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In the end, it should be about improving, not plugging holes

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Crazy Patriot Guy, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    I'm like most people. With the cap space and draft picks we have this offseason, the perfect scenario I hope for is that we go into the season without a glaring issue that has fans concerned. That's a lot easier said than done, and in the end, the focus should be on simply improving the team.

    I'm not saying the team NEEDS TO go after a player like Colston, Vincent Jackson or Mike Wallace, instead of focusing on defense. I'm simply saying I hope the Pats don't DISMISS going after a player like Colston, Jackson or Wallace, to focus on the defense. The same goes for the draft, and I've talked about it before. I don't want to see us pass up a potentially great player just because he plays a position we aren't weak at. (while it wasn't exactly a strength at the time, some questioned if the Lions should draft Calvin Johnson, because of all the high draft picks used at the WR position in previous years)

    We obviously need to improve the defense. However, just because we have the money, it doesn't guarantee a top safety or cornerback or OLB signs with us. That's the reality. Someone can offer more or the player may see a better fit elsewhere. I'd hate to ignore some great players on the offensive side of the ball just for the chance of signing players on defense. If we have a chance to sign Jackson or Colston, get them. It's not easy to add great players.

    Again, I'm not against adding 5-6 quality players at reasonable contracts at various positions, adding talent and depth to the team. I'm against a refusal to add a top WR or a guy like Mario Williams, simply because they don't play a position we are weakest at. Either way works for me, as long as all options are considered.
  2. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    My hope is that the Patriots plug holes and get better. ;)
  3. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I understand what you're saying, but the pattern of obvious success should not be overlooked.

    We know this team, at least to some degree. They may be unpredictable in some areas, but their predictibility in others more than makes up for that.

    We can rightfully assume that they will explore all options, go over various scenarios and come to some type of agreement that continues to place us in the upper-echelon of competition.

    Personally, I don't feel that they are far away at all, and the improvement of a few positions will lead to another championship. However that's done is more than fine with me.

    While we would all be happy with that big-name top tiered WR, the team may be more than happy with a mid level acquisition who may have shown tendency to be able to produce outside the numbers more.

    In a year when we went to the SB, outscored the opponent 17-0 at one time during it, and gave up 2 total TD's in the game, we certainly had more than a chance to win the Lombardi trophy. Sometimes, it's all about a bounce or a cruical play, and unfortunately it wasn't meant to be. However, the total measure of success in what got us there should not be understated. I believe that we win the majority of the time that game is replayed, much like SB42.

    Odds are that there will be an improvement at WR come September, though there's a good chance that it won't be the kind of thing that we all had in mind.

    Both sides of the ball are pretty well set, and the addition of another few key players through the draft/FA or both, has me salivating for the opening kickoff.

    In a year like this (plethora of high picks, 600+ FA's, and a good amount of cap room), I think the obvious weaknesses will certainly be addressed; and shouldn't be that hard for Belichick to figure out.
  4. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

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    I think you're right, but generally speaking plugging holes is the easiest way TO improve a team.

    If you've got a solid player in position A and a poor player in position B, you only need a solid player to improve B, but need a GREAT player to improve A.

    That said, I think the Pats always look at every position and improve it if the opportunity arises (with the exception of starting QB).
  5. Bertil

    Bertil Rookie

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    I hate that phrase "It wasn't meant to be". It implies a Divine intent for a certain outcome. The Patriots lost for key reasons that were obvious throughout the season. They couldn't reliably pass outside the numbers and downfield and they couldn't stop other teams from passing in that same area of the field. That they were in position to win a SB is nothing short of a miracle. The luck of how the end of the regular season played out was key in helping them get there. This cannot be counted on every year.
  6. Rob0729

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    The Pats have always been about both plugging holes and improving.

    In today's NFL, plugging holes is necessary to built winning teams. You just don't have the cap room to grow and keep a dominant team like say the 70s Steelers. A team like that would have been picked apart in free agency. Even in Super Bowl years, the Pats have thrived on getting 1-2 year stop gap players who play big roles in the season Players like Anthony Pleasant, Ted Washington, Otis Smith, Corey Dillon (even though they resigned him), Keith Traylor, Bryan Cox, etc. all played key rolls as short term fixes to plug holes. In 2007, the Pats had a lot of stop gap players like Stallworth, Seau, Sammy Morris (who ended up exceeding expectations and stuck around longer than anyone ever expected), Chad Brown, and even Randy Moss (he was on an one year probational run that year like Dillon was in 2004).
  7. Gronkandez

    Gronkandez Rookie

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    I agree though I wouldn't go so far to say it was nothing short of a miracle. IMO if they didn't play Denver, Baltimore and NYG people would be more up in arms about the defense right now.

    They also seem to frequently play teams w/o their starting QB's. Philly/KC/Indy, GB two years ago.
  8. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    obvioulsy it is not about plugging holes.....if it was, connor barwin and brooks reed would be on this team.

    and then in some cases, its not about either, as in the case of ron brace, a wasted 2nd round pick as in insurance policy in the event wilfork could not be signed.
  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    what is funny is YOU, once again , making these sweeping denigrations in your trademark condescending tone...of course, you easliy forget your mocking meltdowns just this last season when YOU stated TBC would give this team much more than a "waste" like Carter, and how Carter was nothing more than a JAG who didn't fit the scheme. You DO remember ,right?
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :blahblah: stupid :blahblah: idiots :blahblah: losers

    It's a wonder some of you geniuses waste your time here pretending to be fans.
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. And you could even go that one better and state that improving player B helps make player A a better player. That's what makes football the ultimate team sport. It's about 11 guys executing in unison, and the ability to field roughly 35+ guys who consistently do plus, given the physically demanding and violent nature of the game, having the quality depth to plug in 10 or more guys who won't seriously impact that capacity adversely. Building the best roster you can 1-53 rather than focusing on a handful of superstars who will end up for the most part playing like crap if the guy on either side of them can't do his job to a reasonable degree.

    I think fans, particularly in this fantasy age, tend to lose sight of that. They want to accumulate superior talent, particularly at the skill positions, because in fantasy football that's how you win... While in NFL football, coaching and scheme play so much more of a role than in other sports where an individual talent or two or three can seemingly dominate the game and the coach is often just along for the ride. Fans would like to imagine this team with say Calvin Johnson on the roster - and project that as unbeatable. But Calvin's $21M cap hit in 2012 may well be the reason that doesn't tend to happen for the team that actually does have that player, and perhaps even his equivalent on defense.

    There is a little tug of war afoot down in NO this month between a GM who says their QB is a very good player worthy of an $18M per contract and a player who reportedly believes he is worth $23M per. That of course being the first 3 year average of the deal Peyton Manning was signed to last fall to front a team that barely won 2 games without him. The GM is taking some hits for his stand. But ask yourself, how great a player was Drew Brees before he was nestled in a dome and surrounded with a collection of offensive weapons several of whom most other teams would individually covet?

    Brady has won with less, and won consistently for a decade. That is what seperates very good from great. Brady took a team with no stud RB or high octane returner or viable outside WR or secondary that could stop a sneeze on a defense that scared no one to another superbowl last season - his 5th trip in 10 seasons as a starter. What he was always surrounded with was good coachable football players and a smattering of borderline or debatable or aging or emerging great ones on either side of the roster. Which is why his bust will probably be pretty lonely (unless it's placed next to Bill's) in Canton. But that's also why he's worth the cost of retaining/acquiring when many skill players and even most LOS studs aren't.
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And how many teams' fans are posting on message boards, "We could have had Rob Gronkowski instead of player X" or "We could have had Aaron Hernandez instead of player x"? Everyone wants to play armchair GM. Fact of the matter if Barwin or Reed were as sure fire hits as you make them out to be, they would have been high first round draft picks instead of second round picks.

    Also, Belichick does come from the school that you build within the trenches (at one point in time a few years back all of the d-line were first round picks). He just values d-linemen in the draft more than LBs. Maybe Brace was the wrong pick, but drafting for that position was not. Don't be surprised if he drafts another d-lineman over any LBs. Belichick prefers to get LBs in free agency over the draft in most cases.
  13. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Our safety play wasn't NFL caliber last year. That's the best way to improve. We don't have a FS on the roster. P. Chung missed 1/2 the season. We need depth too. Acquire one in free agency and one in the draft and I feel you will see dramatic improvement.
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a deep pool of talent available in either venue. They had Dashon Goldson in for a visit last fall and offered him a one year deal. He went and took one with SF instead. Now they are tagging him. Maybe we should have offered him Ocho's deal...
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, Goldson got a multiyear deal offer from the Pats which he turned down. He also turned down a 3 or 5 year deal from the 49ers for $5 million a year because Rosenhaus said he would make more this offseason. I doubt he would have signed unless the Pats overpaid for him and based on his 201 performance, that was a huge risk.

    My guess is that the Pats will be actively pursue Michael Griffin. The Titans just franchised Courtland Finnegan. So Griffin will be available.

    Another guy who is flying under the radar is Dwight Lowery. He sucked as a CB for the Jets, but was pretty good as a saftey this past year for the Jags. He is definitely a guy who benefitted from a position change.

    Another guy who is a CB who might make a great transistion to safety is Richard Marshall. He played safety in subpackages this season while Kerry Rhodes was injured and excelled.

    And there is always taking a gamble on LaRon Landry being healthy for an entire season.

    Yes, the pickins are slim, but that is in part that the safety position around the league has been peiss poor the last few years. Even elite guys aren't so elite in the new pass happy NFL.
  16. Deus Irae

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    Disable Jersey

    plugging holes = improvement
  17. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    All that matter is how a team does relative to their competition, so if team A simply plugs holes and team B does not, team A has improved relative to the other team.

    Sometimes improving, in absolute terms, might not be possible or feasable given one's cap situation.
  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    both were widely popular both here and in published mock drafts. nobody had brace going to the pats. the need was obvious, as were the players.

    as for LB's, they 2 leading contributors are LB's (spikes and mayo) there's a bunch of UDFA's at the bottom of the roster.

    in 2008, the pats took an LB first. in 2009, they took brace, in 2010, they took 2 LB's, and in 2011 they took neither.......not exactly the endorsement you make it out to be. in 2011, love, warren, carter, anderson, haynesworth, ellis were DL's that were not pats draft picks on the roster.
  19. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    First you say you dont like divine intent but then you cite LUCK as the determining factor for the Pats getting to the Superbowl?

    You make your own luck. The Pats didn't 'luck' into the playoffs, they won out their remaining games and were ahead of the race for the division title and conference title from the get go.

    The Patriots would have been in a much better position to win the Superbowl if they hadn't had the safety to start off the game. The impact of the safety can't be underestimated. First it essentially gives the Giants a free 'score' in a tight contest. and secondly it takes AWAY one possession from the Pats offense. If that one possession had resulted in at least a FG, which is not difficult to imagine that means the Pats lost a combined 5 points (safety+FG) in the game. And the Giants victory margin, only 4 points.

    The Patriots were not 'flukey' or 'lucky' to get into the superbowl. If anything that fluke safety upset the balance of what could have been the Patriots 4th title.

    The Patriots have a solid core on offense. Their main flaw there is still the inability to go over the top and stretch the D. The receiving corps might be revamped. Will Welker return? On the ground, will BJGE return. Or will Ridley and Vereen be given the keys? We know Ridley is the more explosive player.

    On defense how do we shore up that swiss cheese secondary that gives up big plays when it matters most? Do we draft a free safety or do we try to convert one of McCourty or Dowling to that role? Do we have any cornerbacks that can stay healthy a whole season??

    Lots of room for improvement even on the roster of the Superbowl runner up team. In the end people remember the team that got 1st place, not 2nd but make no mistake, this was a VERY GOOD Patriots team.

  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I always heard that was a one year offer. And his deal with SF was for 1 year $2M. Bedard just tweeted again this AM that the Pats offered him a one year deal. Of course he could be wrong since he just challenged one of our posters here by claiming the tag doesn't count against the cap until they sign it, and he's dead wrong on that...

    And Finnegan hasn't been tagged. It's now a war between LaCanfora who said he would be and Schefter who says he won't be. Jason has backed down to he might be... Reportedly the Titans are still in negotiation with both Griffin and Finnegan hoping to avoid tagging anyone.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
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