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Immediate impact pass rush specialist?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by kurtinelson, Jan 23, 2011.

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  1. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    Every year we grapple with finding the elusive prototypical 3/4 OLB for BB's system. One who can play with a hand down and rush the QB, set the edge, and drop into coverage. This type of player takes time to develop in the system. However, we also know that BB is not afraid to have role players on the roster. Case in point is TBC. Due to his skill set, his one job is to rush the QB. TBC did not have a good year in 2010/2011 IMO.

    In your opinion, is there a player in this draft who could replace TBC and give us an immediate impact as an outside pass rush specialist? A player who may not develop into a prototypical BB 3/4 OLB, but who can pin his ears back and simply rush the QB? If so, who would you draft and how high of a pick would you be willing to use?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  2. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    And the other question is, "Do we need to spend a draft pick at all to acquire a pass rush specialist?" By that, I mean a guy who wouldn't necessarily have a lot of versatility to begin with and might not ever develop any.

    McGinest was a 1st rounder, but he was already on the roster when BB arrived.
    Vrabel was, IIRC, a free agent
    Colvin was a free agent
    TBC was a 7th rounder (re-signed after he was cut by SF)
    Crable was a 3rd rounder
    Thomas was a free agent
    Burgess cost us a 3rd and a 5th
    Eric Moore was a free agent

    Seems to me that, aside from McGinest, we've gotten more production out of guys who didn't cost us anything in the draft.
     
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    It's a good sign that Belichick went after Thomas and Colvin. it means he sees some value in FA pass rushers coming in.
     
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    I'd like to get Tamba Hali if we're going the free agent route. This is assuming that Ngata will get locked up by the Ravens.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  5. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I think we have something in Ninkovich and Cunningham. Cunningham has a strong start and sort of petered out, and Ninkovich really showed us something down the home stretch and was the only guy to even get close to Sanchez. Obviously, neither of them is Julius Peppers or Willie Mac, but they're about as good as we've had in recent memory.

    The problem with the pass rush is that Vince can't do it alone in the trenches. If we can land a decent big ugly in the draft we could be in business.
     
  6. Homeland Defense

    Homeland Defense Rookie

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    I think the argument that certain guys can't play in this system is overrated. I think talented guys like Clay Mathews and Peppers can play in any system.
     
  7. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Peppers absolutely. He's a freak. Matthews, on the other hand, has strengths (speed and burst) that aren't especially needed in the scheme and weaknesses (bulk, ability to set the edge, pass-rush moves other than speed move) that are almost required in the scheme. When Gronk can take Matthews out of a play by himself, then that's a sign that Matthews wouldn't fit at OLB in our scheme.
     
  8. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ninkovich is terrible. Always will be.
     
  9. PowerRunRevival

    PowerRunRevival On the Game Day Roster

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    I think Cunningham will be sacking people from that position for years to come. He needs to get stronger as evidenced by him often getting to the qb but rarely coming up with the sack. As he gets stronger and more used to the role those qb pressures will turn into qb sacks and he will set the edge more effectively.

    I think we need one more good all around outside backer to make this defense elite for years to come. To me that guy is Kerrigan from Purdue. He reminds me of Vrable in that he isn't an elite athlete but is intelligent and has a motor that never stops.
     
  10. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would rather draft a more explosive athlete such as Houston from Georgia and teach him up on playing the run. Worst case scenario, he is a demon in sub packages (i.e., more than 50% of snaps) and Ninko plays in the base.
     
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Here's the problem with that thinking. Tackling is about courage and attitude. And neither one of those adjectives currently describes Houston. Now it is true that the defense was new at Georgia and he may have been asked to play a passive way, but unless that is the case....

    Why spend a 1st or high second on a guy that won't hold up at the POA and can't set a hard edge?
     
  12. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And Belichick can again wait until this awesome top 5 talent stud slips to us. Or he can consider those less than perfect.

    The question is indeed whether a situational pass rusher is worth a top 40 pick. OBVIOUSLY, "an all-around awesome impact player" is worth TWO of our first three picks.

    The other thread was started before the season ended.

    We have had a WHOLE WEEK to relect. We were the worst in the league on defending 3rd down. Belichick has NEVER seen such poor production on 3rd down.

    When Belichick relects on this over the next 3 months, he will find the answer. He's the best. Personally, I think that he will conclude that there is no Seymour, McGinest or Vrabel out there. He has waited and waited. Perhaps another strategy is called for. There is no question of analysis. We do need to improve on our 3rd down production,
    ====

    Third down not the only priority of the offseason, but the others are relatively straighforward,
    A) We must maintain the quality of our OT.
    B) We must add a couple of running backs.
    C) We need to have a plan at wide receiver. Consider our situation if Branch were out for a few games. We need downfield help.
    D) We need to develop another safety. It take a year, We have only Chung and Brown signed for 2012.
    ===========

    As I say, these three are straigtforward. Solving the situation on 3rd down is not.

     
  14. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Ninkovich, in is first year fulltime at OLB in BB's 3-4, performed about the same as Vrabel did in HIS first year fulltime in BB's 3-4.

    So, y'know, horsepuckey.
     
  15. PatriotSpy

    PatriotSpy Practice Squad Player

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    Bruce Carter, north carolina.

    Pros:

    Bruce Carter is yet another top defensive prospect from the University of North Carolina. He is an explosive athlete that uses a disciplined approach to the game of football. He has decent size but good speed. He uses his speed and athleticism to create pressure in the offensive backfield. He covers a ton of ground and is threat to make a play form anywhere on the field, which is evident by the 6 blocked kicks he last season. He would fit nicely as an outside linebacker in the 3-4 defensive scheme because he has the ability to get to the quarterback on a blitz but also is sound when dropping back into coverage. Carter is a hard working individual and gains praise from his teammates about being a tremendous leader.

    Cons:

    At 225lbs there are some concerns about Carter’s ability to play the run in the NFL. While he has good strength he can sometimes find himself overpowered by bigger offensive linemen. We mentioned that he is disciplined but he can also be a little slow to diagnose plays and react. He can get away with this on the college level but will be out position in the pros.

    Thoughts:

    Carter ranks #16 on our 2011 NFL Big Board. He has a ton of physical ability that will allow him to overcome some size concerns. He is going to be the target of a 3-4 defensive team looking for a linebacker that could both rush the quarterback but also drop back into coverage.

    2011 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Bruce Carter, UNC NFL Mocks | Covering the 2011 NFL Draft & Your #1 NFL Mock Draft Database


    Bruce Carter - 2011 NFL Draft Prospect Bruce Carter
     
  16. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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  17. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm sorry. You lost me at 225 lbs. :eek:
    In a 4-3 system at OLB, he could have a legitimate chance, but in the Pats system, Carter would be a special teamer at best.
    Now if he's fast enough to play Free Safety, then I might be interested.

     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  18. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  19. PatriotSpy

    PatriotSpy Practice Squad Player

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    good point vcj. i saw vid of that guy and wasn't very impressed at all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The question is there an edge rusher who is explosive off the edge with more than one move and capable of growing into the run and coverage roles ... who might fall out of the Top 10?

    In the NFL Draft Scout Top 64 players there are two-three who might fit that description:

    Ryan Kerrigan
    Jabaal Sheard
    Allen Bailey

    All of whom have questions about their ability to play in space.
     
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