I'm Hungry, Mr. Macaroney!

[DaBruinz]

More excuses from da bruinz

Since when did FACTS become excuses?

This claim is always the last one of those who clearly know they've LOST the argument. Because they have no other rebuttal.

 

[DaBruinz]

Please don't offer the yards per carry as substantiation for LM. Most decently qualified RB's in the NFL could do the same in this offense. Why don't we pull up Heath Evan's and Kyle E's rpg while we're at it. If there is anything I can be proud of LM this season for it's the fact that he hasn't fumbled.

There is a saying. "Never ask a question you don't know the answer to." Heath Evans is averaging 3.5 YPC and Kyle Eckel is averaging 2.8 YPC. What does their poor YPC have to do with Maroney's good YPC?

As far as hit style, a couple things. He goes down on initial contact on what seems every time. To me, an effective RB is not a guy that can just hit a hole, because most RB's can do that. It's a guy that can either elude or break initial contact and get that extra yard or two. The difference in a good and bad NFL RB is usually a yard per carry. The difference is a guy that can put you in a second and 5 or 6 situation rather than a second and 8. LM just doesn't show any ability to have a motor to find that extra yard - that's visible and apparent. If he was a big play breaking kind of guy(Barry Sanders), then he might be worth it, but he hasn't shown that. Otherwise, I take a guy like Sammy.

LM runs wide, is an easy target for tackle, can't slip through gaps in between defenders and once grasped, can't push through tackles. Sure he's fast and shifty in the open field, great for screens, but he's not a premier feature back - more of a change the pace kind of guy. Split him with a guy like Sammy, I think he's successful, but make him a primary, I don't - unless he shows something he hasn't yet.

You clearly don't watch the games. Maroney doesn't go down on initial contact and he sure as hell doesn't run wide.

Your "evaluation" of Maroney is seriously lacking. Must be from not watching the games.

 

[DaBruinz]

His excuses? We shall see how Mr maroney does this weekend. Then we can talk more. I will be there , and I will make sure to cheer for him every time he makes a huge play.

Hmm.. Maroney is facing a Steelers team that is 2nd in the league in rushing defense. I wouldn't expect anything different than last week. BTW, funny how I had mentioned Maroney getting between 10-15 carries against the Ravens and he did just that. I expect the same against Pitt.

 

[DaBruinz]

I will say the raven game was somewhat encouraging. He did gain yardage on it seemed about 75% of the plays. you have to admit the Ravens are a tough defense and it was windy conditions so they might not have respected the pass as much, plus they held alot.

Maroney got positive yardage on every single running play against the Ravens. 8 of 13 went for 4 or more yards. But, to certain people, that's not results. That is just an excuse.

if LM can get his 3-4 minimum per carry then that is an extreme positive I think at this point. If they could start utilizing his pass catching skills in the flat like dallas did with emitt then that could be another feature of this offense.

This would help open up the play-action pass even more as well.

I don't think it's the end of the world. if the Pats can get 60-75 yards out of him a game in combination with evans and faulk I think they'll be in good shape.

Don't tell that to Danny88. He thinks that Maroney getting positive yardage on all his carries is just maroney not being good.

 

[SpiderFox53]

As far as hit style, a couple things. He goes down on initial contact on what seems every time. To me, an effective RB is not a guy that can just hit a hole, because most RB's can do that. It's a guy that can either elude or break initial contact and get that extra yard or two. The difference in a good and bad NFL RB is usually a yard per carry. The difference is a guy that can put you in a second and 5 or 6 situation rather than a second and 8. LM just doesn't show any ability to have a motor to find that extra yard - that's visible and apparent. If he was a big play breaking kind of guy(Barry Sanders), then he might be worth it, but he hasn't shown that. Otherwise, I take a guy like Sammy.

You need to go back and watch the Ravens game again. There were several times that LM pushed the pile for additional yardage. He may not do it every time, but he also doesn't go down from initial contact every time either.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Maroney got positive yardage on every single running play against the Ravens. 8 of 13 went for 4 or more yards. But, to certain people, that's not results. That is just an excuse.QUOTE]

I'd agree on the positive yardage thing but there is also a difference between a 2 yard gain the majority of the time and a 3-4 yard gain.

Maroney seemed to be more in the 3-4 range with the raven game. What we can't afford to see is the 1-2 yard gain on first down. He need to be closer to his average.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Some very good points made here. Maroney just doesn't seem to get you that extra yard that a good RB would. He also frequently goes down on initial contact. Maybe he's just better suited to be a #2, change of pace RB.

As for Eckel and Neal, they are very limited backs, but I think most of us can be honest enough to admit that they are scrubs. The sad thing is that these guys or Brady are preferable running options to Maroney in short yardage situations.

Please don't offer the yards per carry as substantiation for LM. Most decently qualified RB's in the NFL could do the same in this offense. Why don't we pull up Heath Evan's and Kyle E's rpg while we're at it. If there is anything I can be proud of LM this season for it's the fact that he hasn't fumbled.

As far as hit style, a couple things. He goes down on initial contact on what seems every time. To me, an effective RB is not a guy that can just hit a hole, because most RB's can do that. It's a guy that can either elude or break initial contact and get that extra yard or two. The difference in a good and bad NFL RB is usually a yard per carry. The difference is a guy that can put you in a second and 5 or 6 situation rather than a second and 8. LM just doesn't show any ability to have a motor to find that extra yard - that's visible and apparent. If he was a big play breaking kind of guy(Barry Sanders), then he might be worth it, but he hasn't shown that. Otherwise, I take a guy like Sammy.

LM runs wide, is an easy target for tackle, can't slip through gaps in between defenders and once grasped, can't push through tackles. Sure he's fast and shifty in the open field, great for screens, but he's not a premier feature back - more of a change the pace kind of guy. Split him with a guy like Sammy, I think he's successful, but make him a primary, I don't - unless he shows something he hasn't yet.

 

[Lockdown06]

Some very good points made here. Maroney just doesn't seem to get you that extra yard that a good RB would. He also frequently goes down on initial contact. Maybe he's just better suited to be a #2, change of pace RB.

As for Eckel and Neal, they are very limited backs, but I think most of us can be honest enough to admit that they are scrubs. The sad thing is that these guys or Brady are preferable running options to Maroney in short yardage situations.

umm in short yardage situations, our QB sneak has proven to be effective on just about every defense in the league, not to mention it takes pretty much NO time to develop - thats why Belichick calls it so much.

As for the using evans and eckel in short yardage situations, while Maroney is actually used fairly often short-yardage, evans and eckel are 30 pounds and 25 pounds bigger than maroney respectively - if all you're trying to gain is 1-2 yards straight up the middle why WOULDNT you give the ball to a bigger guy?

just because maroney doesnt get every single touch in every situation we would use a running back, that is not an indictment of his skills.

Chester Taylor and Adrian Peterson split carries. Michael Turner steals snaps from LdT, Brian Leonard subs in for Stephen Jackson in certain situations, kenton keith comes in for Joseph Addai, and marion barber and julius jones share the load.

 

[FrontSeven]

Maroney got positive yardage on every single running play against the Ravens. 8 of 13 went for 4 or more yards. But, to certain people, that's not results. That is just an excuse.

No, I would admit that that was a decent performance.

I would also factor in the notion of Baltimore going with nickel packages most of the game. I mean, if you can't run on a nickel package ........ well ..... you know what I'm saying.

I think that the Pats finally changed it up and took what the Ravens had probably been giving all night long - the run. That is smart football. I'm glad they did it. I'm glad Laurence was part of the equation. But Laurence was not the guy they wanted in there in the red zone.

Why not?

Since when would they yank Corey in red zone? Or since when did they yank Antowain in years past? Why would you yank your feature back unless he cannot get the job done? The job is pounding it in small space. Forget about it - it's not Laurence's thing. If it becomes his thing I'll be very happy. I can't be happy about it right now. Sorry, but I'm a realist not a pipe dreamer. He is not the man in the red zone, and all of his stats don't mean anything in the red zone.

 

[FrontSeven]

Since when did FACTS become excuses?

This claim is always the last one of those who clearly know they've LOST the argument. Because they have no other rebuttal.

There is a rebuttal that a lot of people ignore in favor of looking at the ypc stats: Red zone production.

Here's another rebuttal: Diapers in the locker.

Here's another rebuttal: Laurence standing around on the sideline in the Bills game, and then disagreeing with his coach over the cause of it.

He is used sparingly. He gets 10-15 touches maximum, and you know that those touches are designed for the location of the field, and hardly ever come in the red zone, where space is limited, and the shoulder must go down, and he must push a pile.

Is that a fair rebuttal of the "facts"?

So far all I see is a bunch of Heath Evans in the red zone. Hey, I like Heath. Good on him. The good news is that we still have a guy left standing who can pound it the way they want it pounded - a guy who won't run away from his blocks. Why can't Laurence do that?

 

[BHSL2]

Since when would they yank Corey in red zone? Or since when did they yank Antowain in years past? Why would you yank your feature back unless he cannot get the job done? The job is pounding it in small space. Forget about it - it's not Laurence's thing. If it becomes his thing I'll be very happy. I can't be happy about it right now. Sorry, but I'm a realist not a pipe dreamer. He is not the man in the red zone, and all of his stats don't mean anything in the red zone.

You can't be serious...

They never yanked Dillon or Smith on the goal-line because smith and Dillon were 230 pound starting runningbacks who obviously had the size BB wants in his goal-line packages.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd agree on the positive yardage thing but there is also a difference between a 2 yard gain the majority of the time and a 3-4 yard gain.

Maroney seemed to be more in the 3-4 range with the raven game. What we can't afford to see is the 1-2 yard gain on first down. He need to be closer to his average.

8 of 13 carries in the Ravens game went for 4 yards or more. 5 went for 3 yards or less.

To me, that tells me he did a damn good job against one of the best run defenses in the league.

 

[Lockdown06]

There is a rebuttal that a lot of people ignore in favor of looking at the ypc stats: Red zone production.

Here's another rebuttal: Diapers in the locker.

Here's another rebuttal: Laurence standing around on the sideline in the Bills game, and then disagreeing with his coach over the cause of it.

He is used sparingly. He gets 10-15 touches maximum, and you know that those touches are designed for the location of the field, and hardly ever come in the red zone, where space is limited, and the shoulder must go down, and he must push a pile.

Is that a fair rebuttal of the "facts"?

So far all I see is a bunch of Heath Evans in the red zone. Hey, I like Heath. Good on him. The good news is that we still have a guy left standing who can pound it the way they want it pounded - a guy who won't run away from his blocks. Why can't Laurence do that?

you can't be seeing all that much of Heath Evans in the red zone - he only has 3 Tds

Maroney only has 1 less.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, I would admit that that was a decent performance.

I would also factor in the notion of Baltimore going with nickel packages most of the game. I mean, if you can't run on a nickel package ........ well ..... you know what I'm saying.

Actually, they didn't go with a nickel package most of the game. Their base defense was out there most of the game. They'd slide Reed over to play center field with Ivy moving up to cover. Or vice versa.

Also, considering that Baltimore runs a 4-3, their primary players on a run defense are their defensive line, NOT their linebackers. So, whether or not they have a 5th DB out there in lieu of a LB wouldn't make much difference as its the D-line's responsibility to inhibit the run.

I think that the Pats finally changed it up and took what the Ravens had probably been giving all night long - the run. That is smart football. I'm glad they did it. I'm glad Laurence was part of the equation. But Laurence was not the guy they wanted in there in the red zone.

Except the Ravens hadn't been giving them the run all night. That is a misconception on your part.

Why not?

Since when would they yank Corey in red zone? Or since when did they yank Antowain in years past? Why would you yank your feature back unless he cannot get the job done? The job is pounding it in small space. Forget about it - it's not Laurence's thing. If it becomes his thing I'll be very happy. I can't be happy about it right now. Sorry, but I'm a realist not a pipe dreamer. He is not the man in the red zone, and all of his stats don't mean anything in the red zone.

Corey Dillon was a POWER Running back. Yet, there were plenty of times Evans was out there in the Red Zone.

Sorry, you aren't a realist. You're not quite off in LA LA land like VJC, Danny88 or NSA, but you aren't that far off.

 

[FrontSeven]

They think that because Maroney isn't in the game in EVERY situation they believe he should be in, that Maroney sucks.

You just MIS-represented the whole idea. It's not that Laurence is not in the game in "every" situation. It's that he only touches the ball 10-15 times maximum. Repeat: Maximum.

Expecting a FIRST ROUND running back to get more than 10 touches and score a TD is not what you represented with your "every" comment.

Some day you will face the fact that ypc in the middle of the field does not equate to TDs and it does not equate to why you draft a RB with your first round pick.

I am telling you that Marion Barber would thrive in this offense. He'd be getting 20+ touches and he would be THE MAN in the red zone because he would give us a BETTER CHANCE TO SCORE THAN HEATH FREAKING EVANS.

 

[BHSL2]

10-15 times maximum. Repeat: Maximum.

Because we pass the ball a ton.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I am telling you that Marion Barber would thrive in this offense. He'd be getting 20+ touches and he would be THE MAN in the red zone because he would give us a BETTER CHANCE TO SCORE THAN HEATH FREAKING EVANS.

Agreed. There's got to be a better option in the Red Zone, than Heath Evans. I like the guy because he gives effort, but to be honest he just doesn't have a lot of talent.
I'd love to have Marion Barber on this team, he adds a toughness factor and an ability to get the job done on short yardage situations. The problem is that he plays for the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[DaBruinz]

There is a rebuttal that a lot of people ignore in favor of looking at the ypc stats: Red zone production.

Red Zone Production? Hmm.. Why? Because the Pats chose to run their JUMBO package of Evans, Seau, and Vrabel out there?

Here's another rebuttal: Diapers in the locker.

*ROFLMAO* You clearly didn't actually read the thread about the Diapers. Had you, you would have learned that Maroney's mother did an interview and mentioned about Maroney wearing Cabbage Patch Kid diapers as a premie

(see here: http://patriots.podzinger.com/viewM...&match=query,channel&e=13615335&il=en&index=9 )

Here's another rebuttal: Laurence standing around on the sideline in the Bills game, and then disagreeing with his coach over the cause of it.

When have the Patriots EVER talked truthfully about injuries.
When you are up 35-7 at the half, why run your starting RB against a coach who you respect.

He is used sparingly. He gets 10-15 touches maximum, and you know that those touches are designed for the location of the field, and hardly ever come in the red zone, where space is limited, and the shoulder must go down, and he must push a pile.

Is that a fair rebuttal of the "facts"?

No, its not a fair rebuttal. But you probably think it is..

Maroney was getting more than 15 touches before he got injured. Since he got injured, yes, his max was 15. However, the Pats are also running the ball only 22 times a game in the last six games, compared to 31 during the 1st 6. The Maroney bashers don't want to even think it might be the game plan (Philly, Baltimore).

So far all I see is a bunch of Heath Evans in the red zone. Hey, I like Heath. Good on him. The good news is that we still have a guy left standing who can pound it the way they want it pounded - a guy who won't run away from his blocks. Why can't Laurence do that?

Maroney is NOT a 240 lbs power back. The Pats put Evans in on SOME Goal line situations because he is their jumbo package RB. I really wish the people who are hating on Maroney would look at the SPLITS.. It would be an eye opener for you.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=9607
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=2630
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=2287
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=1798

Maroney has had 18 touches inside the Red Zone. He's gotten 47 yards. 2.6 YPC. 2 TDs
Evans has had 14 touches inside the Red Zone. He's gotten 23 yards. That's a whopping 1.6 YPC. 3 TDs
Morris had 24 touches inside the Red Zone. 50 yards He averaged 2.1 YPC. 3 TDs
Faulk has had 12 carries for 51 yards in the Red Zone. 4.25 YPC. 0 TDs.

So, this idea that Evans gets more touches in the Red Zone is bogus.
Maroney isn't our best runner there, but he's not the worst either. Some of it is the fact that the Pats have telegraphed so much that when Maroney is on the field, its a running play. So defenses are able to stack the box. The more play-action they do with Maroney, the better off they are going to be. Both when Maroney actually gets the ball and when they actually pass.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Some of it is the fact that the Pats have telegraphed so much that when Maroney is on the field, its a running play. So defenses are able to stack the box. The more play-action they do with Maroney, the better off they are going to be. Both when Maroney actually gets the ball and when they actually pass.

The problem is that you can't run play-action well when you have no CREDIBLE running attack. Defenses don't respect Maroney for anything but his running ability, they don't NEED to stack 8 in the box, yet they are easily stuffing him when he does run, as that's the only thing he can do. Hmmm. Could it be, he just doesn't have "it"?

Maroney has had 31 touches inside the Red Zone. He's gotten 78 yards. 2.5 YPC.

Nuff said. Thanks for looking up the numbers for us.
BTW Maroney has scored a grand total of TWO times in 31 red zone touches. That one was a freebie as a reward for your work.

 

[DaBruinz]

You just MIS-represented the whole idea. It's not that Laurence is not in the game in "every" situation. It's that he only touches the ball 10-15 times maximum. Repeat: Maximum.

That is FALSE. Maroney has had games of 19 and 20 carries. Both prior to his injury this year. Since then, the game plans have changed based on the opponents we've faced. But don't let that fact hit you in the face or anything.

Also, I didn't mis-represent anything. You read what you wanted to read. I am blaming the flawed expectations of the flock that seems to want to decide that a 22 year old player, in only his 2nd year in the league, is, somehow, already a bust because the Patriots have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and one of the best Receiving corps and they chose to use them.

Expecting a FIRST ROUND running back to get more than 10 touches and score a TD is not what you represented with your "every" comment.

Those may be YOUR expectations, but they are NOT the expectations of the hater. But you also completely ignore the game plan and how this team is being run. You chose to blame it on Maroney, a 22 year old with less experience playing the game then a guy such as Addai or even Lynch.

Some day you will face the fact that ypc in the middle of the field does not equate to TDs and it does not equate to why you draft a RB with your first round pick.

And some day you'll get your cranial rectal inversion done and realize that I am NOT basing my entire defense of Maroney on his YPC. Some day you learn that the Patriots offense is designed around a multi-back system where they have a designated 3rd down back in Faulk and used Morris and Evans in power-running situations. That is how the offense was DESIGNED. It does numerous things. Like keep all your backs fresh and spreads the ball around.

I am telling you that Marion Barber would thrive in this offense. He'd be getting 20+ touches and he would be THE MAN in the red zone because he would give us a BETTER CHANCE TO SCORE THAN HEATH FREAKING EVANS.

Marion Barber is a POWER Running back. I love the guy and get to see him play on a regular basis. And, while Barber would give the Pats a better chance to score, he's not here. And to pine away for something we don't have and won't have is just silly.