Inadequate suspension = no deterrent

[ironwasp]

I know HGH is not in the same class as anabolic steroids, but substance abuse is substance and, I'm sorry, but a four game suspension is an entirely inadequate punishment from the NFL. Rodney should be banned for 12 months minimum, justy as Merriman should have been.

Goodell's worked really hard this off season to clean the NFL's act up with regards behaviour off the field, but this is as serious as the gun-toting, the DUIs and all the rest of it and should be treated as such.

The vast majority of professional sports from track and field through cycling to rugby and soccer have a minimum 12-month suspension for substance abuse, and until the NFL treats this issue with the seriousness it deserves it will continue to have a problem.

The message this sends to other players is: go ahead, take the risk, because even in the worst case scenario you're only going to miss four games.

I've loved Rodney as a Patriot, but he realy shouldn't be in our uniform this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

The penalties are laid out in the CBA. What was given is appropriate for the conduct according to that agreement.

 

[DarrylS]

Admittedly I have not read everything on this yet, but my initial reaction is one of shock.. with that being said, as far as the penalty goes it appears that this is comparable to some type of plea bargain. The NFL does not test for HGH, so Rodney could have said it was for a cousin or something like that. Just because he bought it, does not necessarily mean he used it.. his admission of responsibility if refreshing and not unexpected from this man.

 

[PATRIOT64]

I know HGH is not in the same class as anabolic steroids, but substance abuse is substance and, I'm sorry, but a four game suspension is an entirely inadequate punishment from the NFL. Rodney should be banned for 12 months minimum, justy as Merriman should have been.

Goodell's worked really hard this off season to clean the NFL's act up with regards behaviour off the field, but this is as serious as the gun-toting, the DUIs and all the rest of it and should be treated as such.

The vast majority of professional sports from track and field through cycling to rugby and soccer have a minimum 12-month suspension for substance abuse, and until the NFL treats this issue with the seriousness it deserves it will continue to have a problem.

The message this sends to other players is: go ahead, take the risk, because even in the worst case scenario you're only going to miss four games.

I've loved Rodney as a Patriot, but he realy shouldn't be in our uniform this season.

I think any violation of any NFL policy that of course any player has had to go through in a very knowlegable way and knows every violation should be for a 1 year minimum if not more depending on previous records of these incidents.

I think Rodney may decide to retire with a sudden decision upcoming..I really do and would not be surprised if indeed this happened before the end of September.

I just think he has too much pride and has worked too hard in this business to just go back to the locker room to face the guys and face the fans like it never happened,Rodney is a unique character unlike many others before him who have screwed up and came back,He may not..we will see

 

[ironwasp]

The penalties are laid out in the CBA. What was given is appropriate for the conduct according to that agreement.

I understand that, and my point is not really about Rodney per se. THis is the same argument I put forward here last year after Merriman. The CBA needs changing. If you want an example of what happens to a sport that either turns a blind eye or treats substance abusers leniently look at the Tour De France, which is now in tatters because the doping is utterly out of control and the sport has lost the confidence of its supporters.

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand that, and my point is not really about Rodney per se. THis is the same argument I put forward here last year after Merriman. The CBA needs changing. If you want an example of what happens to a sport that either turns a blind eye or treats substance abusers leniently look at the Tour De France, which is now in tatters because the doping is utterly out of control and the sport has lost the confidence of its supporters.

Yes, the CBA does need changing. The power of the Commissioner to pull this nonsense regarding suspensions needs to be stripped completely away, and drug testing should not be permitted unless some heightened status (reasonable suspicion/probable cause) can be proven. This needs to be done by an independent 3rd party.

As for the Tour, the reason it's in tatters is not because it's turning a blind eye, but because there are so many getting caught because the sport is NOT turning a blind eye. Baseball certainly wasn't in tatters when the Commissioner was turning a blind eye to Bonds and company: quite the opposite in fact, it probably saved the sport. The 'problems' in baseball didn't begin until the congressional hearings.

Look, I'm opposed to the use of illegal drugs by players of any sport, and I'm also opposed to the use of any drugs agreed upon by the players in conjunction with the league. But, I'm also tired of seeing people surrender their rights.

 

[zippo59]

Didn't the league want to make the suspension longer but the union wouldn't let them?

 

[BadMoFo]

Yes, the CBA does need changing. The power of the Commissioner to pull this nonsense regarding suspensions needs to be stripped completely away, and drug testing should not be permitted unless some heightened status (reasonable suspicion/probable cause) can be proven. This needs to be done by an independent 3rd party.

As for the Tour, the reason it's in tatters is not because it's turning a blind eye, but because there are so many getting caught because the sport is NOT turning a blind eye. Baseball certainly wasn't in tatters when the Commissioner was turning a blind eye to Bonds and company: quite the opposite in fact, it probably saved the sport. The 'problems' in baseball didn't begin until the congressional hearings.

Look, I'm opposed to the use of illegal drugs by players of any sport, and I'm also opposed to the use of any drugs agreed upon by the players in conjunction with the league. But, I'm also tired of seeing people surrender their rights.

The NFL and Commissioner Goodell are cleaning up the sport and all the people who have given it a bad name. I don't think we should start criticizing him now because it's one of our guys who is in trouble. Rodney admitted that he has used HGH for two years to recover from his injuries. It's not like he just got caught this week buying the stuff.

 

[Deus Irae]

The NFL and Commissioner Goodell are cleaning up the sport and all the people who have given it a bad name. I don't think we should start criticizing him now because it's one of our guys who is in trouble. Rodney admitted that he has used HGH for two years to recover from his injuries. It's not like he just got caught this week buying the stuff.

I've criticized Goodell over more than just Patriot issues, although I'm not sure if I've done any of that on posts here. He's been terrible, in my opinion. I never thought I'd be longing for Tagliabue so soon after his departure.

 

[BadMoFo]

I've criticized Goodell over more than just Patriot issues, although I'm not sure if I've done any of that on posts here. He's been terrible, in my opinion. I never thought I'd be longing for Tagliabue so soon after his departure.

And what exactly is wrong with Goodell in his brief time as Commish? He is ridding the league of troublemakers and cheaters. How is that a bad thing?

 

[zippo59]

Yes, the CBA does need changing. The power of the Commissioner to pull this nonsense regarding suspensions needs to be stripped completely away, and drug testing should not be permitted unless some heightened status (reasonable suspicion/probable cause) can be proven. This needs to be done by an independent 3rd party.

As for the Tour, the reason it's in tatters is not because it's turning a blind eye, but because there are so many getting caught because the sport is NOT turning a blind eye. Baseball certainly wasn't in tatters when the Commissioner was turning a blind eye to Bonds and company: quite the opposite in fact, it probably saved the sport. The 'problems' in baseball didn't begin until the congressional hearings.

Look, I'm opposed to the use of illegal drugs by players of any sport, and I'm also opposed to the use of any drugs agreed upon by the players in conjunction with the league. But, I'm also tired of seeing people surrender their rights.

So you believe that if you ignore the problem it will go away?

Yikes.

 

[Deus Irae]

So you believe that if you ignore the problem it will go away?

Yikes.

Thats not what I said, and you know it.

Look, I'm opposed to the use of illegal drugs by players of any sport, and I'm also opposed to the use of any drugs agreed upon by the players in conjunction with the league. But, I'm also tired of seeing people surrender their rights.

I'm pretty sure you saw that part of the quote.

 

[ironwasp]

Yes, the CBA does need changing. The power of the Commissioner to pull this nonsense regarding suspensions needs to be stripped completely away, and drug testing should not be permitted unless some heightened status (reasonable suspicion/probable cause) can be proven. This needs to be done by an independent 3rd party.

As for the Tour, the reason it's in tatters is not because it's turning a blind eye, but because there are so many getting caught because the sport is NOT turning a blind eye. Baseball certainly wasn't in tatters when the Commissioner was turning a blind eye to Bonds and company: quite the opposite in fact, it probably saved the sport. The 'problems' in baseball didn't begin until the congressional hearings.

Look, I'm opposed to the use of illegal drugs by players of any sport, and I'm also opposed to the use of any drugs agreed upon by the players in conjunction with the league. But, I'm also tired of seeing people surrender their rights.

I don't think our positions are too far apart here and there will probably need to be elements of it we agree to disagree on.

The Tour de France is in the position it is in because for years and years the organisers and authorities chose to ignore the insitutionalised culture of drug taking in cycling. Everyone knew about it and gradually the stink hanging over the tour got worse and worse bringing into disrepute the great achievements even of clean athletes and tainting everything and everyone. At the same time pressure has been brought to bear by WADA and the IOC for cycling to clean up its act, and eventually the Tour and the sport was forced into line.

But it takes time to change and entire culture and there are still a lot of the older guys on the tour who are reliant on illegal substances and reluctant to change. I suspect this year was the nadir, and that the sport will start its long climb back.

The NFL has been extraordinarily untouched - in relative terms to baseball etc - by allegations of doping, but there is always a degree of suspicion around and every so often someone gets caught like Merriman, and now Rodney, and because of the CBA the response looks weak and tolerant of doping, and that's the message sent to playes in High School, college and in the pros. And that's not good enough.

So when Rodney comes back in week 5 if that's what happens, I will still believe he should not be there, but the rules will have been adhered to and his right is to play, and the team's right is to play him. And when I come to Foxborough in November I will cheer him.

But that won't shake my conviction that the rules need changing.

 

[DaBruinz]

I know HGH is not in the same class as anabolic steroids, but substance abuse is substance and, I'm sorry, but a four game suspension is an entirely inadequate punishment from the NFL. Rodney should be banned for 12 months minimum, justy as Merriman should have been.

Goodell's worked really hard this off season to clean the NFL's act up with regards behaviour off the field, but this is as serious as the gun-toting, the DUIs and all the rest of it and should be treated as such.

The vast majority of professional sports from track and field through cycling to rugby and soccer have a minimum 12-month suspension for substance abuse, and until the NFL treats this issue with the seriousness it deserves it will continue to have a problem.

The message this sends to other players is: go ahead, take the risk, because even in the worst case scenario you're only going to miss four games.

I've loved Rodney as a Patriot, but he realy shouldn't be in our uniform this season.

1st of all, Substance abuse is typically the LONG TERM TAKING of a drug, not because it has any beneficial properties, but because it doesn't. What Rodney did is NOT substance abuse.

BTW, I think is laughable you mention cycling because its pretty much been proven that the French doctor the testing with how they handled Armstrong's testing and others..

As for your comments about whether a 4 game suspension is adequate, its not for you to decide. Its what was negotiated in the CBA. Personally, I think too many people don't have a clue as to what substance abuse is and what it means to take a drug like HGH for a short period of time.

 

[DaBruinz]

The NFL and Commissioner Goodell are cleaning up the sport and all the people who have given it a bad name. I don't think we should start criticizing him now because it's one of our guys who is in trouble. Rodney admitted that he has used HGH for two years to recover from his injuries. It's not like he just got caught this week buying the stuff.

You must have read something different than everyone else because that is NOT what his apology said. Rodney did NOT say that he has used it for the last two years. He said he used it to recover from his injuries. Would could have been just in the last 6 months.

I really wish people would stop putting their own words into what was really said.

 

[ironwasp]

1st of all, Substance abuse is typically the LONG TERM TAKING of a drug, not because it has any beneficial properties, but because it doesn't. What Rodney did is NOT substance abuse.

BTW, I think is laughable you mention cycling because its pretty much been proven that the French doctor the testing with how they handled Armstrong's testing and others..

As for your comments about whether a 4 game suspension is adequate, its not for you to decide. Its what was negotiated in the CBA. Personally, I think too many people don't have a clue as to what substance abuse is and what it means to take a drug like HGH for a short period of time.

It might not be for me to decide whether a suspension is adequate, but surely I'm entitled to an opinion? Isn't that why we come on here?

I don't understand your middle paragraph. It makes no sense whatsoever, and to the best of my knowledge Lance Armstrong has never failed a doping test. Sadly, however, the extraordinary acheivements of his career have always been overshadowed by the cloud of doping, because that sport got itself into such a mess it became difficult for many to believe in any rider.

We can argue the semantics of substance abuse all you want. But I think in relation to the doping policy of major sports, the taking of illegal substance is included.

 

[marty]

Rodney admitted that he has used HGH for two years to recover from his injuries. It's not like he just got caught this week buying the stuff.

This is how misinformation gets started! Rodney never said that he used HGH for two years. He used it to recover from injuries, period. No time frame was given. Please take care how you pass along interpretive info.

 

[DaBruinz]

It might not be for me to decide whether a suspension is adequate, but surely I'm entitled to an opinion? Isn't that why we come on here?

Would you stop making things up? No one said you weren't entitled to your opinion. You are. But you are also entitled to any response you get from voicing that opinion. That's the part of Freedom of Speech that people like you always seem to overlook.

I don't understand your middle paragraph. It makes no sense whatsoever, and to the best of my knowledge Lance Armstrong has never failed a doping test. Sadly, however, the extraordinary acheivements of his career have always been overshadowed by the cloud of doping, because that sport got itself into such a mess it became difficult for many to believe in any rider.

Umm.. WOW. You clearly haven't followed cycling. After Armstrong won his last title, the French lab that does the doping testing supposedly tested "B" samples of Armstrong's from other years and MIRACULOUSLY found them to be tainted and they accused Armstrong of doping. However, Armstrong and his lawyers went after them and found that the testing had been doctored.

You may want to do some more research because there are all sorts of articles out there now about how Armstrong was supposedly doping and never got caught. And supposedly it was some of his teammates that ratted on him.

We can argue the semantics of substance abuse all you want. But I think in relation to the doping policy of major sports, the taking of illegal substance is included.

There are NO semantics about substance abuse. It is what it is. Substance abuse is the long term repeat usage of a substance for other than medicinal purposes.

What Rodney did was take a banned substance. That is NOT substance abuse.

 

[ironwasp]

Would you stop making things up? No one said you weren't entitled to your opinion. You are. But you are also entitled to any response you get from voicing that opinion. That's the part of Freedom of Speech that people like you always seem to overlook.

You're right. I shouldn't have jumped in there. I

Umm.. WOW. You clearly haven't followed cycling. After Armstrong won his last title, the French lab that does the doping testing supposedly tested "B" samples of Armstrong's from other years and MIRACULOUSLY found them to be tainted and they accused Armstrong of doping. However, Armstrong and his lawyers went after them and found that the testing had been doctored.

I wrote: "to the best of my knowledge Lance Armstrong never failed a doping test". The results of the French test you write about were overturned and found to be unsafe. So he didn't fail a test that means anything. No allegation of doping against Armstrong has ever stuck.






There are NO semantics about substance abuse. It is what it is. Substance abuse is the long term repeat usage of a substance for other than medicinal purposes.

What Rodney did was take a banned substance. That is NOT substance abuse.

Here's how the NFLPA describes the policy that Rodney Harrison has violated: "Substance Abuse & Steroid Policy"

That is the context I have used these words in. I am neither inferring nor implying anything different, and am simply using a phrase in a context where it is quite common to use it. If you read my posts on this subject they are entirely consistent in that I have not judged Rodney Harrison, criticised him, expressed my disappointment or anything else. Nor shall I. My beef is with the rules.

10 charactrers

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I've criticized Goodell over more than just Patriot issues, although I'm not sure if I've done any of that on posts here. He's been terrible, in my opinion. I never thought I'd be longing for Tagliabue so soon after his departure.

So you want the cheating and law breaking to continue?