I'm Hungry, Mr. Macaroney!

[Ring 6]

The number of TDs has to be one of the dumbest criticisms I have heard. Some teams just have a big RB they use in the jumbo package, and for the Pats, it's Heath Evans. For Pittsburgh, it used to be Jerome Bettis.

The other problem is that critics of Maroney seem to be using the following syllogism: high draft means "feature" back, which means a certain set of statistics. But the Pats do not play an offense like many teams -- they use multiple back, many shotgun sets where Faulk is a very good back (and TB has said he likes shotgun), and they do a lot of pass-run plays, like the quick passes to Welker. I believe the only year we have had the really big RB year was Dillon in 2004.

I believe that if Addai were on the Pats, Faulk would still be playing third downs, Morris would have had a bunch of carries, and Evans would be used at the goal line. Indy, on the other hand, carries only 3 backs with a main back, a backup, and a backup backup.

I agree 100%.
I would not argue with this statement however:

Put Addai here, and he would be doing exactly what Maroney is doing, and pretty much at the same level. But, put Maroney in Indy and we do not know yet whether he would produce like Addai in that role.

That isn't a criticism or negative about Maroney, its that Addai has had an expanded role compared to Maroney, and proven what he can do in that role. Maroney hasn't had the opportunity to have that role.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Originally Posted by FrontSeven
It's not the coaches' job to reinvent the offense; it's the kid's job to do what he's asked to do.

WRONG. Its the coaches job to implement plays that play to his players strengths. Otherwise, the Pats wouldn't have switched to a ZONE BLOCKING system.

Maybe you should stop and think about what you are saying and what is reality because you clearly haven't done that.

This is the point that needs to be made and re-emphasized for those who are not knowledgeable on the coaching aspects of the game, especially at the NFL level.

First, you look for the proper horses to ride, that you think will help improve your team. Then you design your plays and game plans around those horses.

That is a most important aspect of the coaching function.

Before (or even after) drafting a player, it's not like the playbook is holy writ come down from Mt. Sinai.

A football team is a dynamic entity, and you make changes in accordance with the challenge that's in front of you, given that which you already have.

As has already been pointed out, Maroney is doing what the coaches want, and he's doing just fine at it. Don't worry - as he gets older and acquires more experience, he'll get better.

And you've got to admit, from the rest of the league's point of view, that is indeed a scary prospect!

 

[ATippett56]

For what it's worth:

Maroney on running style
By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff December 7, 07 12:00 PM

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

December 5, 2007
Belichick growing frustrated with RB Maroney

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/New+England/WWHI/default.htm

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I was surprised to hear LoMo's tone in the first article (if it's the same one I read.)

I was not surprised that PFT ran the second article. They're rumor-mongers. "The mind" of Bill Belichick might be known to them, through his uses of Faulk and Maroney. It also might not be, those choices on BB's part having to do with conclusions other than those drawn by this disposable rag.

In BB I trust, but not in PFT. If he goes out and drafts McFadden, conversation over. I just don't think he will.

PFnV

 

[Ring 6]

For what it's worth:

Maroney on running style
By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff December 7, 07 12:00 PM

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

December 5, 2007
Belichick growing frustrated with RB Maroney

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/New+England/WWHI/default.htm

You shouldnt even bother to link the BB thing.
First of all, we all know that BBs feelings about players are not going to be leaked to the media.
Secondly, there is not even a reference to any source of the report.
Thirdly, my experience is that PFW way we hear it are taken from callers into talk radio shows, and message boards.

I would bet that if we started a thread saying Tom Brady and BB are having a disagreement about going for an undefeated season and the TD record, saying that Brady wants the record and is angry at BB for not committing to getting it, and then it took a life of its own, and we took it to other boards, PFW way we hear it, would end up posting a blurb about the rift between Brady and BB.

By the way, if there was ANY credibility to those reports, and if they had ANYTHING RESMBLING a source, they would credit the person reporting it.

 

[ATippett56]

I was not surprised that PFT ran the second article.
PFnV

It's Pro Football Weekly not Pro Football Talk.

 

[ATippett56]

By the way, if there was ANY credibility to those reports, and if they had ANYTHING RESMBLING a source, they would credit the person reporting it.

Personally, I'll reserve judgement on Maroney when the playoffs arrive.

 

[Ring 6]

I was surprised to hear LoMo's tone in the first article (if it's the same one I read.)

I was not surprised that PFT ran the second article. They're rumor-mongers. "The mind" of Bill Belichick might be known to them, through his uses of Faulk and Maroney. It also might not be, those choices on BB's part having to do with conclusions other than those drawn by this disposable rag.

In BB I trust, but not in PFT. If he goes out and drafts McFadden, conversation over. I just don't think he will.

PFnV

Not sure if you can judge tone from a written article. I would imagine the words surrounding the quotations are the authors way of setting a tone, correct, incorrect, with or without agenda.
I do know though that if I was an NFL RB and some sportsriter came up to me with a question like "People think your running style is dancing too much and dont hit the hole hard" I would certainly respond with a tone that is clearly and obviously plssed off.

 

[Ring 6]

Personally, I'll reserve judgement on Maroney when the playoffs arrive.

Thats a reasonable approach.
There are a lot of variables in judging his play this year.

-Injuries
-The play calling that limits his chances
-How much are his numbers down because we have the most prolific pass offense ever
-How much are they down because we have had many games already decided early in the second half

It would seem that the anti-Maroney crowd is answering every variable as: Its Maroneys fault. (i.e. we only throw because we don't want to give Maroney the ball)
And every pro-Maroney is answering the variables with: They have nothing to do with Maroney. (i.e. he is getting less carries BECAUSE we are so good passing)

By the time the SB is over, a lot of these questions will be answered.

How Maroney is used in the AFCC game will indicate something to me, while how he is used ahead of the Bills by 40 points doesnt.

 

[MassPats38]

Andy-

Certainly some good points. I thought Maroney showed some skills on his receptions last game. While I don't know if you may see a definitive answer this year, given the multiple change-ups thrown into offensive game plans from week-to-week, he has the skills.

Comparisons between backs in different systems tend to be empty statistical exercises. If Maroney were getting hit for losses every carry behind a solid run blocking line, there would be no explanation other than he lacks ability. At 4.3 YPC, I don't think that can be said.

Those lauding Faulk now may want to look back in his history to his fumble issues (my brother still calls him fumblitis Faulk based on those tough years). I think he is a great player for the past several years, but he had issues in his youth.

Throw in some of the injury concerns - a point discussed on Sirius some time ago. Do you piledrive a defender for the extra yard or do you go down/run out of bounds. To some, you go for the extra yard. But, if you get hurt doing that, you are then an idiot or injury prone. It creates its own issues for RBs in the NFL.

The point is, there are 50 variables that could determine statistics, so to look at the issue as one of simply picking up the rock and running for x yards makes you the best, irrespective of blocking, schemes, weather, etc., reflects ignorance to the point of absurdity. Those who do that may as well look at college RB stats and ask why the same RB "lost a step" in his first year in the NFL.

In the end, I reserve judgment for a few years. If you want bad RB examples, look back to the Marion Butts experience in New England during which he averaged less than 3 YPC and was frequently, as a big back, stood up by corners behind the line. Faaantastic!

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz,
One thing I disagree with you on is the idea that you wouldnt use Maroney in situations because he is not a 'power back'. When we were running out the clock vs Buff if it was a 7 point game, Maroney would have been in there. BB chooses to use his 250lb FB, who has RB skills in short yardage, but could easily use Maroney. "Power runners" do not produce different results in different situations than any other type of runners of equal ability. It is a style not a requirement of any kind of running play.

Please show me where I said that the Pats would use a "power back" to run out the clock, AJ? Also, if it was a 7 point game, you're right. They'd have used Maroney. I've not said otherwise.

Maroney is a back that runs with power at times. He's getting better at running with power more often. However, on a 4th and 1 and a run up the middle, the Pats have shown they are going to use either Evans to power it or Brady on the sneak. That is just how BB and McDaniels prefer to run that play. That isn't a knock against Maroney. Which is one of the issues that I have with the numbskulls. They think that because Maroney isn't in the game in EVERY situation they believe he should be in, that Maroney sucks. And that just isn't the case. Maroney has a role. A role he's developing into. A role that the Pats coaching staff have defined.

My conclusion to all of these Maroney threads, at this point in his career is this:
-He is our #1 RB
-We run an offense that wants to throw the ball alot
-We have a 3rd passing game RB, so he will see playing time, taking what has been 4 carries a game away from Maroney
-Maroneys per carry #s are good. His gross numbers are so-so, but the gross numbers are not a reflection of his play, but his use, and his use is not a statement of a lack of ability.
-His use is affected by the one injury he had, and the numerous games that he was out of the game because it was decided. They are also affected by the fact that we have the best passing game ever, so if we are smart, we use it a lot. (by the way, no one has added that it is also due to the SUCCESS of the passing game. If we run/pass 50/50 and another team run/pass rate is also 50/50 we run less, because we gain more yards on the passes, and are in the end zone sooner)
-Today, at this point in his career, the best description of Maroney talent and play, compared to the league, is that he is better than half the NFL starting RBs and worse than half.
-That being the case, he was a GREAT PICK. Drafted 21st in the first round and by year 2 being the average starter in the NFL at your position is a tremendously successful pick.
-We do not know yet what Maroney will do when called upon to run the ball 25 times a game. The fact that we do not know is NOT a negative about Maroney. Every other factor says he will do fine, but until we reach the point where it happens, we can only guess.
-For the role he has been given, he has done very well. I see nothing saying that his role is at all limited because of him. I see nothing telling me he wont do very well in whatever role he is given going forward.
-I have no clue why some fans have an anti-Maroney agenda.

Nothin you've said in this last part I disagree with.

 

[danny88]

Maroney has made some plays. Someone mentioned that he actually had one of the highest success rates at gaining 1st downs in the league.



Obviously you are NSA's idiot brother.
Lets review a few things you've skipped.
1) Maroney is just 22. He's got 2 years less experience than Joseph Addai.
2) The O-line still isn't great in using the zone blocking.
3) Against the Steelers, ALL of Maroney's carries were for positive yardage. Since you love stats, the Steelers are the BEST run defense in the league.
4) The Pats use a multi-back system with defined roles within the game plan. Maroney - 1st/2nd down back. Faulk - Pass catching RB. Morris - All-purpose back, including short-yardage. Evans has since picked up the short yardage stuff, though Maroney has taken in his 2 as well.




Obvioulsy you are clueless and don't understand that Sammy Morris and Laurence Maroney are 2 different styles of running back. Maroney is NOT a power back. He never has been. He has run with power, but that doesn't make him a power back in the mold of Corey Dillon.




*ROFLMOA* WOW. You are an idiot. Faulk has 9 years experience and is one of the best (if not the best) 3rd down back in the league. Of course he's going to be out there on a critical 3rd down moron. He's got the experience.



The fact that you've never been a RB is proof positive you are clueless as to what you are talking about.

Barry Sanders played in an offense that relied on a single RB. So, you're right, he probably never went 118 consecutive carries without a TD. Its pretty idiotic to compare Maroney to Sanders when they weren't even close to being in a similar system.




Who the hell are you, with your IDIOCY to claim that Maroney is a bust? Maybe you should STFU, learn something about the game other than sitting on your lazy fat arse and thinking you know a damn thing about the game.

The fact that you would bench Maroney shows how dumb you really are. The fact that you compare him to guys with 8 and 9 years experience as if they were EQUALS shows how you truly don't deal with the facts.



You aren't a Pats fan. You are a friggin troll who's got nothing better to do than to rip a kid who isn't meeting your uneducated and unrealistic expectations.

Maroney is already smarter than you.
Maroney is 22. Why don't you STFU and grow up yourself.
Maroney is allowed to have the attitude. In fact, its hilarious that schmucks like you think you have a damn clue and can read into his ATTITUDE as if you've known him his whole life.

How do you know he's not playing Patriots football? How do you know he's not doing exactly what Belichick has told him to do? You don't.

More excuses from da bruinz

 

[Patsman]

Please don't offer the yards per carry as substantiation for LM. Most decently qualified RB's in the NFL could do the same in this offense. Why don't we pull up Heath Evan's and Kyle E's rpg while we're at it. If there is anything I can be proud of LM this season for it's the fact that he hasn't fumbled.

As far as hit style, a couple things. He goes down on initial contact on what seems every time. To me, an effective RB is not a guy that can just hit a hole, because most RB's can do that. It's a guy that can either elude or break initial contact and get that extra yard or two. The difference in a good and bad NFL RB is usually a yard per carry. The difference is a guy that can put you in a second and 5 or 6 situation rather than a second and 8. LM just doesn't show any ability to have a motor to find that extra yard - that's visible and apparent. If he was a big play breaking kind of guy(Barry Sanders), then he might be worth it, but he hasn't shown that. Otherwise, I take a guy like Sammy.

LM runs wide, is an easy target for tackle, can't slip through gaps in between defenders and once grasped, can't push through tackles. Sure he's fast and shifty in the open field, great for screens, but he's not a premier feature back - more of a change the pace kind of guy. Split him with a guy like Sammy, I think he's successful, but make him a primary, I don't - unless he shows something he hasn't yet.

 

[Lockdown06]

Please don't offer the yards per carry as substantiation for LM. Most decently qualified RB's in the NFL could do the same in this offense. Why don't we pull up Heath Evan's and Kyle E's rpg while we're at it. If there is anything I can be proud of LM this season for it's the fact that he hasn't fumbled.

As far as hit style, a couple things. He goes down on initial contact on what seems every time. To me, an effective RB is not a guy that can just hit a hole, because most RB's can do that. It's a guy that can either elude or break initial contact and get that extra yard or two. The difference in a good and bad NFL RB is usually a yard per carry. The difference is a guy that can put you in a second and 5 or 6 situation rather than a second and 8. LM just doesn't show any ability to have a motor to find that extra yard - that's visible and apparent. If he was a big play breaking kind of guy(Barry Sanders), then he might be worth it, but he hasn't shown that. Otherwise, I take a guy like Sammy.

LM runs wide, is an easy target for tackle, can't slip through gaps in between defenders and once grasped, can't push through tackles. Sure he's fast and shifty in the open field, great for screens, but he's not a premier feature back - more of a change the pace kind of guy. Split him with a guy like Sammy, I think he's successful, but make him a primary, I don't - unless he shows something he hasn't yet.

heath evans is averaging 3.5 yards per carry, and kyle eckel is averaging 2.7 yards per carry.

 

[BHSL2]

More excuses from da bruinz

No, his points are just too good for you to argue against. No wonder why you didn't try.

 

[danny88]

No, his points are just too good for you to argue against. No wonder why you didn't try.

His excuses? We shall see how Mr maroney does this weekend. Then we can talk more. I will be there , and I will make sure to cheer for him every time he makes a huge play.

 

[BHSL2]

His excuses? We shall see how Mr maroney does this weekend. Then we can talk more. I will be there , and I will make sure to cheer for him every time he makes a huge play.

Do me a favor then, please. Since you will be there, watch Maroney's tendencies and watch what happens in the play around him. Come back with what you find.

 

[sieglo]

I'm really starting to get tired of all this bagging on Maroney.

Maroney is far from this team's biggest problem.

He's a better than average back in my opinion.

The way he pounded the ball in the end zone on a critical play during the Eagles game says all you need to know about this guy in the clutch. Then he follows it up with a huge game versus the Ravens.

I think people on this board need to move past the Maroney issue and EFF OFF.

 

[PaulNEPats]

Ever since that first half of his rookie campaign, Maroney hasn't been the same. Injuries played a part in that, but you can only use that as a crutch for so long. I'm pretty damn nervous about the running game going into the playoffs, especially with these teams getting to Brady lately. It'd be nice to have a running game to fall back on so Brady doesn't get killed.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Ever since that first half of his rookie campaign, Maroney hasn't been the same. Injuries played a part in that, but you can only use that as a crutch for so long. I'm pretty damn nervous about the running game going into the playoffs, especially with these teams getting to Brady lately. It'd be nice to have a running game to fall back on so Brady doesn't get killed.

I will say the raven game was somewhat encouraging. He did gain yardage on it seemed about 75% of the plays. you have to admit the Ravens are a tough defense and it was windy conditions so they might not have respected the pass as much, plus they held alot.

if LM can get his 3-4 minimum per carry then that is an extreme positive I think at this point. If they could start utilizing his pass catching skills in the flat like dallas did with emitt then that could be another feature of this offense.

I don't think it's the end of the world. if the Pats can get 60-75 yards out of him a game in combination with evans and faulk I think they'll be in good shape.