Imagine if it were the Pats Exploiting this Loophole...

[bbobbo]

Didn't Bethel Johnson do this once here, as well?

We were first to do this a long time ago. I am going to look for it. It believe it was during 2004 season by Brown.
You know what, I think it was in the Super Bowl vs the Panthers. Checking game out now.

i checked all of the games in the 2003-2005 seasons, which includes bethel johnson's entire time with the patriots. didn't see any occurrences of that.

kasay kicked the ball out of bounds during super bowl XXXVIII which gave the patriots a short field to win the game. there was no touching of the ball by a patriots player, though.

John Kasay's kickoff blunder in Super Bowl XXXVIII

 

[brdmaverick]

As others have mentioned. The Patriots have definitely done this.

I don't recall this. I'm not saying it didn't take place but it would be helfpul if someone could confirm a time when the Pats actually did this.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

the KO return would be virtually eliminated because teams would try to kick the ball so it goes out of bounds right before the goal line (KO version of a coffin corner punt). average starting positions for the offense following KO would probably be around 10-yard line or less.

By "deleting the rule" I meant only the portion that says the kick is deemed as out-of-bounds if it is downed (touched?) by someone who went out-of-bounds voluntarily. Kicking the ball directly out-of-bounds would still be a penalty.

 

[sambam94]

That "stupid NFL rule" saved a critical game for NE back in 2001 when the unconscious Patten, with his head OOB, had his fumbled ball touch his in-bounds feet right before BUF scooped it up.

And that "stupid NFL rule" is pretty much the rule in all sports that have OOB. Any object touching OOB becomes OOB in its entirety and "conducts" the OOB-ness to whatever the object touches.

right...it's still stupid..ball in bounds, player out of bounds touches ball, kicking team penalized?..beyond stupid actually.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Eh, it's a known issue and the rule hasn't been changed, so I've got no problem with it. Yeah, it's a stupid rule that probably *should* be changed, but until that happens kickers have to realize that it's in play if they kick too near the sidelines.

Maybe the Pats should take advantage of it. That's probably the most surefire way to ensure that Goodell becomes infuriated and changes the rule within a day.

 

[fourhour]

He lost control prior to crossing the pylons.

Thank you.

Obviously not, since if it had it'd have been a TD.

The story, I think it was a link in the Jets Suck thread, that I read said it was a TD and after review was ruled a fumble out of bounds. I didn't see it so I assumed it was a TD, hence my question. Thanks just the same though.

 

[RDS11]

I don't recall this. I'm not saying it didn't take place but it would be helfpul if someone could confirm a time when the Pats actually did this.

I remember Dave Meggett doing it while playing for the Pats, but I don't recall which game specifically. I would have to look at my old VHS tapes...

 

[bbobbo]

By "deleting the rule" I meant only the portion that says the kick is deemed as out-of-bounds if it is downed (touched?) by someone who went out-of-bounds voluntarily. Kicking the ball directly out-of-bounds would still be a penalty.

got it.

to eliminate the loophole, you'd actually have to create a new rule making an exception for kickoffs, since the existing rule covers the general case (a ball touching a player out of bounds is considered out of bounds). since the existing rulebook is already a monstrosity and since this is such a rare situation, i'd say leave it as is.

 

[IllegalContact]

Everyone expresses what they think.........as do I......

it appears you're the one putting way too much thought into things

 

[jboston19]

i checked all of the games in the 2003-2005 seasons, which includes bethel johnson's entire time with the patriots. didn't see any occurrences of that.

kasay kicked the ball out of bounds during super bowl XXXVIII which gave the patriots a short field to win the game. there was no touching of the ball by a patriots player, though.

John Kasay's kickoff blunder in Super Bowl XXXVIII

I can't find anything on it, either, actually. Which is strange because I knew this rule and thought it was because of Bethel. Guess not?

I did find an old patriots mailbag from 2003 with some gems about BB not being able to coach or teach discipline, Brady being a one year wonder, and why they weren't playing the skilled rookie Bethel Johnson over the old tired David Patten. Lol.

 

[fan345]

It's definitely not what the rules intended, but any fix I can think of would just introduce new potential corners to exploit.

In the end, every rule has its edge cases, and this one by its nature won't come up too often. I don't mind there being opportunities for teams and players with great situational awareness to take advantage of.

Easy fix, just say it doesn't apply to kickoffs (which are a much different situation than play from line of scrimmage). I have no doubt that this is a loop hole, when the rule was made no one considered the ramifications for kick offs. I expect this to happen more often this year due to teams doing high short kick offs because of the 25 yard touch back. In which case, it might be addressed. However, you never know what the rules committee will do. There was also the fumble through the end zone which is kind of dumb. And they never seem to address everyone's favorite penalty the PI. It's ridiculous that year after year, the coaches have to guess what is and what is not a PI. This year, the tendency seems to be to not call it (corner holding is called as often, but not PI). Also, seems to be a tendency to have fewer measurements this year (although did see some in the Jets game which was refreshing).

 

[fan345]

the KO return would be virtually eliminated because teams would try to kick the ball so it goes out of bounds right before the goal line (KO version of a coffin corner punt). average starting positions for the offense following KO would probably be around 10-yard line or less.

If the ball itself goes out of bounds would still be a penalty. Only if deemed out of bounds because the player who touches it is out of bounds would be eliminated.

 

[brdmaverick]

I can't find anything on it, either, actually. Which is strange because I knew this rule and thought it was because of Bethel. Guess not?

I did find an old patriots mailbag from 2003 with some gems about BB not being able to coach or teach discipline, Brady being a one year wonder, and why they weren't playing the skilled rookie Bethel Johnson over the old tired David Patten. Lol.

"David Patten will NOT make this team" was a classic thread

I don't want to digress so I'll just say that the Patriots have often shown situational awareness, but I think this is one of the ones they have not exploited YET. As someone previously noted, they get too few kickoffs for it to be worthwhile

 

[pwes]

When/If we do use it in the playoffs to secure a victory everyone is going to flip their **** and act like they have never seen it before just like the tuck rule and the eligible receiver formation used against the Ravens

 

[lurker1965]

John Harbaugh's head would explode if we did it against him.

I'd like to put that to the test .

No problem. The explosion and any collateral damage would be small.

I'll add my name to the list of commenters who want this used against the Ravens.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

It only becomes a problem when a perennial winner does it, and somebody cries about it. You silly people

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I have friends, (Yes real people), who are division rivals. When they ask "How the hell do the Pats keep winning, no matter what? I just say "Shhhh, .....Just take a little air out of the ball"

 

[Danger Zone]

Everyone expresses what they think.........as do I......

it appears you're the one putting way too much thought into things

Your avatar has earned you much much much too much grace from me.

Ignored you are.

 

[neuronet]

Wow if that was the Patriots it is 100% certain it would have been described as cheating. But **** it we should do it screw the people.

 

[IllegalContact]

Your avatar has earned you much much much too much grace from me.

Ignored you are.

Awesome......don't let the door hit you on the way out