Impact of the rookies

[TheSolderKing]

This is a HUGE joke. Players w/ 2yrs plus experience have access to a playbook. I do not know how many are handed out, but believe me those nice books are all w/ the crew

 

[Ring 6]

The first month of the regular season will be key:

Sep 12 NE @ MIA Sun Life Stadium
Sep 18 SD @ NE Gillette Stadium
Sep 25 NE @ BUF Ralph Wilson Stadium
Oct 02 NE @ OAK O.co Coliseum

Three road games looks daunting but the competition should mitigate that. The Fins, Bills and Raiders will have significant roster shakeups to deal with. The Chargers are relatively intact and pose a significant challenge.

For the RBs, the Raiders and Bills should still struggle against the run so weeks 3 and 4 would be a good time to break out.

Passing will be more of a factor in weeks 1 and 2 against teams the Pats traditionally struggle with. The interesting point is that Wake and Phillips traditionally play the defensive left...so that would be against Vollmer if he stays put. If Solder claims a starting spot, might be a good idea to keep him at LT.

Henne, Fitzgerald and Campbell are reasonable QBs but the lack of TEs for those teams will hurt against the Pats (assuming Zack Miller will be a FA). SD is a much bigger challenge with Rivers and Gates so having Dowling up to speed by week 2 would be optimal.

After the first month, most rookies should be able to find their way onto the field for meaningful snaps. Before then, it looks like the top 4 will have opportunities to make their mark. That will be key because coming out of the 1st quarter at 4-0 or 3-1 will be huge. The next 8 games get more difficult but 5 of those are at home and the longest roadie is to Pittsburgh.

2 things
I think the Chargers have a TON of unsigned starters
I wouldn't call the Fins and Chargers teams we 'struggle' against.

 

[Triumph]

Do people honestly believe there's been no contact between coaching and players? I certainly don't. There's too much at stake for every NFL team to abide by the lockout rules.

We would have heard something about player and coach contact by now.

I believe most teams did play by the rules, If it comes out that they did not, Goodell is good at delivering punishment in the form of fines or forfeited draft selections.

 

[Triumph]

2 things
I think the Chargers have a TON of unsigned starters
I wouldn't call the Fins and Chargers teams we 'struggle' against.

The Pats havent won at Miami in September since 1987. BB has never beat Miami in the month of September as NEs HC.

New England Patriots Vs. Miami Dolphins Results - The Football Database

NE was lucky to win last season vs SD.

New England Patriots Vs. San Diego Chargers Results - The Football Database

 

[Ring 6]

The Pats havent won at Miami in September since 1987. BB has never beat Miami in the month of September as NEs HC.

BB has never faced Miami in September with Tom Brady at QB. Nice try at hyperbole.
I dont think a loss in 2000, and a loss in Cassells 2nd career start are the criteria for struggling.

New England Patriots Vs. Miami Dolphins Results - The Football Database

NE was lucky to win last season vs SD.

New England Patriots Vs. San Diego Chargers Results - The Football Database

The Patriots have won 6 of 8 and 14 of 20 vs Miami. Hardly struggling.
The Patriots have won 4 out of 5 vs SD. Again hardly a case of struggling.

 

[woolster22]

I think we can all agree that the pats can have trouble with the 'fins, especially early in the season and in their house. We have also had some struggles with sd even though out record is pretty good against them. It will be interesting to see what the chargers we crew looks like this year. Their larger wide outs have given us fits in the past. It could be a good gut check game for Mr. McCourtey and Bodden.

Of course, who knows what could happen with the funky off season.

 

[Froob]

The Pats havent won at Miami in September since 1987. BB has never beat Miami in the month of September as NEs HC.

New England Patriots Vs. Miami Dolphins Results - The Football Database

that really isn't relative at all. Seems as if the whole losing in Miami in general has been changing in recent years.

 

[ausbacker]

We would have heard something about player and coach contact by now.

I believe most teams did play by the rules, If it comes out that they did not, Goodell is good at delivering punishment in the form of fines or forfeited draft selections.

Who said anything about player-coach communique. It's more than reasonable to believe an intermediary could pass information back and forth between the players and coaches.

 

[Off The Grid]

Do people honestly believe there's been no contact between coaching and players?

I'm SHOCKED to hear that there's been clandestine contact with players!!

SHOCKED, I tell you!!

 

[DarrylS]

I think Dowling is a player we can afford a slower development with, anyway. If he were anything higher than third or fourth on the depth chart for either CB or S at some point during the season, that would be great, but it's not critical to our success. I'm comfortable with the people ahead of him, and so long as he's worthy of being the nickel back by 2012, I'll be quite happy.

By the way, it's starting to seem pretty clever that all the other positions we drafted high are ones with fairly straight forward transitions from college to the NFL. Considering the lockout, this was an awful good year to stock up on OTs and RBs. It's another fine reminder that the FO is much, much smarter than me.

Have felt similar that this draft was a "lock out draft", no one has to contribute in early September, but if they do it is a bonus for this team. Most of these guys will suffer as they did not experience Rookie Camp, OTA's and the socialization that would integrate them into the culture of the NFL and the Patriots...

Compare to a team that drafted a QB, cannot imagine making a transition from a college team to the NFL in about 7 weeks... quite a leap.

 

[ausbacker]

Have felt similar that this draft was a "lock out draft", no one has to contribute in early September, but if they do it is a bonus for this team. Most of these guys will suffer as they did not experience Rookie Camp, OTA's and the socialization that would integrate them into the culture of the NFL and the Patriots...

Compare to a team that drafted a QB, cannot imagine making a transition from a college team to the NFL in about 7 weeks... quite a leap.

Imagine missing out on Andrew Luck and ending up with Cam "$$" Newton... during a lockout.

 

[Triumph]

BB has never faced Miami in September with Tom Brady at QB. Nice try at hyperbole.
I dont think a loss in 2000, and a loss in Cassells 2nd career start are the criteria for struggling.

The Pats have struggled in the September Miami heat.

The Patriots have won 6 of 8 and 14 of 20 vs Miami. Hardly struggling

We arent talking about games won in NE.

The Patriots have won 4 out of 5 vs SD. Again hardly a case of struggling.

Out of the last 8 SD games, 50% have been decided by 7 points or less. Hardly an easy win.

 

[BlueThunder]

Parity in the NFL....There aren't too many blowout wins (45-3 comes to mind).

I believe I read or heard that most games are won due to 2 or 3 plays made by the winning team....It could be even less plays.....

If Faulk doesn't bobble the catch vs Colts, maybe he gets a first down spot....game over.....

If Brady doesn't force that throw to BJGE vs Jets in playoff game for the INT, the Pats could have gained momentum and forced Jets to play catchup....

Lot's of games that swing on one or two plays......

Just sayin.....winning isn't easy against any team, let alone a team that doesn't usually make mistakes ( See Patriots).....

Pats have made a living off of other teams mistakes....SD evidently made more than Pats did over the past 5 years or so...

 

[Ring 6]

The Pats have struggled in the September Miami heat.

Really? And you know this how?
The last time the Pats played in Miami in September was 2000. Sorry, you got this one wrong.

We arent talking about games won in NE.

We are talking about 'struggling' vs Miami and SD. He didnt isolate games, he said we have struggled vs those teams.

Out of the last 8 SD games, 50% have been decided by 7 points or less. Hardly an easy win.

We have won 5 of those, and have won 4 of the last 5. That is hardly struggling. You 'struggle' against teams that you lose to often, not against teams you consistently beat regardless of margin.
Did the Packers struggle to a SB win last year?

 

[Off The Grid]

We aren't talking about games won in NE.

I'm afraid you're wrong, my good man.

Metaphor ~ see below ~ clearly did not specify road games. :snob:

The first month of the regular season will be key:

Sep 12 NE @ MIA Sun Life Stadium
Sep 18 SD @ NE Gillette Stadium

Passing will be more of a factor in weeks 1 and 2 against teams the Pats traditionally struggle with.

The Patriots have won 6 of 8 and 14 of 20 vs Miami. Hardly struggling.
The Patriots have won 4 of 5 vs SD. Again hardly a case of struggling.

I guess "struggling" is in the eye of the beholder!!

Call me old fashioned, but for me the term "struggle" doesn't evoke thoughts of winning percentages of .700 and .625!!

That's why it's called "domination": other teams ~ with the exception of Denver ~ struggle with us. :rocker:

 

[JoeSixPat]

playbook + photocopier ='s :rocker:

the rookies are being taken care of... I bet they have access to them on a shared basis. The Rookies are in training w/ rest of the team.

The training/interactions have to be outside of the Patriot establishments, but they are still meeting.

Seeing the playbook is a VERY far cry from being involved in team organized practices with coaches addressing everything from strategy to footwork.

In a "normal" year BB would seek to refrain from relying on rookies to start games - especially at the beginning of the season. Even in terms of rotating them in he'd likely limit what he asks them to do.

While a situation like LT is obviously dependent on what offers Matt Light gets from other teams, if Belichick will not be relying on Solder to start in September if he can help it - especially in a season like this where Solder and other rookies will squeeze an entire offseason of OTAs, training, mini-camp, training camp and pre-season games into a 40 day stretch.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Really? And you know this how?
The last time the Pats played in Miami in September was 2000. Sorry, you got this one wrong.

As much as everyone complains about the schedule makers giving the Pats a tough schedule, I've made note of the Miami game every year since then, breathing a sigh of relief when its been later in the fall. (Conversely the Dolphins have had their fair share of cold weather games in Foxboro.)

Even the season-opener starting at 7pm will provide some welcome relief from the heat - and of course, it's not like it's cool in Foxboro in August either - so I expect the Pats can always do fine transitioning from New England August into warm climate September games.

It's those October and even November heat waves in warm climate cities that can really impact a team after the team has grown more accustomed to playing in fall weather.

 

[Metaphors]

We are talking about 'struggling' vs Miami and SD. He didnt isolate games, he said we have struggled vs those teams.

Wasn't precise with my words. When I said "traditionally struggle", I was really focusing on SD in general but Miami on the road specifically (that was the context of the schedule I was referencing). Also, "traditionally" is kind of silly since it really doesn't matter what happened 8-10 years ago, much less in the 70's. "Recently" would have been a better choice of words...something like the last 5 years or so since that would be fairly relevant. Wasn't parsing my words that closely and didn't think my point would be that controversial.

We have won 5 of those, and have won 4 of the last 5. That is hardly struggling. You 'struggle' against teams that you lose to often, not against teams you consistently beat regardless of margin.
Did the Packers struggle to a SB win last year?

Though my use of the word "struggle" was exactly what I meant. I'm not sure how you could watch the recent games against SD and not see them as "struggles". While a loss always indicates a struggle, a win doesn't indicate the reverse. By that logic, the Colts could say they haven't struggled with the Pats recently...which would be silly.

The Fins in Miami is more of a stretch since the Pats have had a few very productive games there. But in watching the games, I have always got the feeling that the Pats have had a much harder time winning in Miami than the talent difference would indicate. Even losing games that they clearly should not have. That seems like a "struggle" to me but to each his own.

Regardless, my point was that even beyond the "Any Given Sunday" argument, the Fins (in Miami) and Bolts seem to pose a greater challenge for the Pats than you might normally think.

 

[jmt57]

As far as who is most likely to struggle, even worse than teams with new quarterbacks are teams with new head coaches. It's hard enough to install a new offense or new defense in your first year as head coach in the NFL; but to do it with no minicamps, no offseason coaching of the players, and nobody - not just rookies, but nobody on the team - gets a new playbook until five weeks before the start of the season?

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if at least one of those teams go winless and another goes 1-15. The Cowboys and Raiders should be okay since their head coaches were coordinators on those teams last year and they have some continuity at QB, but teams like the Panthers and Titans with both a new HC as well as a new QB are a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[Ring 6]

Wasn't precise with my words. When I said "traditionally struggle", I was really focusing on SD in general but Miami on the road specifically (that was the context of the schedule I was referencing). Also, "traditionally" is kind of silly since it really doesn't matter what happened 8-10 years ago, much less in the 70's. "Recently" would have been a better choice of words...something like the last 5 years or so since that would be fairly relevant. Wasn't parsing my words that closely and didn't think my point would be that controversial.

I kind of took it the way you just described (other than I assume you meant we struggled against Miami in general rather than just on the road)
I was basically just pointing out that your opinion may be popular but it is actually not accurate. I didn't expect it to be controversial either.

Kind of like if someone said we get killed by rookie QBs (many think that) and I pointed out our record is spectacular against them.

Though my use of the word "struggle" was exactly what I meant. I'm not sure how you could watch the recent games against SD and not see them as "struggles". While a loss always indicates a struggle, a win doesn't indicate the reverse. By that logic, the Colts could say they haven't struggled with the Pats recently...which would be silly.

I think there is a difference between struggling to win and stuggling against a particular team. Last year we struggled to pull out wins in some games but didn't struggle to win games.

The Fins in Miami is more of a stretch since the Pats have had a few very productive games there. But in watching the games, I have always got the feeling that the Pats have had a much harder time winning in Miami than the talent difference would indicate. Even losing games that they clearly should not have. That seems like a "struggle" to me but to each his own.

Regardless, my point was that even beyond the "Any Given Sunday" argument, the Fins (in Miami) and Bolts seem to pose a greater challenge for the Pats than you might normally think.