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I'm Hungry, Mr. Macaroney!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsfangr, Dec 8, 2007.

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  1. patsfangr

    patsfangr Rookie

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    ***** The meal I would enjoy most can only be provided by the Patriots "feature RB". I desperately want him to make me eat the words I'm about to write!

    ***** Here's a note from Reiss' Blog, with an "open letter" from me to Mr. "Macaroney" to follow:

    Maroney on running style
    FOXBOROUGH -- Patriots running back Laurence Maroney drew a crowd in the locker room today at Gillette Stadium. Once again, his running style was a topic of conversation.
    The question of whether Maroney dances too much behind the line of scrimmage – and doesn’t enter the hole with authority – seems to have struck a nerve with him. When told that some critics believe Maroney hesitates too much, he asked: “How many of those people have actually played running back?”
    “It’s like me trying to critique you all about how to ask questions or how to do an interview,” Maroney continued. “You aren’t really going to listen to it, because I’ve never did it before. Just like I’m not really going to pay attention to what someone says about running north-south because you never know what I see out there or what is happening – like if a guy is coming free in the hole, what do you want me to do? I’m trying to make plays, trying to make it happen, so it might look like I’m dancing, but I’m really trying to make something happen.
    “So I’m not going to get into that, go back and forth, that I’m running north-south, that I’m running laterally. I’m just out there to make plays and that’s what I try to do.”

    ***** Well, I'll tell ya what, Mr. Macaroney, MAKE A FEW PLAYS running the ball from behind the LOS, and maybe you won't have to "get into that"!

    ***** Let's review, shall we? You have carried the ball 118 times for 511 yards (4.3 YPC). Your LONGEST run in those 118 carries was for 19 yards! You have scored a total of 2 TDs in those 118 carries! Just how many of those carries would you classify as "making a play"?!

    ***** Just how would you define those 118 carries in comparison to the performances of "journeyman backup", Sammy Morris; who, before his injury, had 85 carries for 354 yards (4.5 YPC), with a long of 49 yards, and 3 TDs?! He actually HAS played running back! His "style" is go where the play is designed to go, and, if there's no hole immediately apparent, to MAKE ONE, by putting his shoulder down, driving forward with his legs, and HITTING SOMEBODY!

    ***** Hell, Kevin Faulk has a better YPC (4.4) than you do. He's 9 years older, 3" shorter, and 18 pounds lighter than you, Mr. Macaroney; and who do the Patriots turn to for a critical 3rd down run, as they did in last week's game against the Ravens? It's Kevin Faulk. And how does he run that play? He makes one quick cut, drops his shoulder, and drives straight ahead for, guess what, a FIRST DOWN!

    ***** That, Mr. Macaroney, is how to play RB in the NFL, particularly on this team. Oh, do you wonder about that name I've chosen for you? Well, I consider it a name which accurately describes YOUR running style - that of a wet noodle! I, for one, am tired of it. And I'm tired of you stubbornly, and ignorantly, refusing to accept the coaching, yes, and even the external criticism, that has repeatedly pointed out to you that "what you see out there" isn't what should determine your next move. The design of the play is what should determine that next move.

    ***** I've never played RB, Mr. Macaroney. But I've been watching people play it in the NFL for over 50 years. In all that time, in all those hundreds, perhaps even thousands of games, I've seen only ONE successful RB who consistently ran with "dancing" and "lateral movement", rarely going "north-south" from behind the LOS. That was Barry Sanders. And, if you'll read a bit, or watch a few old NFL films, I will bet that you'll discover that he never went for 118 consecutive carries with a "long run" of 19 yards. And, while I don't have such stats at my disposal, I suspect that he never went for 118 consecutive carries with less than 3 TDs!

    ***** So DROP your arrogant retorts to the press, Mr. Macaroney. You are not even close to having the production in your record to justify such an attitude. You are, to this point in your career, a TOTAL BUST as a Round 1 pick. If it were up to me, I would have signed Corey Dillon weeks ago, and given him time to work himself into shape for Playoffs. Then I'd bench your sorry ass for the playoffs, and put in a pro, who knows how to drive for a few extra yards when needed to make a 1st Down, or a TD!

    ***** OK, Mr. Macaroney. I'm still hungry. Come on, make me eat my words! I am, above all else, a Patriots fan. As long as you wear that uniform, I want nothing but the utmost success for you. I am convinced that you will not achieve any significant level of success on this team by "trying to make something happen" your way. By now, it should be as evident to you as it is to me, and thousands of other observers, some of whom probably HAVE "actually played RB", that either what you think you see is wrong, or you simply don't have the moves required at this level to get to the places you think you need to get to in order to "make a play".

    SMARTEN UP!
    GROW UP!
    DROP THE ATTITUDE!
    STOP PLAYING "MARONEY" FOOTBALL, AND START PLAYING PATRIOTS FOOTBALL!
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  2. SpiderFox53

    SpiderFox53 Rookie

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    I only have a few things to say to you.

    I'm very glad you don't run the team. Dillon? Really?

    and

    4.3 yards per carry with no 'huge' plays is much more impressive to me than 4.3 would be with a 'huge' play.

    Having a 70 yard run on one drive will hugely inflate your stats, but it only helps with that one drive. Having no breakaway plays and still averaging over 4 ypc helps EVERY drive.

    I'm not a Maroney ballwasher as I think he could be playing better, but you have gone off the deep end the other way.

    Maroney could be playing better, but he could be a heck of a lot worse.
  3. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Well?

    And 4.3 YPC?

    Calm down.
  4. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I, too, would like to have seen Dillon return, but more for nostalgic reasons. If you are riding the Maroney hate train, you may want to do some research and realize that Dillon had a 4.3 yard average over his career and a 4.7 yard average his best year with the Pats three years ago. And remember too, he was pretty gassed last year when he ran a long screen, so I would not expect the Bengals-era Dillon to return from retirement. Dillon is the man, but don't expect the world from an older athlete.

    4.3 yards/carry is repectable in the NFL, and consistently putting 4 yards a carry out (not ripping off a 70 yard play and following that up with a series of no gains or 1-yard gains) means third and short instead of third and long for the offense.

    The running game works for the Pats. They are 12-0. If you picked Maroney for some fantasy team you have my sympathy, but I would expect an offense bringing in this many high-powered receivers in the offseason would not be looking to run more than pass.
  5. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    What's it got to do with hate? He's frustrated. He senses, and rightfully so, whether it's correct or not, that Laurence is not taking the coaching. He's not running where the play is designed to go. That doesn't frustrate you? Nobody hates Laurence. It's OK to express frustration with him without getting into this "hate" thing. Go pass a hate bill in congress.

    I think it was the Buffalo game: Laurence gets the ball, does not hit the area designed for the play, goes left, gets buried by four Bills, and our *entire* OL is standing around looking at each other (did you ever see the OL all standing straight up looking at each other on a running play?) and looking around for Laurence. They clearly did not know where he went. They clearly were blocking in one area while he chose to go to another and get buried.

    If 4.3 ypc is all you want to see, then that's what you'll see. It's pretty obvious that Sammy Morris stole the job from him though. Laurence is a backup RB who inherited the starter position due to injury.
  6. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    It's pretty obvious to see Maroney was getting more carries and yards than him before the groin injury.
  7. apricissimus

    apricissimus Rookie

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    This is just my impression from watching the games... I don't have video analysis to back this up or anything... but it seems to me that they've been trying to run Maroney up the middle a lot more lately, and he's been running into stiff resistance there. The O-line hasn't been doing a great job at creating holes for him, at least up the middle. This play calling sort of surprises me because it doesn't seem to play to Maroney's strengths.

    Again, this is just my impression, and if someone has stats that say something different, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
  8. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    Let's face it: Before the injury, Sammy Morris was the feature back and Laurence was the backup. That is reality.

    Let's face it again: Out the group of Marshawn Lynch, Thomas Jones and Ronnie Brown, and Laurence, I don't know anybody that would put Laurence ahead of any of them. Each one of those guys runs hard and punishes tacklers. Laurence does not punish anybody. Laurence gets punished. Sammy belonged in that group of punishing backs.

    Let's face this too: He's very good in the open field. Perhaps they will just throw him the ball more often now and get some production out of him. He seems to love space, and he knows how to deal with it, and has special skills there. Maybe he should be a third down back.

    Maybe he fancies himself as a cutback runner but I don't see such lanes opening up on any regular basis. Doesn't this tell us that the blocking schemes are not designed to open such lanes?

    Who scored the TD the other night? Heath Evans. Why? Probably because they wanted to make sure the RB would follow the blocks and run hard and maybe use his power to get into the end zone? I'm all for it. Give the ball to Heath and Kyle and punish some tacklers, and use Laurence out of the backfield in space on passing downs.
  9. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    How can this be when before Maroney's injury, Laurence was getting more carries and yards? Hmm?
  10. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am certainly frustrated with Maroney as I still think he dances too much before hitting the hole and leaves positive yards on the field in doing so. That to me is reflective off habits from a slower college game in which you can dance and wait for something to open up in contrast to the NFL speed in which you dance and get splatted like a bug.

    The bottom line to me is he produces acceptable numbers. Could they be better? I think so. I just wouldn't jump to conclusions on what Kevin Faulk does or Morris did compared to Maroney as Faulk tends to spell pass with lower run probability (the defenses are more inclined to be surprised when he runs) and Morris at times profitted from game situations (in one game, I believe Cincy, the team was out of LBs and was using DBs - I suspect Craig James could have put on pads today and run for 100 yards behind a line that was running over a defense half its size). As for media reactions, I never trust them. If Maroney is playing, I suspect he is responding to coaching. I believe Belichick would rather put a lineman at running back than put a player who isn't following his direction. If they play well in practice that week, they play.

    I have no Maroney jerseys and still have not decided whether he will be a Tom Brady or a Bethel Johnson when we look back at this Pats career. I just think it is a tough year to judge a second-year back with the receiving numbers and scoring being recorded.
  11. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    I'm with you man. I'm also frustrated to see for the second straight year McDaniels not calling plays designed around Maroney's strengths.
  12. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Only flaw in this comparision is poor guy is very young and being compared to RB`s who have been the field a few years and are more experienced.

    He will improve and be good. We are a game plan team.we go 4 / 5 wides and he gets 1 carry and he is blamed.

    faluk runs alot of delayed runs as he a receiving back and LB drop into zone with him how can you compare this to maroney,if they run him 25 times and brady throws for say 20 times and every one here will be asking for josh`s head.

    I would someone to pls explain how this bad player is generating .5 yrds/carry more than any RB against the ravens with OL just getting man handled.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  13. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Exactly!!!! Great post. The kid is a little baby. He badmouthed his college coach last year just before the Minnesota game too. The kid thinks he's "arrived" already. Mr. Mediocre.
  14. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    Do you really think, no matter how many stats you can pull out of the ethers, that Laurence is the RB of choice over Lynch, Brown, Thomas or Morris?

    Can you name a play when Laurence punished a tackler?
  15. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

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    Exactly. Hell, can you name ONE PLAY that this guy has made running the ball that has been out of the ordinary? Has he EVER made something out of nothing like the other great backs do? Never.
  16. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    First of all he's not a bad player and nobody has said that. We're saying, I think, that he can be better - much better.

    How can you ask a question about the Ravens without considering that they might have been in a nickel or dime coverage half the night? If you can't run against a dime configuration then that's pretty lame. They gave up the run to stop the pass - it's not rocket science.

    Just ask yourself who you'd pick in a draft that offered you four choices: Laurence, Ronnie Brown, Marshawn Lynch, and Thomas Jones. If we clearly have the inferior back of that group, doesn't that tell you something?
  17. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    Thanks for dodging my point, but I'll answer yours. Clearly in your opinion, it doesn't matter that Maroney was getting more carries and yards than Morris early on. :rolleyes:

    First of all, Anthony Thomas over Laurence Maroney? Thanks for the joke.
    Brown and Lynch are getting more yards and more carries than Maroney. Clearly, they are performing better. That happens in sports.

    Laurence is not a power back. He is a space killer. Therefore, we need to call more plays to get him in space to see his effectiveness. However, I saw him making 5 yard gains out of nothing against the Raven's top rushing defense on Monday night. I do believe the kid can get yards up the middle when called upon to do so, but I do not believe in running him up the middle every single play which McDaniels does. I have been pissed about it since last year.

    The Ravens have the best inside combo in the league. It was a perfect defensive gameplan - let Haloti and Kregg eat up the middle.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  18. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    So far I'd have to look back to last year's Bengals game. This year has been adequate, but nothing memorable.

    I like the kid. I just don't like his running style. He cannot punish a tackler and he cannot push a pile and he cannot consistently follow his blockers. That's all mental if you ask me.
  19. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    Come on, you know I mean Thomas Jones. And you know the point about that.

    Well so what if the Ravens were in a nickel or dime all night? They clearly were giving the run weren't they?

    Look, you saying that Laurence is a "space killer" and not a power back is exactly what I've been saying. Here is where we differ: I don't think the team expected that. And I don't think it's the coaches' job to redesign an offense based upon the whims of rookie or second year backs. It's the other way around.

    Yes, I agree that McDaniels can now begin to design more plays for him out in space, but that doesn't solve the problem of who pounds the ball to keep the defense honest. I mean we just don't have anybody at a high level if he doesn't do it. And he won't. Or he can't. Whatever.
  20. Fanfrom1960

    Fanfrom1960 Rookie

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    I'm no Maroney apologist, more in the camp of I can't decide about his running ability yet. But, if you look at film of Adrian Peterson, rookie sensation for the Vikings, he also jukes some, faking defenders out of their jocks, then goes for big yardage. Barry Sanders certainly did that a lot. Not to compare Maroney to those guys, but I can't say he dances too much, at least not that I can tell yet. I have seen Marshawn Lynch quite a lot, still more at Cal than with Buffalo, and he can take it to tacklers, break away, while still being pretty fast. I don't think there's any question he was more "ready" for the NFL than Maroney. Will Maroney ever catch up with Lynch? Who knows, and now Lynch is hurt anyway. Quite an enigma, Mr. Maroney.
  21. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    I would not take Thomas Jones over Maroney. Maybe as Maroney's back up I would, but not the starter.

    If it's the team's philosophy to utilize Maroney the way they want, then so be it. I don't neccesarily believe in changing the whole blocking schemes for the kid, but I am truthfully surprised to not see the gameplan taking advantage of the faking et al. possibilities of Maroney.
  22. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    It's not the coaches' job to reinvent the offense; it's the kid's job to do what he's asked to do.

    All those plays are already in the play book for Kevin. We don't need another third down specialist. If we drafted him in the first round to be a third down speecialst to take over for a guy that is better than him, then somebody is whacked.
  23. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    That's not my point. I'm talking about creative ways to use the ability of your feature back. But whatever. I'm disappointed with the lack of produciton just like others, but I'm being real about it:

    1) This is a pass heavy team. Look at the Eagles from a couple years back. They would put the ball in the air numerous time and Westbrook would average only 10-15 carries a game.

    2) He is still young and learning.

    This is why I have not outwardly called him a bust or a dud as other people have done.
  24. Lockdown06

    Lockdown06 Rookie

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    after the 2nd bills game, Belichick said in his press conference that he "loved Laurence Maroney" (i'm not paraphrasing.) You can personally dislike his running style, and thats fine, but the bottom line is the coaching staff is happy with what he's doing.
  25. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    If Laurence could do what Peterson does or Sanders did then we wouldn't be having this perplexing conversation. The fact is that he's not that talented at that type of game.

    If you ask me he's got the potential to be a great third down back, but we already have one. Now what? Now we need somebody in a role that this kid is not suited for, and we're turning to Heath and Kyle to pound it in the red zone.

    Maybe they had this all figured out and that's why they brought in Sammy. When you think about it, we had a great 1-2 there with both of them healthy.
  26. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    Earlier this season LoMo himself mentioned that the team was working with him on his running "style," so maybe BB is concerned how LoMo runss the ball - or it was/is just part of the training BB puts all young players through, not a criticism but a refinement. Either way, Maroney doesn't look as natural as he did last year running the ball (though the two pass plays against the Ravens were much more like last year). Maroney seems to be thinking too much and not reacting, normal for a young player on a top team, especially with a coach like BB who, as I've said before, really seems to specialize in breaking down young players hard, then reconstructing them in his vision.

    Maybe he hasn't dazzled but anyone who doesn't think LoMo hasn't been productive isn't watching the game or looking at the stats. And Maroney drops his shoulder and rocks people all the time. Don't believe me? just re-watch the games! If anything, when Maroney goes up the middle now he seems too ready to smash someone and not keep his head up and look for that secondary hole to open.

    BTW, is there any way we can get rid of National Sports Advisors? It's one thing to be a dissident but thoughtless, reflexive, troll-like negativity stinks up the joint. Dude, take your tired act to the bathroom, get close to a mirror and just love yourself there day and night. You'll be happy and we won't have to tolerate your nonsense.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  27. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    Very good post. We really should watch the tapes more to see whats happening. Too bad I can't record the games anymore. :mad:
  28. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

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    Well, I'm all in favor of them utilizing him correctly, but my fear is that he's lacking the gumption to do what they really need him to do.

    If he turned out to be a Westbrook I'd be overjoyed. If they throw in some more plays to bring out the Westbrook in him, I'm overjoyed. I think they have started to do that, and I hope to see more of it. But I have to go back to my fear that he can't do one thing that Westbrook can do. He can't pound it between the tackles. I know, I know, Westbrook isn't all about that either, but he can do it. He does it better than anything I've seen out of Laurence. Westbrook gets low, can drive hard, and by being low he avoids those horse collar and shoulder tackles. He's much more savvy between the tackles. I really fear that Laurence has a mental block that will prevent him from learning what Westbrook can do.
  29. Buchanty

    Buchanty Rookie

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    I like to put "Maroney can't run North-South" in the same bucket as "The Patriot's have no run game" and "the Pats Defense is old". All of these are myths or near myths that BB is quite happy for the media to believe. It is a slight of hand that may force the opposition, especially in the playoffs, to make a game planning mistake. - That's the optimistic side of me.

    The pessimistic side of me suggests that Maroney doesnt always follow the play book according to the letter, and is trying to make a big play where there isnt one. When he is in the game, TB rarely uses the play fake, which would allow more room for the receivers and therefore he is not being as effective as he can be.

    Being objective however the stats tell me that he is averaging 4.3 yards a game and that is more than respectable. Furthermore BB has his back, and has declared his confidence on the RB, when BB rarely singles out players. If he does so they always deserve it. Our running game is third in the league, and there is not much game film on Maroney despite that. In other threads I have stated that BB has plays in his cupboard that are waiting for the playoffs. I think and hope that Maroney is our secret weapon.

    I understand the disappointment, I also have Maroney on my fantasy team, but please can we wait until the season is over before even debating whether he is a first string RB let alone a bust.
  30. Buchanty

    Buchanty Rookie

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    One other thing in Maroney's defense that I would like to add. I remember after Dillon retired that much was made about having to change the OL blocking schemes to adjust for Maroney's running style. In essence move to a zone blocking scheme. It is possible that the OL has been unable to make the necessary changes or know how to pick them up. Certainly it often appears like they are still blocking for Dillon, which is why Morris was more successful as he is closer to Dillon in running style.
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