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Imagine If We Didn't Live In A Free Country!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by shirtsleeve, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Nah, none of that could ever, or would ever happen. Not here.

    I love his show. I find myself watching is show more than anyone else's. Hopefully more and more people will start paying attention to the points he makes, and the principles he constantly talks about.
  3. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Yup. Those principals are those of the Constitution, without party affiliation (unlike the parent network...) or partisanship. He, as I, can not much distinguish between the two any longer. He calls both the Big Government Party.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope he's ready, as soon as he starts catching on and really noticed The Left Wing Democrat Media and all of The Loon Community will do their best to destroy him, if he gets real hot then they will go after his family, he's a pretty smart guy so I imagine he can handle the dirty bastards.

    He is one of the best Common Sense Americans on TV.
  5. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Just so you understand Harry, he goes at the "right wing-nuts" as hard as he goes at the "leftie loonies".
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know he does but that makes no difference to the liberals if he hits a nerve, they can't stand anybody that dares to disagree with them, they are the Way And The Truth all others are dead wrong and should be destroyed.

    The dictators that most liberals admire would never allow The Judge to speak to the people.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually the judge is a conservative libertarian, you need to learn to differentiate between Republican and conservative.
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    What is a "conservative libertarian"?

    Conservatives are usually pretty different from libertarians.

    Also, I'm pretty sure shirtsleeve is aware of Napolitano's stance, given that he referred to his principles as "...without party affiliation (unlike the parent network...) or partisanship. He, as I, can not much distinguish between the two any longer. He calls both the Big Government Party."
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A person who holds libertarian limited government pro free enterprise viewsbut without the isolationist, pro abortion & legal drug views of a pure libertarian, like R Paul for example.
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Isn't that basically a conservative?
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People confuse republican with conservative also a libertarian will be more aggressively free market than conservative, less protectionist in terms of trade policy for example.

    If you check for example Heritage Foundation, CATO and Von Mises institutes you will see wide areas of agreement but areas where the approaches are different.
  12. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Excuse the absenses please. Its hit and miss with me, due to the nature of my job.

    The Judge agrees with R Paul concerning foreign policy. I've heard him support California's legalized marijuana issue on more than one occasion. I do not know his stance on abortion. The Judge is also backing R Paul as the most viable candidate for POTUS in 2012.

    Thank you for illustrating the difference between a conservative and a Libertarian though.

    Oh and to clarify, there is also a difference between isolationism and non-interference as a foreign policy.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    The only reason I'm asking about your view is there are pretty vast differences b/t conservatives and libertarians, so the label "conservative libertarian" is a bit of a contradiction in terms.

    I don't know what his stance is on most issues, though when I've seen his show he seemed basically libertarian. His show would be good for people to watch if they haven't really been exposed to libertarian ideas much -- and that goes for liberals or conservatives. I didn't actually find it all that insightful, though, despite agreeing with a lot of what he says -- Reason magazine, otoh, offers more insightful and provocative points of view -- but Fox probably wouldn't care for the libertarian stances that aren't at all conservative.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The same Ron Paul who decried the killing of al-Awlaki???

    By your standards I could be called Republican, because I believe that the Department of Education should be eliminated.

    In reality, Paul is a conservative.. not a true libertarian. A libertarian believes the government has no role in deciding what a woman can do with her body, in gay marriage, open borders and favors a very small military who only responds when attacked.. in case you forgot what the libertarians stand for, here is a refresher:

    Platform | Libertarian Party
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    How Ron Paul or any other American can decry the killing of al-Awlaki is beyond me. An American-born traitor terrorist is the kind of killing Americans WANT us to be successful with.

    Man, I was joyful when I learned his body was blown to bits...it was a Brady to Moss 80 yard bomb times 10!

    Ron Paul is just plain out of touch on this one.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is so much to disagree with his simplistic comments, I don't know where to begin. He seems to start with the fantasy that prior to Roosevelt (I suppose that's what he's talking about), our nation was a wonderful place.

    Well the reality is that it's the American people who fought and even died for protections that the government would not provide. Starting the 1910s, when workers went on strike in the South they were shot by National Guardsman or private militias. Labor unions fought against 72 hour work weeks, even for young children, and working conditions that were squalid and dangerous. As time went on, other groups demanded more government protection. WWI veterans marched on DC to demand their benefits. Hoover, actually ordered out the army with tanks to stop them, and they did not win their rights until Roosevelt's term. The working poor demanded a minimum wage. Later on, women demanded equal pay. Blacks and gays demanded equal rights, and fought for that.

    And many Americans demanded the expansion of government to address social ills, when the cost of caring for an elderly parent got prohibitive, protect them from terrorism and crime, provide them with electricity and other services even in rural areas (where there's no profit in building an infrastructure), ensure clean safe drinking water, provide affordable education, and help them get healthcare so they don't have to die unnecessarily.

    It's a ridiculous myth that our "big government" was formed by a group of politicians, as libertarians seem to say. It's true, it was not completely formed by the white privileged class; it was expanded on by working people and minorities to a great degree. It has expanded because the states have consistently failed in protecting the rights of working people, of the disabled, of gays, of blacks, of women, of Latinos, of children, and so on.

    Does that mean government is perfect? Of course not, but I think it's retarded the argument that the problem with government is that it's simply too big. None of the proposals to cut government drastically reduce it in terms of funding. What libertarians seem to want to cut is safety at airports, regulations that ensure our products our safe, grants to help poor kids go to college, laws that make our water and air clean, and of course laws civil rights by allowing businesses to discriminate based on race, etc.

    When a libertarian explains how s/he will implement a dramatic reduction in government without causing untold misery to those who, right or wrong, at this moment depend on government to feed their kids or get their chemo, I will start to believe this is anything but simplistic political nonsense. When some libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to prevent a return to the pollution that existed prior to the EPA and prevent the bigotry that existed prior to civil rights, I'll listen. When a libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to prevent a downward wage spiral trapping the poor into $3/hr jobs or forcing adults to compete with kids for nonskilled jobs, I will listen. When a libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to prevent a government that is dominated by the military (since everything else will be cut) from becoming dangerous, I will listen. When a libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to prevent the massive corruption that exists in state government (which is not nearly as scrutinized as federal government), I will listen. When a libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to address the social ills that arose the last time we were libertarian (in the 1900s period) I will listen. When a libertarian comes along and tells me how he's going to stop people from rising up, as they have done before, and demanding the government ensure equal rights and nondiscrimination, I will listen.

    But, until them I will continue to see libertarianism as merely a puppet of plutocracy.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    He may not be a true libertarian, but he's probably closer to libertarian than he is to being a typical conservative. And even if he isn't, his views are different enough from most conservatives that the distinction is important, imo
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can say that you agree with a couple of principles and say you are part of a political party, imo you need to accept more the whole agenda, than just a couple of points..

    He agrees with a limited government, but after that he does not seem to agree with much else that the libertarians propose.. OTOH most of us agree with limitiing government, does that make us libertarians.

    I am probably more in agreement with the libertarian party than he is...
  19. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I don't think most people do agree with limiting government.

    I don't know whether Paul more closely fits with libertarians or republicans, but it sounds to me like he's closer to libertarians. You may be right, I'm just going off sound bites, admittedly, but it's the impression I have.

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