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I'm tired of this Colts are loaded with talent myth


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are they full of all pro players no but if manning was the QB they would have 7 wins right now and would be fighting the pats for the #2 seed
 
are they full of all pro players no but if manning was the QB they would have 7 wins right now and would be fighting the pats for the #2 seed

The Colts would not be 7-4 right now.
 
are they full of all pro players no but if manning was the QB they would have 7 wins right now and would be fighting the pats for the #2 seed

They would be more likely to be fighting with the Titans for the #2 spot in the AFC South. They had an easier schedule last year and they only had six wins after 11 games. It is doubtful they would have one more win after 11 games with a harder schedule.

They only got to ten wins last year because they won their last four games vs. Tennessee (twice), Jacksonville, and Oakland. Not one of those teams were above .500. They only beat two teams with winning records last year (Giants and Chiefs)
 
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BTW, the Colts were 2-3 against teams with winning records last year. That shows you first that they had an easy schedule and that they only got to 10 wins because they didn't face a lot of good teams. In contrast, The Colts have already faced 6 teams with winning records and still have four more left on their schedule.

So in 2010 they faced 5 teams with winning records. This year they could face up to ten depending on how the schedule pans out. They were below .500 last year against winning teams. So it isn't too much of a stretch to say they would be below .500 this year with Manning with their schedule and their talent may not be nearly as good as people think.
 
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No chance Peyton is the only reason why this team in 0-11. I think they packed it in soon as they heard he was going to be gone for the season. That and those idiots had the worst back up QB in NFL history.
 
No, they wouldn't. First off Bill would not have ever assembled that kind of top heavy depthless squad. Like he noted today, he has a program and a system built around a strong middle class to be capable of overcoming adversity. Polian had Manning and a fast cheap defense capable of winning only when the planets perfectly were aligned...and they only managed to get the alignment right once... The year after they lucked out in the SB draw Polian fielded a team with 19 players on his 53 man roster who had NEVER TAKEN A SNAP IN THE NFL... Because he had to. Manning and a handful of talent on offense and defense were taking up most of his cap...and he's snakebit and scared to death of FA and he's lost his fastball as a drafter making huge and costly mistakes in the early rounds.

Our defense has Antuan Molden, Sterling Moore, Tracy White, Ihedigbo, and whoever else BB has thrown out there. For argument's sake, lets assume that the Indy no-name guys also take the coaching that our no-name guys are taking. You combine that with some of Indy's great/good players, I think they'd have a competitive squad. BB would make sure these guys were prepared, knew their roles and would not ask them to do more than they could. Indy's still got enough good talent to carry them, with good coaching, to a good amount of wins. That division, outside of Houston, is pretty down this season. Plus their non-division games have included Cleveland, KC, and Carolina.

They played Pitt in week 3, before Indy completely tanked their season, and that game was more competitive than our game against Pitt. It wasn't until Painter was asked to do more than what he should was when Pitt took advantage of him and took the lead for good. It was their great/good players, Freeney, Mathis, Garcon, Addai, that kept that game close and competitive. But also, those guys got a lot of support from their no-name players that allowed those guys to excel.

We are witnessing what good coaching can do to a team in San Fran and what happens when you put players in the best position to succeed in Denver. Good things can happen more often than not.

You see what Denver is doing, hell, you see what Rex Ryan is doing up there with that QB, both teams in playoff contention. I don't see why BB wouldn't be able to do that in Indy with that roster.
 
No chance Peyton is the only reason why this team in 0-11. I think they packed it in soon as they heard he was going to be gone for the season. That and those idiots had the worst back up QB in NFL history.

I disagree with the thought that there should "be an investigation" and that they threw games etc.

I agree with your thought that they were not properly prepared in the backup QB role, and that they went out and chose a very poor choice in Collins.

They have been close in some games this yr. They should be having a very poor season at 3-8 or something like that, but some of the 0-11 problem is bad luck too.

They seem to have given up on some level, and I think that happened very quickly. I do not agree with any kind of thinking that they are one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL, even despite their 0-11 record.

We have witnessed some ridiculously untalented teams over the yrs, and most of those teams hovered around the 2 and 3 win mark. It is pure coincidence in my opinion, that the Colts are not one of those teams.

In other words, yes they suck; but no they don't suck on the level that some are making it out to be.
 
I am curious to see how a 43 DLine of Carter, Wilfork, Daedrick/Love, and Anderson will do against the Colt's line with a QB who will be making his first start in a few years.

He'll probably be slow on the delivery and unsure of his protections, being rusty and never very competent to begin with should be a fun combination for us.

I am surprised that after 11 games they've only allowed 23 sacks.

avg number of sacks for peyton over his 13 year career is less than 18 a year

avg number of sacks per year since the colts became elite (last 8 manning years) = less than 16 a year


that's really quite quite insane

brady's avg number of sacks per year is 24 in his 11 year career counting this season but not counting his injury season

brady takes more sacks but hasn't been as careless with the football

10.27 ints per year for brady (counting this season but not counting his injury season) and 15.23 ints per year for peyton....
 
also brady has twice as many fumbles in his career as peyton, which also reflects peyton getting rid of the ball faster


but the 33 lost fumbles by brady to peyton's 17 lost fumbles, is more than made up for by brady's 5 less int per year avg
 
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sadly the colts qb position has 8 tds and 10 ints this year, which is still less ints than philip rivers :mad:
 
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sadly the colts qb position has 8 tds and 10 ints this year, which is still less ints than philip rivers :mad:

Just a bad yr for Rivers. I think there's optimism for next yr, and just about every yr after that, especially in the AFC West.
 
The fact that Donald Brown is the best back on the Colts speaks volumes to why Addai is overrated. Before this year, he has a career average of under 4.0 YPC and only got it up to 4.0 because he is running alot this year with the Colts so far behind that teams don't care about him. He has 1,134 yards and 8 TDs for his career. BJGE had 1,008 yards and 12 TDs last year alone. Brown sucks.

Joseph Addai is 50th in rushing yards this year. He is nowhere close to a top 20 RB. Even last year with Manning, he was 42nd in rushing yards. He is a receiving back and that is it. He is totally miscast as a lead back. He sucks at that.

Mathis is nowhere near a HOF. He might get into the Colts' Ring of Honor, but the only way he is getting into Canton is if he buys a ticket.

Tame is a product of Manning. The guy has 102 yards this year and 75 of them came against the Jags. And about half of the yards in that game came on a 29 yard pass.

Brackett right now is Bruschi circa 2007. A bit broken down and no where near as good as he was. He has been on IR most of this year and missed 10 games the previous three years.

With a healthy Manning, this team is .500 maybe 5-6. With an ok QB, this team is 2-9. The team last year with a far eaiser schedule were 10-6 with Manning having a pretty good year. This year, Manning wouldn't be able to repeat that.

Brown has barely even touched the ball. If you think Addai is overrated you obviously don't pay much attention to Colt football not to mention Addai is arguably one of the BEST blocking RB in the league...No runningback would flourish on the Colts they are not built for that. Not a single RB the Pats have would be considered above average if even average on the colts.

Yes Tamma is a product of Manning but I would not look at his stats this year to judge him...he could also be a product of a decent qb if they had one...that is like saying Collie isn't good when he is probably the 2nd best slot reciever in the league definetly top 5 slot reciever..check last year I think Manning had a perfect passer ratings when targeting him or close to it. Yes it is partly Manning but that is absolutely insane almost perfect.

Mathis has almost identical stats to Freeney just less sacks I believe. He is a FF MACHINE.

Judging there talent is weird though only because I look at it as if Brady got to play with them. Every offense player I mentioned would be AMAZING with Brady as they are with Manning.

They have better recievers, rb's, not tight ends only because the patriots TE's are amazing...but they have 2 above average pass catching tight ends. O-line to the media is far worse then the Patriot's...me im not buying it.. proof...with Brady they all make probowl and are considered the best in the league...with Cassell they were dead last. Mostly because teams wouldn't blitz Brady. As for the defense they have 2 D-LINEMAN as talented as Wilfork(Freeney even better) on their d-line. LB's Patriots have more talent NOW. Patriots also get the edge with CB's because of Mccourty but Powers is extremely talented. Safeties Bethea>Chung and other suck on both teams.

Colts have SO MUCH talent and I dont think Caldwell is a bad coach but there team simply can not win without a SOLID QB.. it's what theyre built for. Their backups qb's being absolutely horrible says something about Manning. He's still amazing but no way anyone playing behind Manning should be this bad.

My honest opinion is that Manning career may be over and he's definetly near the end atleast..they know it and want Luck.....which I can't blame them for hopefully Manning does come back.

As for 2-9 with an average QB..NO...they have been in I think 5 or 6 1 score games they win most of those and who knows what else with a Cassell back there
 
Colts have SO MUCH talent and I dont think Caldwell is a bad coach but there team simply can not win without a SOLID QB.. it's what theyre built for. Their backups qb's being absolutely horrible says something about Manning. He's still amazing but no way anyone playing behind Manning should be this bad.

I disagree with you there. Caldwell is a horrible coach. How he can't squeeze out at least 1 win from that team is proof enough. The Lions 0-16 season team had no talent on that team. This team has talent, the AFC is down as a whole with lots of mediocre team, yet they can't win a game. It's downright pathetic. They don't play hard for that coach and no one apparently seems to respect him from their lack of effort.
 
Brown has barely even touched the ball. If you think Addai is overrated you obviously don't pay much attention to Colt football not to mention Addai is arguably one of the BEST blocking RB in the league...No runningback would flourish on theColts they are not built for that. Not a single RB the Pats have would be considered above average if even average on thecolts.

Yes Tamma is a product of Manning but I would not look at his stats this year to judge him...he could also be a product of a decent qb if they had one...that is like saying Collie isn't good when he is probably the 2nd best slot reciever in the league definetly top 5 slot reciever..check last year I think Manning had a perfect passer ratings when targeting him or close to it. Yes it is partly Manning but that is absolutely insane almost perfect.

Mathis has almost identical stats to Freeney just less sacks I believe. He is a FF MACHINE.

Judging there talent is weird though only because I look at it as if Brady got to play with them. Every offense player I mentioned would be AMAZING with Brady as they are with Manning.

They have better recievers, rb's, not tight ends only because the patriots TE's are amazing...but they have 2 above average pass catching tight ends. O-line to the media is far worse then the Patriot's...me im not buying it.. proof...with Brady they all make probowl and are considered the best in the league...with Cassell they were dead last. Mostly because teams wouldn't blitz Brady. As for the defense they have 2 D-LINEMAN as talented as Wilfork(Freeney even better) on their d-line. LB's Patriots have more talent NOW. Patriots also get the edge with CB's because of Mccourty but Powers is extremely talented. Safeties Bethea>Chung and other suck on both teams.

Colts have SO MUCH talent and I dont think Caldwell is a bad coach but there team simply can not win without a SOLID QB.. it's what theyre built for. Their backups qb's being absolutely horrible says something about Manning. He's still amazing but no way anyone playing behind Manning should be this bad.

My honest opinion is that Manning career may be over and he's definetly near the end atleast..they know it and want Luck.....which I can't blame them for hopefully Manning does come back. As for 2-9 with an average QB..NO...they have been in I think 5 or 6 1 score games they win most of those and who knows what else with a Cassell back there

Brown has barely even touched the ball because three years in considering his draft position he's been close to a bust. Addai has been battling injuries for the last year and the Colts were so happy with him they didn't extend him and only re-signed him on the cheap because no one else was interested and they had no alternative. Edge was an elite RB who flourished in his prime on the Colts. Addai did well for a brief time. But he hasn't maintained well or been durable.

Tamme was a product of Manning compensating for Clark's extended absence. Essentially he's just a guy Manning gerryrigged out of necessity to compete. Garcon was a flash in the pan and has been woefully inconsistent and disappointing since. Collie is a concussion machine. Wayne and Harrison were elite receivers but Reggie is 33 and entering the back end of his career and he knows he's not getting the Harrison treatment from Polian. I'm not convinced any of them could play in this totally dissimilar offense let alone impact it. Much like Branch couldn't anywhere else.

They don't have better receivers, running backs, tight ends and their OL is a shambles with their last 2 selections underwhelming this season which is becoming par for the course in Indy. Their offense is at best marginally talented absent Manning and Wayne and Clark. Their defense is devoid of talented beyond Freeney, Mathis and Bethea. Their coaching staff is thoroughly overmatched in the absence of Dungy followed closely by the headscratching engineered departures of Moore, Mudd.

In 2010 I watched the Colts win 10 games only because of dumb luck including a handful of mismanaged teams mindnumbingly gifting them wins by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The handwriting was on the wall. If you overpay for talent at the top of your roster and are unable to build depth through the middle or lack the coaching expertise to develop marginal talent from the bottom up you better have a GOAT QB in his prime or you're screwed.

Top heavy rosters are never loaded with talent, just smattered with enough of it to carry the rest under optimum conditions. They have busted in the draft for the last 4-5 years and a team that has an almost pathalogical aversion to FA (aside from occasionally overvaluing it's own only to increasingly watching them fizzle) that is a sub-optimum recipe for disaster - like the one that struck this season. The Colts have always had a slim margin for error when Manning is under center - in part because of the cost in cash and cap and draft capital of maintaining him there. They have zero margin absent him. Coaching and savvy drafting and reliance on Manning used to be sufficient to not only mask the warts but manufacture a little cushion. But they haven't had two out of three for a couple of seasons now ergo when Manning was lost the jig was up...

Some of us predicted a disaster in the making this season and the potential for one for a long time now. And were mocked by the grass is always greener talent evaluators hereabouts who claimed the Colts were still loaded. Hogwash. They've made our case and their staunchest defenders here are just typically unwilling to acknowledge they were wr..wr..wrong.

If you watched what happened to Cassel since 2008 you would realize that the Cassel's of the NFL (competent starters) can't carry bad or mismanaged teams. Unless they are surrounded with solid talent and excellent coaching they struggle to hold their own - as he has in two of his three seasons as a starter in KC... The biggest difference between the backup QB's and their situation here and in Indy is we have a program or system here that provides them a competitive team and staff to work with including their own development and preparation and then justifiably holds them accountable. Otherwise they and those teamates wouldn't remain on the roster.

Polian acknowledged this week that the Colts are fielding a team that includes players who do not belong on an NFL field. As a result he fired the DC... Problem is the buck stops at the top when you have total control of football ops. If you don't have a staff that can coach 'em up, don't go there. Lack of talent on the field or on the staff are the result of Polian failing to do his job across the board.

I believe (and I think Manning feared which is why he did the cap friendly deal he did) that Polian began to coast after winning that one ring, the thing he's always chased and come up short of. That coupled with the new stadium finally validated him and in his mind it was time to kick back and pass the torch to his kid... Manning wanted to have a competitive shot at at least another ring down the backstretch of his career considering it took 9 of his first 12 career seasons just to get to one... If he can return to the field and they draft Luck anyways he will know that the Polian's have chosen to persue a different agenda. Theoretically setting his own kid up for another 9 year superbowl chase fueled GM career on the shoulder of the most pro ready QB to be available in the draft since...1998.
 
Is this thread based on the presumption that the Colts organization has been trying to WIN since they learned they'd likely lost Manning for the season?

I don't think that's been established and I'd have no problem believing Irsay and Polian would trade a losing season (especially one played without Manning) for the next franchise QB and profits for the next 15 years, assuming they thought highly of the Luck.
 
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Brown has barely even touched the ball. If you think Addai is overrated you obviously don't pay much attention to Colt football not to mention Addai is arguably one of the BEST blocking RB in the league...No runningback would flourish on the Colts they are not built for that. Not a single RB the Pats have would be considered above average if even average on the colts.

Brown barely touches the ball because he sucks. He is a first round pick. It isn't like they haven't given him a shot. He just sucks.

Addai is a third down back. Saying he is one of the best pass blockers only helps enforce that. Ever since he played the Pats in 2007, the guy has lost something and has been a shell of himself.

No RB flourishes on the Colts? I'm sure that will be the opening line in Marshall Faulk's Hall of Fame speech. Edgerrin James might disagree too. Even Joseph Addai was a potential OROY candidate and then fell apart his second year. And you claim I don't watch the Colts too much.

I bet BJGE would do just fine in Indy. He might not be a star, but he would be better than Addai or Brown. Up until 2007, the Colts have always had a dominant running game. They wasted two first round picks to get it back.

Yes Tamma is a product of Manning but I would not look at his stats this year to judge him...he could also be a product of a decent qb if they had one...that is like saying Collie isn't good when he is probably the 2nd best slot reciever in the league definetly top 5 slot reciever..check last year I think Manning had a perfect passer ratings when targeting him or close to it. Yes it is partly Manning but that is absolutely insane almost perfect.

Jacob Tamme is in his fourth year in the NFL and he has had exactly one good year. He had 3 catches for 12 yards in 2008, 3 catches for 35 yards in 2009, and 67 catches for 671 yards last year. Last year is shaping up to be the fluke year, not this year.

I think Collie is too injury prone and inconsistent to be considered the second best slot WR in the league. He is good, but not great. He is a product of Manning.

Mathis has almost identical stats to Freeney just less sacks I believe. He is a FF MACHINE.

Sacks is what get you into the HOF. Mathis isn't going. He is a great DE in the Colts' system, but he clearly will never get into Canton.

Judging there talent is weird though only because I look at it as if Brady got to play with them. Every offense player I mentioned would be AMAZING with Brady as they are with Manning.

They have better recievers, rb's, not tight ends only because the patriots TE's are amazing...but they have 2 above average pass catching tight ends. O-line to the media is far worse then the Patriot's...me im not buying it.. proof...with Brady they all make probowl and are considered the best in the league...with Cassell they were dead last. Mostly because teams wouldn't blitz Brady. As for the defense they have 2 D-LINEMAN as talented as Wilfork(Freeney even better) on their d-line. LB's Patriots have more talent NOW. Patriots also get the edge with CB's because of Mccourty but Powers is extremely talented. Safeties Bethea>Chung and other suck on both teams.

Again, the Colts do not have better RBs. Just because you believe that Donald Brown is a stud pretending to be a first round bust doesn't change the fact he is a bust.

The Colts have three defensive players I would definitely take on this team and I don't think the Pats defense is all that talented. Freeney, Mathis, and Bethea. I still think Angerer is a statistical anomality and the rest of the defense isn't good.

Other than Welker, I would take the Colts' WRs, but that is because the Pats' WR sucks past Branch and he isn't really good enough to be the #1 outside receiver.

Colts have SO MUCH talent and I dont think Caldwell is a bad coach but there team simply can not win without a SOLID QB.. it's what theyre built for. Their backups qb's being absolutely horrible says something about Manning. He's still amazing but no way anyone playing behind Manning should be this bad.

The Colts don't have so much talent. If they did, they wouldn't be 0-11 right now. They are devoid of talent and that is why they fell apart without Manning. Again, their defense and running game sucked WITH MANNING last year. That had nothing to do with Curtis painter.

I disagree with you about Caldwell too. He sucks. A better coach would have gotten at least a couple of wins and the Colts didn't start sucking for Luck for a while.

My honest opinion is that Manning career may be over and he's definetly near the end atleast..they know it and want Luck.....which I can't blame them for hopefully Manning does come back.

The Colts did not go into the season Sucking for Luck. They honestly thought they could be somewhat competitive with Kerry Collins. Polian didn't give Collins $4 million because he wanted to tank the season.

As for 2-9 with an average QB..NO...they have been in I think 5 or 6 1 score games they win most of those and who knows what else with a Cassell back there

The Colts have three games where they lost by 7 points or less. There were two more where they lost by 8 points. One of those (Panthers) were ahead 24-12 until the Colts scored a TD just outside the two minute warning (the Panthers got a field goal at the end of the game). In the other, Cleveland were leading 27-12 and the Colts got a garbage time TD with 2:35 left in the game to make it 27-19. The Colts were far less competitive than you actually are making them. Based on the final scores, the Colts would be 3-8 at best with an average QB.
 
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Is this thread based on the presumption that the Colts organization has been trying to WIN since they learned they'd likely lost Manning for the season?

I don't think that's been established and I'd have no problem believing Irsay and Polian would trade a losing season (especially one played without Manning) for the next franchise QB and profits for the next 15 years, assuming they thought highly of the Luck.

Actually, I am presuming it based on last season as much as this season. It was clear the only reason the Colts got 10 wins last year was because of a cake schedule and Manning bailing out a team with no defense or running game. I felt the Colts were not very talented last year either and would have had a sub .500 record if they had the Pats' 2010 schedule. The Pats might have gone 16-0 with the Colts' schedule last year.
 
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I disagree with you there. Caldwell is a horrible coach. How he can't squeeze out at least 1 win from that team is proof enough. The Lions 0-16 season team had no talent on that team. This team has talent, the AFC is down as a whole with lots of mediocre team, yet they can't win a game. It's downright pathetic. They don't play hard for that coach and no one apparently seems to respect him from their lack of effort.

Agreed, honestly if Caldwell isn't fired after this season the only explanation would be that Polian himself instructed him to let the team quit.
 
All I have heard this week is with this talent on the Colts' roster, they should be at least .500 if they had a decent QB. I look at that team and I think they have no more than 3-4 wins at most.

I still maintain that Peyton Manning's legacy dodged a huge bullet this season with him out because even with a healthy Manning, they weren't going to be better than .500. With Manning last year, they were 10-6 and they had the AFC West to walk over rather than the AFC North this year.

Let's look at the supposive talent:

Defense

Dwight Freeney - Yes, an elite DE
Robert Mathis - A very good DE
Pat Angerer - Gets padded stats because the Colts' defense is on the field most of the game
Gary Brackett - Injury prone and overrated. Hasn't been good since 2007
Antonine Bethea - Very good safety

So they have three of eleven defensive starters that are good.

Offense

Reggie Wayne - Elite WR
Austin Collie - Injury prone and overrated (decent back up, but not a starter)
Pierre Garcon - Very streaky (half of his yards and all of his TDs this year came in two games)
Dallas Clark - A very good TE
Jeff Saturday - Old and overrated
Joseph Addai - Could be a great 3rd down back, totally miscast as a lead back and still living off his reputation of his rookie season
Donald Brown - Total bust who's career stats for yards and TDs are pretty much what BJGE gave the Pats last season
Ryan Diem - Overrated

So they have probably 3-4 players on offense any good

The fact of the matter is if you get past all the names, this is a bad team and their record isn't much worse than the talent they actually had. Manning hid a lot of warts last year with an easy schedule. I think with a significantly tougher schedule this year from last year (their own division is more competitive this year and the AFC North is the best division in football) even Manning couldn't hide the warts this year. This team has been living on a cake division, reputations, and Manning's arm for the last few years. Polian has allowed the talent to get old or leave while not replacing the pieces over the last few years.

Now lets do the same with our lovely Pats.

Brady HOF elite QB
Welker good slot WR benefited from Brady
Gronkowski great young TE, big red zone target
Hernandez young TE that is good but needs improvement
Solid O-line (same with Indy as you ignored)

BJGE, Woody, Price, Slater, Ocho, Branch etc all avg-mediocre

Wilfork great NT
Mayo good player but not elite
Chung good but again not all world status

McCourty, Spikes, Arrington etc are young question marks, a lot of the rest are weak talent that is well coached.

They are as talented as us minus the QB and coach, give them Peyton and a decent coach and they are 8-3. Nice try but talent isn't everything (Philly anyone?) and they can still beat us without Peyton btw.
 
are they full of all pro players no but if manning was the QB they would have 7 wins right now and would be fighting the pats for the #2 seed

I see absolutely no way this would be true.
The drop off all over the team is obvious. They were 10-6 last year, this year they would be lucky to be 4-7 at best.
 
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