In All Seriousness, How Would Bill Pass On A Pass Rusher This Year??

[Joey007]

I know Bill is one of the best coaches in the game's history, and he choses players right for our team. But seriously, how could he possibly pass on drafting a pass rusher AGAIN this year considering we got most of our offensive positions filled?

I could understand last year we had more needs. At running back we had no speed outside of Woodhead, at WR we had no deep threat (though Bill didn't draft any), and our O-line was a big concern. Now that we drafted Ridley and Vereen last year, we got Lloyd, and we've improved our O-line by making sure it has plenty of depth (drafted Solder, Cannon, picked up Waters, Gallery) The only pick I think we should make on offense this year is maybe a center in rounds 2-3. I DO NOT want us to spend one of our firsts on a center because we do have Connolly, who proved last year he can start.

Back to our needs, I know our secondary got torched last year, but I think giving McCourty a full offseason, getting Ras-I Dowling healthy, and bringing in vets Will Allen and Steve Gregory really helps out alot. (Oh, and also not having WR's play CB, that would help too) I think with that all we need to do is draft Harrison Smith with our 48th pick to fill in the safety spot and our Secondary is ready to go for 2012.

Solution: Me personally, I think trading up both 1st's for Melvin Ingram would be one of the best descisions Bill has made in a long time. I think he's the best pass-rusher, maybe one of the best defensive players in this whole draft. But then again, we all know the hoodie usually knows what's best, not us. But hopefully, this will finally be the year. We can only hope, anyways.

 

[Jimke]

Don't bet your house on the Patriots drafting a pass rusher or defensive lineman on day one or two of the draft. Maybe, a late round pick like Markell Carter.

 

[Sciz]

It's not that hard. He just has to decide that there's a better player available at each pick.

 

[mgteich]

Let me understand you strategy

1) use both firsts for Ingram
2) #48 for Harrison Smith
3) a 2nd or 3rd for a center

YOUR PLAN
Your entire plan to improve the defensive front seven is to trade up for Ingram, because he is the best pass-rusher in the draft.
====================================================
MY RESPONSE
A) Ingram isn't worth 2 firsts. Picking 2 players ar 27 and 31 giving us better chances of success in 2012 and in the future.
B) Harrison Smith is not worth a #48, certainly not to the patriots. We need a free safety.
We'd be much better off with Martin at #62 to fill the need at safety (or even Henry at 125). Alternatively, we could draft a corner with idea of one of the corners playing free safety.
C) Yes we need an OLB/DE. However, we need a DE at least as much..

ALTERNATIVE
Draft 3 new defensive front seven additions (could be DT, DE, and OLB), and use the 4th pick for a defensive back. We would still have a 3rd and 4th to use for an OL and a WR.

I understand that Belichick will trade a pick or two into 2013, but we likely retain the same number picks in the 1st 2 rounds (or certainly the first 3).

BOTTOM LINE
DE/OLB/DT/DB
IMHO, this is a much better plan that Ingram and Harrison Smith.

I know Bill is one of the best coaches in the game's history, and he choses players right for our team. But seriously, how could he possibly pass on drafting a pass rusher AGAIN this year considering we got most of our offensive positions filled?

I could understand last year we had more needs. At running back we had no speed outside of Woodhead, at WR we had no deep threat (though Bill didn't draft any), and our O-line was a big concern. Now that we drafted Ridley and Vereen last year, we got Lloyd, and we've improved our O-line by making sure it has plenty of depth (drafted Solder, Cannon, picked up Waters, Gallery) The only pick I think we should make on offense this year is maybe a center in rounds 2-3. I DO NOT want us to spend one of our firsts on a center because we do have Connolly, who proved last year he can start.

Back to our needs, I know our secondary got torched last year, but I think giving McCourty a full offseason, getting Ras-I Dowling healthy, and bringing in vets Will Allen and Steve Gregory really helps out alot. (Oh, and also not having WR's play CB, that would help too) I think with that all we need to do is draft Harrison Smith with our 48th pick to fill in the safety spot and our Secondary is ready to go for 2012.

Solution: Me personally, I think trading up both 1st's for Melvin Ingram would be one of the best descisions Bill has made in a long time. I think he's the best pass-rusher, maybe one of the best defensive players in this whole draft. But then again, we all know the hoodie usually knows what's best, not us. But hopefully, this will finally be the year. We can only hope, anyways.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I'm gearing myself down for Amini Simatolu - G- Bumbleep Egypt at 27 and trading out at 31. Not getting my hopes up.

 

[Sciz]

MY RESPONSE
A) Ingram isn't worth 2 firsts. Picking 2 players ar 27 and 31 giving us better chances of success in 2012 and in the future.

I'll take that a step further and say that I don't think Ingram is worth 1 first. I think he's among the most overrated players in this draft and would have basically no chance of succeeding in the Pats' scheme.

 

[reflexblue]

I know Bill is one of the best coaches in the game's history, and he choses players right for our team. But seriously, how could he possibly pass on drafting a pass rusher AGAIN this year considering we got most of our offensive positions filled?

I could understand last year we had more needs. At running back we had no speed outside of Woodhead, at WR we had no deep threat (though Bill didn't draft any), and our O-line was a big concern. Now that we drafted Ridley and Vereen last year, we got Lloyd, and we've improved our O-line by making sure it has plenty of depth (drafted Solder, Cannon, picked up Waters, Gallery) The only pick I think we should make on offense this year is maybe a center in rounds 2-3. I DO NOT want us to spend one of our firsts on a center because we do have Connolly, who proved last year he can start.

Back to our needs, I know our secondary got torched last year, but I think giving McCourty a full offseason, getting Ras-I Dowling healthy, and bringing in vets Will Allen and Steve Gregory really helps out alot. (Oh, and also not having WR's play CB, that would help too) I think with that all we need to do is draft Harrison Smith with our 48th pick to fill in the safety spot and our Secondary is ready to go for 2012.

Solution: Me personally, I think trading up both 1st's for Melvin Ingram would be one of the best descisions Bill has made in a long time. I think he's the best pass-rusher, maybe one of the best defensive players in this whole draft. But then again, we all know the hoodie usually knows what's best, not us. But hopefully, this will finally be the year. We can only hope, anyways.

If he passed on one last year he certainly could pass on one this year. Last year was loaded withe DE's and OLB's

 

[rookBoston]

Maybe he thinks Scott and Carpenter are better than anything he'll get in the draft. If he can solve DT, DE, WR, OG, OC, S and/or CB instead... then it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[PATSNUTme]

We all want a better pass rush. Last year I wanted him to go up and take Smith or another couple of guys. He took Nate Solder instead and I can't argue with the pick.

Would an improved secondary create a better pass rush? Would a better LB's create a better pass rush? Will McC be better CB if he has a better safety next to him and he doesn't have to worry about coverage in back of him?

So by drafting a better safety or a better LB or a better CB will that help the pass rush, without drafting a "pass rusher"? the answer is- Yes.

 

[supafly]

We all want a better pass rush. Last year I wanted him to go up and take Smith or another couple of guys. He took Nate Solder instead and I can't argue with the pick.

Would an improved secondary create a better pass rush? Would a better LB's create a better pass rush? Will McC be better CB if he has a better safety next to him and he doesn't have to worry about coverage in back of him?

So by drafting a better safety or a better LB or a better CB will that help the pass rush, without drafting a "pass rusher"? the answer is- Yes.

I agree. I think it will be more of a committee approach, in reference to replacing the 10 sacks lost by Anderson. Everyone's looking for 'that player,' but I think it will be a combination of players that get us near last yr's sack total (which isn't everything in itself anyway).

There's no doubt that improving the secondary will go hand in hand with improving the pass rush.

 

[ATippett56]

Solution: Me personally, I think trading up both 1st's for Melvin Ingram would be one of the best descisions Bill has made in a long time. I think he's the best pass-rusher, maybe one of the best defensive players in this whole draft. But then again, we all know the hoodie usually knows what's best, not us. But hopefully, this will finally be the year. We can only hope, anyways.

It is more likely the New England Patriots will trade down one of the two first round draft picks than move up. The outside pass rush (4-3 DE/3-4 OLB) draft class is weaker in 2012 than 2011.

 

[mgteich]

I try to be a bit less blunt than you do; but I do agree. If Ingram were available at 27, I would find a trading partner. He almost assuredly is worth more to someone else than to us.

I'll take that a step further and say that I don't think Ingram is worth 1 first. I think he's among the most overrated players in this draft and would have basically no chance of succeeding in the Pats' scheme.

 

[mgteich]

I would tend to agree. Belichick might conclude that no OLB (at where we might draft him) is better for us than going forward with Ninkovich and Scott. After all, we had Ninkovich and Anderson last year. We ill have Carpenter, Cunningham, Carter, Koutouvides, Tarpinian, and an addition free agent JAG or two competing for the backup or developmental positions.

BTW, the closer we come, the more I put DT, DE and DB at the top of my list. A top corner would give us lots of flexibility and provide solid value within the first 50 picks of the draft. As with OLB, I don't see a starting safety in this draft for us.

Maybe he thinks Scott and Carpenter are better than anything he'll get in the draft. If he can solve DT, DE, WR, OG, OC, S and/or CB instead... then it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[ATippett56]

As with OLB, I don't see a starting safety in this draft for us.

Shea McClellin from Boise State may be a very interesting candidate for the 3-4 outside linebacker position. Shea McClellin has experience playing inside linebacker, outside linebacker, and defensive end. Bill Belichick loves flexibility. Food for thought.

I would not bother until the bottom of the third round for a safety in the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[manxman2601]

Shea McClellin from Boise State may be a very interesting candidate for the 3-4 outside linebacker position. Shea McClellin has experience playing inside linebacker, outside linebacker, and defensive end. Bill Belichick loves flexibility. Food for thought.

I would not bother until the bottom of the third round for a safety in the 2012 NFL Draft.

The knock I've see on Shea McLellin is that he's not particularly strong at setting the edge. If we're going OLB in the first or high second round (an unlikely proposition as things stand bearing in mind that we've never done so) I would have to think that BB will require setting the edge as an essential requirement for a high pick OLB. This is the reason why, although I like him, I just can't see him being the pick.

Strongly disagree with you on the safety issue. It's our biggest hole and not only would obtaining a good one be an essential improvement to our defense, but it would help out McCourty who looked lost without over the top help. A quality safety could improve two positions at once (safety and Devin McCourty).

 

[ATippett56]

The knock I've see on Shea McLellin is that he's not particularly strong at setting the edge. If we're going OLB in the first or high second round (an unlikely proposition as things stand bearing in mind that we've never done so) I would have to think that BB will require setting the edge as an essential requirement for a high pick OLB. This is the reason why, although I like him, I just can't see him being the pick.

I do not wish to expend a first round pick on Shea McClellin. However, a second round pick may provide value. As for setting the edge, a year of strength and conditioning under the supervision of the New England Patriots training staff could suffice.

Strongly disagree with you on the safety issue. It's our biggest hole and not only would obtaining a good one be an essential improvement to our defense, but it would help out McCourty who looked lost without over the top help. A quality safety could improve two positions at once (safety and Devin McCourty).

I am not sold whatsoever on Harrison Smith and Mark Barron will most likely be picked before #27. I don't see the hype about Harrison Smith justified by posters on this message board. As for the rest of the safeties, pot luck.

 

[WhiZa]

If he's going to draft one it wont be till the 3rd round

 

[Water Boy]

Here's my thoughts:

I think Ingram is overrated. Not sure why he's rated so high. I think he's a mid to late first round pick at best. I'd never give up 2 first rounders for him.

Couples, Ingram and Mercilus will be off the board by the time the Patriots pick. The Pats are in a great position to draft Nick Perry, Vinny Curry, Shea McClellin, Andre Branch, etc.

I would love to see the Pats take 2 DE/OLB types - one to replace Anderson and one to replace Cunningham.

 

[patsinthesnow]

#27 S Mark Barron
#31 WR Stephen Hill
#48 CB/FS Trumaine Johnson
#63 C Ben Jones

A BB draft where initially you aren't mad, but then you realize he didn't fill the biggest hole on defense once again. Something like that could happen like last year.

 

[ZoisKing]

I would tend to agree. Belichick might conclude that no OLB (at where we might draft him) is better for us than going forward with Ninkovich and Scott. After all, we had Ninkovich and Anderson last year. We ill have Carpenter, Cunningham, Carter, Koutouvides, Tarpinian, and an addition free agent JAG or two competing for the backup or developmental positions.

BTW, the closer we come, the more I put DT, DE and DB at the top of my list. A top corner would give us lots of flexibility and provide solid value within the first 50 picks of the draft. As with OLB, I don't see a starting safety in this draft for us.

I'm in complete agreement with about everything you've had to offer in this thread mgteich. Good analysis.

Who's the top corner you're thinking of? If Jenkins gets to us at 27, I don't believe Bill will pass.

I'll also jump on the Shea McCleoeoann (sp? bandwagon as he seems to be earning the right type of praise so far. Add Curry as well and hope that one of them can stand out.

So..a top CB with the first pick, then pass rush on the next 3 sounds good to me.