAL foundation of America, I'll let the names of the cities and towns of America tell you themselves:

    Providence
    Hebron
    Shiloh
    Nazareth
    Bethlehem
    Canaan
    New Canaan
    Antioch
    Sinai/Mt. Sinai
    Solomon
    David
    Saul
    Jesus Maria
    Jericho
    Obadiah
    Daniel
    Moses
    Job
    Lot
    Jacob
    Isaac
    Sarah
    Abraham
    Ham Lake
    Shem
    Ark
    Noah
    Abel
    Cain
    Eve
    Adam
    Mt. Zion
    St. Mary
    St. Joseph
    St. Peter
    St. Paul
    St. James
    St. John
    St. Matthew
    St. Mark
    St. Luke
    Titus
    Timothy
    Trinity
    Calvary
    etc., etc., etc.

    Biblical Names Project


    And some self-styled spiritual anarchist destroyers want to remove God from America!!! :steamed:

    EXPECT to be nuked, literally, if that ever happens. It's guaranteed. Islam is preparing for it, and neither China or Russia will stop them.


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  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    UNF..ing believable how this thread got hijacked...
     
  16. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    ... and millions -- literally -- of other families in America agree with you. Home-schooling has the fastest growth rate of any "school" system in America right now. The growth of home-schooling: Kitchen-classroom conservatives | The Economist



    //
     
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OTOH school can provide a welcome break for parents, although homeschooling is a good option, but have to have a special make up for that as do the kids..

    Have to disagree with the quality of stuff, not sure of the state of education in California.. but as someone involved with a high school student, it can get pretty intense.. what concerns me is the continual focus on standardized testing to meet the NCLB requirements.. I know it concerns some very good educators I know as well.

    Do not know how any parent, can shy away from their educational responsibility either by ignoring their educational needs, or spending so much time watching TV or on the computer that the kids and family become second.
     
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm sure there will be lots of good options in high school but this is why I'm against all the crap, sex ed, etc, the kids need as many hours as possible of stuff they'll need not of slop. It's kind of sad that, even taking the lunch period out, half the school day is what I consider to be slop.

    FYI, the slop in 6th grade is Gym, History and "Teen Living". Before anyone freaks out, I'm fine with History but I don't consider Ancient History back to Neanderthals to be useful. Once they get to Modern History I will feel differently. Teen Living is a combination of Sewing and Cooking, worthwhile skills but not ones that should take up 17% of the non lunch school day.
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Comparatively speaking my grandson takes all the regular stuff, along with two electives welding and introduction to technology... he really enjoys the latter as he plans on becoming a mechanic.. overall it is quite intense.

    The history is now the 19th century, so it is not too bad.. english is the same old, same old, of course algebra and foreign language.
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not to get into the weeds but I also hate some of the way they teach stuff.

    Example :

    3 - (-2)

    Most of us would look at it as a double negative which is the correct way to see it mathematically and also for life because we have to deal with double negatives all our lives outside of math.

    How do they teach it here ?

    Keep, Change, Change.

    That is how he learns to do a double negative.

    Split the Operands and Operators into ordered pieces :

    "3" then "-" then "-2"

    Keep 3 results in 3.
    Change - results in +
    Change -2 results in 2

    so 3 - (-2) becomes 3 + 2.

    Which gets the right answer but IMO doesn't get them thinking in a logical, mathematical way and instead is a trick for ease of teaching.
     

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