In BB We Trust

[Oswlek]

IBBWT is based on having a resevoir of confidence. It's not blindly following, that's closer to what JETS fans are exhibiting right now because they're going up against a 40 year history of being snookered into believing this is the year when it never has been.

Lots of people continued to expound on questions and concerns in the wake of the 2002 season, after BB traded their binky to a division rival and he went to the pro bowl while we missed the playoffs. Then came 2003 when he cut bait including another revered binky (mine ) and started out 2-2 including a humiliating 31-0 loss to that same division rival(in a game where Bledsoe's replacement threw 4 picks despite not having any ACL repair or rusty mechanics issues...) while placing his shiny new FA OLB on IR after week 2. Somehow though despite evidence of turnover, tumult and maneuvers sufficient to support the contention that mistakes had been and were likely being made, they managed to string together 15 in a row on the way to Lombardi #2 (in a bizarre game where nobody could score a point until just before halftime when suddenly neither team could stop the other from scoring points...).

I think far more problems with this team exist in the minds of members of this board than ever exist in the bowels of Gillette. Fanatics are by nature torn between unrealistic expectations and the need to say I told you so when they aren't met (or even when they are if not in the way they proposed it should be). That dichotomy, combined with a lot of agenda driven opinions fueled by arrogance, ignorance or just the old standby testosterone driven ego doesn't make for terribly intelligent discourse.

This board is polarized as a result. We can't rationally look at or discuss things critically because of all the mindless criticism that unleashes. And we can't support this team because of all the anti homer backlash that unleashes. There is no middle of the road or opportunity for developing concensus here anymore. This is board warfare and all sides are dug in. People suddenly care more about supporting their own posting principles and opinions than they actually do about supporting or rationally analyzing this team.

I hear lots of arguments that start out with the premise: what else are we supposed to do here...this is a message board :blahblah: (implying that they all exist merely as venues to argue and outlets for frustration). Similar to Felger's sports talk radio rationale (happy is boring). But this is a Patriots fans message board Ian intended to establish as a community of what he claimed were the best fans on earth. On that basis this place is becomming an EPIC FAIL. People used to come here to follow the latest news, interact with folks with similar interest in the team, talk about football and team issues and believe it or not sometimes learn something simply by lurking and reading some fairly intelligent posters who perhaps knew a little more than them about X's and O's or a whole lot more than most about the salary cap... Now they come here to spar and jab and spew insults at each other or the players or the team...or to crash the server while adding their 2 cents to the latest eposide of an ego driven show that premiered back in 2006, patsfans pissing match meltdown.

Another excellent post. Now I'm not sure whether I prefer spacecrimes or Mo's.

 

[Deus Irae]

This might be the greatest post ever on a football message board.

Certainly the best on this site in a while. Unsuprisingly it was not repsonded to.

It was responded to:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/275255-bb-we-trust.html#post1517732

 

[maverick4]

It's absurd to try to claim that going into games Belichick wanted to throw 100 times through 2 games, or only to blitz a rookie QB a total of 3 times all game. You're not giving enough (or any) credit to the coordinators for their success or failure.

And I'm sure anyone questioning the defense in 2005, or the quality of our WR's in 2006, or wondering if in 2007 the team had peaked too early would have been going against history too. Problem is those teams had weaknesses others were pointing out that you were all to happy to gloss over with the same refrain you're singing here. We know... trust BB cuz he's got it all planned out and the the things that look like problems now are really not problems because BB, in his infinite wisdom, foresaw them and created contingencies for each.

Here are some of your similar posts from years past singing the same old song. Problem is the people with the concerns over the team's play were eventually shown to have been right. Your blind optimism? Not so much.

2005 2006 2007

Great post. At least he's been consistent in being a complete blind homer through the years. It's certainly a lot easier to say 'BB has earned my forever trust, thus I will parrot the same kool-aid line no matter [x]'.

 

[italia44]

MOLEWIS......does...ROCK!:singing:

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The moves that aren't great are not mistakes.

It is a grave misunderstanding to think that all NFL moves should be successful.

Not true at all, especially in a business that is based of predictions of human behavior. How will this player adapt from college to the pros? We know how that player played with that team. How will he play in ours? Many variables.

What you need is a philosophy that will yield the greatest number of successes. Once you have that philosophy, it doesn't matter if some or even many of your decisions do not produce. What matters is that your system produces as many as can be expected given the randomness and inexactitude of many of the possible decisions.

The only proof of philosophies is: Does it work? In the case of BB/SP, Polian, etc they work. The fact that some of their decisions did not produce does not mean they were bad decisions. If you never go beyond boundaries, you are operating too conservatively.

The same applies to coaching, to training, to everything, not just in football. Football is just more susceptible to this than, say, buying a used car. When you buy a used car, there are signs most people use for their buying philosophy/process. If the car is clean insdie and out, if it has low mileage, if it is a one-owner car and you know the owner, the chances are that it will be a better buy than a similar car that is filthy inside and out, has high mileage, and is owned by a tattoed 20 year-old living in a slum.

Now, if you buy the clean car and it turns out to need repair after repair, it does not mean your decision-making process was wrong. You were bitten by chance. If someone, like DI, for instance, finds fault and wants you to change your methods, it would be a mistake. Your decision making was sound, even if the clean, low mileage, one-owner car turns out bad and the beater runs maintenance free for years.

The whining and complaining done by DI is hindsight based on happenstance. They are the fathers who will berate their children for being late to get home. "You should have taken Broad Street, not Elm Street. There was an accident on Elm." They don't care that Broad Street is generally the best choice, and will be the best choice next time. Rather than reward the good process used, they use the happenstance result as a means to carp and complain.

It is really really dumb. I'm sure there is a reason for this behavior, but it is still dumb.

I just wanted to add to the last poster's comment that this quoted post is a diamond in the rough. All of these things were articulated so well and I think a lot of fans feel exactly the same way.

Go back to 2001 and I'll tell you that we will win 8 out of the next 9 games at the Meadowlands. Do you want to take this deal, or question the head coach's philosophy? I would equate most people on this board as amateur webmd readers who think they know how a great doctor went wrong in one of his complicated open heart surgeries that involves grafting, sutures, and stints. The funny thing is, we don't even have access to the tapes that NFL organizations have... we see about 30-40% of a play, and even if you watch the game live your brain isn't going to instantly evaluated 22 different players on each play. Why do you think the Patriots need to break down film after the game? And these are the players who were actually seeing the action head-on.

Suppose I were to tell you now that in the next 22 games, Tom Brady will win 21 of them. Do you want to change the way things are done, hoping to win all 22, at the risk of winning 11?

Football is not an exact science. Most people have been completely spoiled by a head coach who calls the correct plays around 80% of the time and gets outcoached maybe 2-3 times all season, at the expense of other coaches.

It's WEEK TWO!!!! The regular season is 1/8 of the way over now, and there are 7/8 left to play. I'll put my money on Belichick, Brady, and co. to get the job done just like they have done in the 2000s better at a higher success rate than any team has ever done, ever, in the history of the league.

 

[maverick4]

The biggest problem with the blind homers here is they can't separate/see that the criticisms of the team can still be done with the ABSOLUTE confidence that Belichick is the best ever and that nobody could do a better head coaching job than he.

I personally think there's a chance the team could be 3-3 or even 3-4 in win/loss record, and *still* win the Superbowl this year, because I think Belichick is the greatest coach in the modern era.

Also, there are posters here not flipping out over one loss. These posters did not flip out over any of the losses from 01-04 either. A lot of the criticisms have to do with play-calling tendencies, many of which are NOT under the direct domain of Belichick.

To keep claiming that Belichick is a control freak/micro-manager who okay's every single play call every week, is giving the man too much credit/blame, and too little credit/blame to the people who work for him.

 

[Ring 6]

And I'm sure anyone questioning the defense in 2005, or the quality of our WR's in 2006, or wondering if in 2007 the team had peaked too early would have been going against history too. Problem is those teams had weaknesses others were pointing out that you were all to happy to gloss over with the same refrain you're singing here. We know... trust BB cuz he's got it all planned out and the the things that look like problems now are really not problems because BB, in his infinite wisdom, foresaw them and created contingencies for each.

Here are some of your similar posts from years past singing the same old song. Problem is the people with the concerns over the team's play were eventually shown to have been right. Your blind optimism? Not so much.

2005 2006 2007

To be fair we could probably go back to the years we won (although I don't think the system goes back that far) and find the same kind of threads with people worrying about the flaws and you castigating them for their lack of faith in BB. Of course you'd have been right in those instances as any of those flaws ultimately did not prove fatal those particular years. Point is there's plenty of "history" where it doesn't all end in glory too.

Idk, maybe the whole thing is really just a crapshoot (the best laid plans of mice and BB notwithstanding).

The 2007 team lost 1 game.
The 2006 team went to the AFCC
The 2005 team overcame those problems to advance to the divisional round peaking on defense.

I think you are far, far off the mark if you think that any criticism leveled is correct if the result is not a SB victory.
I dont know what the underlined years mean. I know that my outlook on this team has been very positive and the results have as well.
Are you saying we should approach this from the perspective that we win the SB or we suck?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The 2007 team lost 1 game.
The 2006 team went to the AFCC
The 2005 team overcame those problems to advance to the divisional round peaking on defense.

I think you are far, far off the mark if you think that any criticism leveled is correct if the result is not a SB victory.
I dont know what the underlined years mean. I know that my outlook on this team has been very positive and the results have as well.
Are you saying we should approach this from the perspective that we win the SB or we suck?

Apparently if you don't win a Super Bowl every year, it's the direct result of bad mistakes. Hey, so what if there are 31 other NFL teams out there scratching and clawing 24-7 to try to beat you.

I've always been proud of the way this team plays the game. Belichick/Brady have a better winning percentage than any other QB/coach combo in the history of the NFL. Better than Montana/Walsh, better than Bradshaw/Knoll, better than Manning/Dungy, better than Stuabach/ Halas. The only coach-QB combination that is better is Ryan/Sanchez, but that isn't fair because they will likely win their next 100 games en route to 7 consecutive Super Bowl wins.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

The 2007 team lost 1 game.
The 2006 team went to the AFCC
The 2005 team overcame those problems to advance to the divisional round peaking on defense.

I think you are far, far off the mark if you think that any criticism leveled is correct if the result is not a SB victory.
I dont know what the underlined years mean. I know that my outlook on this team has been very positive and the results have as well.
Are you saying we should approach this from the perspective that we win the SB or we suck?

No. Not saying SB or we suck. But even you must admit that the team's level of play so far is nowhere near what you had thought it would be coming into the season. That doesn't disappoint you somewhat?

Most of us thought the Patriots were the sole NFL superpower and prohibitive favorites to win it all at the start of the season. When the favorite comes stumbling out of the gates like this it's only natural that it should raise questions along with the fan's eyebrows. Don't you think?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Every now and then I come across a post where someone says that BB the genius has basically sandbagged and what appears to be a loss was a secret plan all along to x, y, and z... you know, the tinfoil helmet stuff. That's what I call kool-aid drinking.

What I've seen of the games this year tells me more than anything else we've got some rust problems at QB (not surprising,) that we're coping with a hole at ILB at the moment, and that sometimes the other team wins.

Sometimes I do get the critiques, but other times I put them through the "what if" filter. If a team abandons the run and loses the game, and that is the basis of the critique... well, what if the team continues to doggedly gain 1-4 yards on carries and does it on 3rd and 7 instead (just for example)? How many 4th and 3s until the critique is that 3rd and 7 is obviously a passing down and distance? Obviously this is greatly simplified, but the point is that the missing information in playcalling critiques is what would have happened otherwise. And obviously this applies to personnel moves (WHAT? they got rid of THE FRANCHISE for that kid from Michigan??? The "game manager???" Are you kidding me????!?!??!) as well.

By the way, the above were my sentiments when they kept Brady and cut Drew. I even had some feelings having to do w/"showing loyalty to a class act," etc. Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.

I guess what I'm saying is that "In BB We Trust" isn't a blind thing for me so much as the outcome of having tested and rejected the "I know better than BB" model.

Sometimes one looks at a Norv Turner or a Jim Zorn with a sense of nostalgia. Remember those lovely halcyon days of **** mcphereson, where the mantra wasn't "my favorite ring? The next one," but "Somebody needs a huggg"? Remember those great times under Pete Carroll, when nobody would shut down your expert [sic] opinion with a mindless "In Pete We Trust"?

The problem for us NE fans right now is that it is very, very unlikely that we've made a better call than the NE front office or coaching staff in any given circumstance. This cannot be said for previous coaches or front offices here, and is not the case for most teams around the league. Sure there were stinker decisions, and others we fans can bicker about. My belief that Chad Jackson was to be the answer at WR1 was never born out. Boo hoo. I believe in that same draft I said "damn those steelers that Palaumalau [sp] kid is going to be hell on us!" I also gritted my teeth and dealt with it when we couldn't get a number of big names now out of the NFL who had a year or two of near-adequacy as first rounders.

But here's the thing: the present Pats staff out-thinks and out-guesses the majority of the rest of the league the majority of the time. Now, even if we accept that the average guy in his boxers drinking beer is smarter than Norv -- not too much of a stretch -- it is quite another thing to think that of the better coaches and FOs in the NFL. In all seriousness, yes, Norv too is probably smarter than me. But you can say with no compunction that you could pick a guy out of the stands and do better than Norv because he's such a schmuck. Not so w/BB.

A lot of ranting here all to say, it's just a tough sell for guys to tell me that BB just can't realize after obsessive film study and observation at practices what I can pick up on a slackadaisical beer-fueled Sunday shout fest.

I know that's half of being a fan... but maybe it's a "bigger half" of being a fan when your team can't even conceive of a title run.

PFnV

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Nobody should lose faith in a BB team, but I do think the offensive and defensive coordinators are the weakest we have had in a long time. I hope Peas is replaced or demoted after the season, no creativity at all in his play calling.

Due to the influx of rookies and new players they are not capable of running anything but at the time in the season, now if they're running vanilla schemes and were still losing in dec then we got a problem but I think as time goes on the D will get better and more creative. This is essentially a rebuilding year on the fly. If we make the playoffs and look good going into the playoffs it will exceed my expectations and it will be a rarity as most teams have to fall down before they can pop back up again.

 

[Ring 6]

No need to exaggerate/twist what I said. So many contradictions in the above post, not sure where to start....

1. The very different offensive and defensive styles we have seen from 2000-present have not all been dictated merely by our personnel talent, or dictated by Belichick in minute detail. If it were, teams would not be regularly trying to hire our assistants as coaches, for being robots. It is understood by most NFL owners and GM's (but not by yourself) that the Pats coordinators who have had success and landed other jobs, had a degree of autonomy (and thus credit) in their success.

2. Belichick deciding to talk with Urban Meyer about his offense, and instructing McDaniels to incorporate/adapt it for the NFL, is completely different from McDaniels or O'Brien deciding to use exclusively one or two formations, over and over.

3. It makes no sense how you can attribute skill/success to McDaniels or Weiss from their past achievements, and then in the next breadth say they were merely robots executing what micro-manager Belichick instructed in excruciating detail. Either they had some skill/talent themselves as coordinators, or they were robots. You can't claim both.

4. It also makes no sense to take credit away from Pioli as a general manager.

Basically, you can't keep claiming Bill Belichick is an obsessed micro-manager managing a bunch of robots under him, and then also praise Pioli/McDaniels/Weiss/Crennel/etc for being good coordinators or general managers.

I didnt call BB 'obsessed' I said that he is in charge, and coordinators do not have the freedom to adopt scheme, philosphy or gameplan that are not consistent with what he directs them to do.
His underlings are hired because they learned from him, not because they taught him.
This is just getting out of control.
MANY good managers dictate philosophy, pass their philosophy down to their direct reports, and monitor and assess their work.
You are implying that BB gives them an outline and then ignores them. That is assinine.
They work TOGETHER with BB in charge. He is the leader and he makes the scheme, philosophy and game plan decisions. Why is that so difficult to understand? What do you think he does?
You have somehow turned a good manager who has discipline in his organization and has figured out how to have reach across his entire organization into "an obsessed micro-manager managing a bunch of robots under him". Thats crazy.
Yes, the coordinators success was because they were carrying out the scheme, philosophy and gameplan of BB. Yes, part of their job is to develop strategy and gameplan, but their opinions are approved or not by BB. You seem to think that BB is surprised to find that we run the shotgun a lot, and severely disagrees with it, but doesnt want to step on the OC toes. Thats way off the mark.

I dont know where I took credit away from Pioli, but BB was the person who taught Pioli how to do his job, so you tell me who dictated philosophy, and who's standards Pioli makes decisions based upon.
Working for an outstanding leader who teaches you how to do the job that reports to him the right way is not a condemnation of the employee, it is actually a complement to what they grew into.

Sorry, but the "lets say BB ignores the coordinators, so I can trash the coordinator without sounding like I am trashing BB' ploy isnt working here.

 

[BionicPatriot]

The moves that aren't great are not mistakes.

It is a grave misunderstanding to think that all NFL moves should be successful.

Not true at all, especially in a business that is based of predictions of human behavior. How will this player adapt from college to the pros? We know how that player played with that team. How will he play in ours? Many variables.

What you need is a philosophy that will yield the greatest number of successes. Once you have that philosophy, it doesn't matter if some or even many of your decisions do not produce. What matters is that your system produces as many as can be expected given the randomness and inexactitude of many of the possible decisions.

The only proof of philosophies is: Does it work? In the case of BB/SP, Polian, etc they work. The fact that some of their decisions did not produce does not mean they were bad decisions. If you never go beyond boundaries, you are operating too conservatively.

The same applies to coaching, to training, to everything, not just in football. Football is just more susceptible to this than, say, buying a used car. When you buy a used car, there are signs most people use for their buying philosophy/process. If the car is clean insdie and out, if it has low mileage, if it is a one-owner car and you know the owner, the chances are that it will be a better buy than a similar car that is filthy inside and out, has high mileage, and is owned by a tattoed 20 year-old living in a slum.

Now, if you buy the clean car and it turns out to need repair after repair, it does not mean your decision-making process was wrong. You were bitten by chance. If someone, like DI, for instance, finds fault and wants you to change your methods, it would be a mistake. Your decision making was sound, even if the clean, low mileage, one-owner car turns out bad and the beater runs maintenance free for years.

The whining and complaining done by DI is hindsight based on happenstance. They are the fathers who will berate their children for being late to get home. "You should have taken Broad Street, not Elm Street. There was an accident on Elm." They don't care that Broad Street is generally the best choice, and will be the best choice next time. Rather than reward the good process used, they use the happenstance result as a means to carp and complain.

It is really really dumb. I'm sure there is a reason for this behavior, but it is still dumb.

Beautiful post, and I agree all the way. I think people here expect Bill to be the best at everything year in and out. Don't even tell me that's not the case, I mean the Patriots have looked bad in 2 games and people are questioning the organization, bringing up bad FAs, picks, etc. Butlike spacecrime said, it's not about perfection 365 days out of every year. It's about building a team that year in and out is a factor in its conference, with years of great dominance between. Will the Patriots acquire older veterans for a 2-3 year run with a possible 1-2 year window of issues once they leave? Absolutely.

Why? Because Belichick knows he has built a solid enough organization to withstand chips to the armor. Every year in the NFL is a change and every year brings a new strength and weakness with the salary cap. You have years where you're loaded, years where you suck, and years where you're good. I think Belichick's philosophy is to build a team that is consistently good enough to bring years of dominance and withstand the harder years.

In other words, he builds his football team's strength enough to where even though they may be weak in position X, they're loaded at position O. How many years can we say we've had huge holes? How many years can we say this team hasn't been good enough for 10+ wins? I see all these people nitpicking about bad FA signings and bad draft selections. It's easy to build some type of list considering Bill has been here now for a decade pretty much.

But look at the big picture. How many bad draft picks does he have compared to good? How many does he have compared to the league? Remember now, this is a guy slotted in the 20's at least EVERY year except twice I think. Tell me how many bad FA signings we've had compared to other teams. Now tell me how many good ones we've had.

Everyone is going to make mistakes, and of course they will over time. But to nit pick at bad choices when we have been littered with good ones is why people say Boston fans ***** so much. I'm telling you right now, I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team because there isn't a team that has a HC and QB as long as we have being as good as they have.

To expect 16-0, 14-2 every single season is absurd, but at the same time shows the amazing expectations we have become accustomed to under Belichick. I don't think the people here telling the people who are questioning this organization's philosophy to shut it are being homers, I think they're being rational. I think the people complaining THIS much to a point where we need threads like this for a HC of Bill's caliber after one stinking week 2 loss are the ones being irrational.

All I ask every single year is to have a chance, and that's it. If some others here choose to expect more and cry posting topic after topic about it, that's fine. But when you're laughed at for being a chicken little, don't just blame it on us beings homers. Blame it on you choosing to panic and vent about it when there is no point to yet.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't "cherry picking" individual mistakes. I was pointing out examples of mistakes and noting that more were made. Your 'argument' is really a non-argument in the context of the thread and my post, because we were asked to give reasons and that's what I was doing. If you want to blindly follow Belichick, you should do so. I choose not to take that path.

Actually you were asked to give reasons that TURNED OUT TO BE LEGITIMATE, not reasons for your current hand-wringing.

 

[maverick4]

You are implying that BB gives them an outline and then ignores them. That is assinine.
They work TOGETHER with BB in charge. He is the leader and he makes the scheme, philosophy and game plan decisions.
You have somehow turned a good manager who has discipline in his organization and has figured out how to have reach across his entire organization into "an obsessed micro-manager managing a bunch of robots under him".
Yes, the coordinators success was because they were carrying out the scheme, philosophy and gameplan of BB. Yes, part of their job is to develop strategy and gameplan, but their opinions are approved or not by BB. You seem to think that BB is surprised to find that we run the shotgun a lot, and severely disagrees with it, but doesnt want to step on the OC toes. Thats way off the mark.

You give Belichick way too much credit/blame. In no way did I imply he ignores his coordinators. Clearly he regularly meets with his coordinators, as ANY boss does, to go over their work and give his feedback, direction, vision, and corrections.

Belichick is the best and most knowledgeable coach of the modern era. He is, however, not a micro manager dictator who should receive all blame or credit for everything the Patriots do.

Bill Belichick isn't the type of over-bearing boss who over-rules his coordinators, hangs them out to try, publicly criticizes them, or micro-manages them. He has NEVER fired one of his coordinators in his 9 years here as head coach. Even when Eric Mangini was calling horrible plays week in and week out in 2005, Belichick did not over-ride his coordinator until very late in the season, even though he himself is a defensive whiz.

To claim that only blitzing a rookie QB 3 total times, or to pass 100 times in 2 games, or that repeatedly using shot gun the vast majority of your plays is all Belichick-approved, is ridiculous.

Since after repeated posts you're too lazy to research that your micro-manage claim is WRONG:

"I've learned to delegate things more and take a broader stroke. I'm more cognizant of things going on with our players' outside lives. And I've used our captains more to listen to the messages from the team and to get across my message to the team." - Belichick, 16 nov 2003

All Things Bill Belichick: Bill Belichick Quotes

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=522

"Belichick entrusts coordination of the team's offense, defense, and special teams to his coordinators."
- book 'Management Secrets of the New England Patriots'

http://books.google.com/books?id=F1...esult&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[BionicPatriot]

No. Not saying SB or we suck. But even you must admit that the team's level of play so far is nowhere near what you had thought it would be coming into the season. That doesn't disappoint you somewhat?

Most of us thought the Patriots were the sole NFL superpower and prohibitive favorites to win it all at the start of the season. When the favorite comes stumbling out of the gates like this it's only natural that it should raise questions along with the fan's eyebrows. Don't you think?

That's ridiculous. So YOU expect us to come out 5-0 winning every game by at least 20, and because they don't we should question them? Let me ask you. How do YOU know Belichick didn't sit down with his wife one July night and said. "Man it's gonna be a tough 4 week stretch easing Tom back in"

What if this was his plan all along? It would explain the ridiculous number of attempts, no? It's not like the run game hasn't worked. I doubt that we see it and the coaches fail to see it. So again, unless you expected them to go undefeated, saying they have issues here and there is so anal at this point because it's so early.

For all you know, BB could just be planning this. Not planning to lose, never would I say such an absurd thing, but rather to ease Tom back in. He is our franchise, and he is priority number one right? So again, unless we see this **** happening game 6, why post topic after topics *****ing already? People here are way too reactionary.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

If we'd only found a way to trade up for Tim Couch, we're not having this conversation

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Due to the influx of rookies and new players they are not capable of running anything but at the time in the season, now if they're running vanilla schemes and were still losing in dec then we got a problem but I think as time goes on the D will get better and more creative. This is essentially a rebuilding year on the fly. If we make the playoffs and look good going into the playoffs it will exceed my expectations and it will be a rarity as most teams have to fall down before they can pop back up again.

Dude, you're already at "rebuilding year???"

After game 2, 2008, the wife and I had just come back from a pilgrammage to Foxboro where Miami had just whooped our patriotic buttocks wildcat-style, sealing (in retrospect) playoff-missing 11-5 year.

Everybody here was ready to hang it up after game 2. You know, Cassel can't play, O'Connell should be starting, blah blah blah. And of course, "This season is so over."

Fun fact: teams make the playoffs at 15-1 and even lesser records all the time. In fact, they even make it after losing 2 straight games, something you'll note the Pats have not done.

Christ on a crutch. Who was it that looked like world-beaters after 2 games last year? I bet not the Cards and Steelers. I may remember wrong of course, but it's not likely.

Is Brady Carson Palmer minus 1 year? Is this defense really some sort of gang of pathetic losers (despite a better performance in game 2 than g1?) Of is it possible that losing one early is actually better than going 18-0 regular season only to lose the big one?

For the answers to these and other questions, FREAKIN WATCH 14 MORE GAMES

Seriously dude... too soon

 

[Ring 6]

You give Belichick way too much credit/blame. In no way did I imply he ignores his coordinators. Clearly he regularly meets with his coordinators, as ANY boss does, to go over their work and give his feedback, direction, vision, and corrections.

Belichick is the best and most knowledgeable coach of the modern era. He is, however, not a micro manager dictator who should receive all blame or credit for everything the Patriots do.

Bill Belichick isn't the type of over-bearing boss who over-rules his coordinators, hangs them out to try, publicly criticizes them, or micro-manages them. He has NEVER fired one of his coordinators in his 9 years here as head coach. Even when Eric Mangini was calling horrible plays week in and week out in 2005, Belichick did not over-ride his coordinator until very late in the season, even though he himself is a defensive whiz.

To claim that only blitzing a rookie QB 3 total times, or to pass 100 times in 2 games, or that repeatedly using shot gun the vast majority of your plays is all Belichick-approved, is ridiculous.

Since after repeated posts you're too lazy to research that your micro-manage claim is WRONG:

"I've learned to delegate things more and take a broader stroke. I'm more cognizant of things going on with our players' outside lives. And I've used our captains more to listen to the messages from the team and to get across my message to the team." - Belichick, 16 nov 2003

All Things Bill Belichick: Bill Belichick Quotes

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Media Blitz: Halberstam on Belichick

"Belichick entrusts coordination of the team's offense, defense, and special teams to his coordinators."
- book 'Management Secrets of the New England Patriots'

Management Secrets of the New ... - Google Books

Let me make sure I understand.
Bill Belichick is so uninvolved in this team that Dean Pees created and executed a game plan that you are certain BB thinks sucked, and he sat by and let it happen.
I dont think you need to say any more.

By the way, the quotes and sources dont prove the point you are trying to prove.

 

[maverick4]

Let me make sure I understand.
Bill Belichick is so uninvolved in this team that Dean Pees created and executed a game plan that you are certain BB thinks sucked, and he sat by and let it happen.

Here you go again wildly exaggerating and twisting what was said, because you don't have anything to stand on.


I'm not even going to bother repeating what was written. Everyone else can go back and read what I wrote, and how you wildly misinterpreted it. Either you did it deliberately, which is pretty low, or you didn't legitimately understand it which is probably even more embarrassing.