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Illegal aliens come to America for FREE medical care

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mikey, Jun 17, 2007.

  1. mikey

    mikey Rookie

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    http://www.northjersey.com/page.php...3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MTQ5OTA3

    North Jersey hospitals struggle with medial tourists
    Sunday, June 10, 2007

    By MARY JO LAYTON
    STAFF WRITER

    North Jersey hospitals are treating increasing numbers of foreigners who travel to the U.S. for medical care -- and leave without paying their bill.

    Mindful that U.S. emergency rooms must take all comers, these medical tourists head from the airport straight to the hospital -- sometimes armed with CT scans and doctor's notes. As soon as they're well, they're back on the plane home.

    They're leaving hospitals -- and taxpayers -- on the hook for millions at a time when 40 percent of the state's hospitals are operating in the red.

    Hospital executives report numerous cases, including:

    # Holy Name Hospital provided $1.9 million in care to a 67-year-old woman from the Dominican Republic, an accident victim whose desperate son maxed out his credit cards to fly his mother here for treatment. The Teaneck hospital also lost hundreds of thousands caring for patients from Trinidad, Korea and the Philippines.

    # A woman from Peru showed up at Hackensack University Medical Center after her doctors at home found a growth on her liver. A patient from India flew in for open-heart surgery, and a man from Ecuador arrived in the emergency room in need of an operation for an aortic aneurysm. The cost for caring for the three patients: $515,000.

    # Several area hospitals have seen a growing number of foreign patients in their maternity wards -- including a doctor from Egypt -- who clearly have the means to pay. They get more than free care: Their newborns are granted citizenship.

    "We're beginning to hear more and more from hospitals about illegal aliens basically taking a flight in, being treated and taking off back home and leaving hospitals with the bill," said Ron Czajkowski, a vice president of the New Jersey Hospital Association.

    "There are apparently cases of individuals who figured out how to take advantage of the system," Czajkowski said.

    Many are encouraged to come by family members living in the area -- relatives who know the quality of cardiac or cancer care offered by the region's best hospitals.

    Some of the sick wage an epic effort to get here because their own country's health care system can't help them. They scrape together airfare, and they travel in dire health looking for treatment in the land of hope. In other cases, savvy patients select the hospital that specializes in treating their ailment, book a flight, then take a taxi straight to the emergency room -- keenly aware that federal law requires U.S. hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of a patient's legal status or ability to pay.

    .....
  2. Real World

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    You're just a racist. :p
  3. patsfan13

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    Granting automatic citizenship to new borns made sense when coming to America took many months, and when there was no welfare state to exploit. Now things have changed and our laws need to reflect these changes. Ultimatly the tax-payers get to foot the bill for the freeloaders. If American taxpaying citizens incured these expenses they would be wiped out fincially for the foreigners and illegal aliens it is a windfall.
  4. Harry Boy

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  5. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    One reason I like the National ID card with picture and finger print. No valid card with picture and print to validate ? Bye.
  6. PatsFanInVa

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    Is the proposed remedy that hospital ERs turn away non-citizens?

    I guess you could let in documented aliens, i.e., "green card" aliens.

    Otherwise, German tourists who are shot, but aren't quite dead in Florida (for example) shouldn't get care, as "medical tourists"?

    Should tourism in this country, "medical" or otherwise, be an at-risk proposition?

    A North Jersey paper, huh? Okay, we know the claimed impact of non-citizens getting care through hospitals. Since no alternative is mentioned, we can't do an impact study of the proposed remedy.

    But an area that close to NYC might think twice before banging the drum too loudly in favor of an inhospitable tourism climate -- and of course we won't mention the symbiotic relationship of undocumented aliens and "native-born" Americans, whether in NJ or elsewhere.

    Let's just stick to tourism. Think about it. No care for tourists? Would you travel to a country with no medical care for tourists?

    PFnV
  7. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    They should have a valid ID from another country and we (the hospital in question) should get money from the National Health Care that most countries out there have.
  8. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It's a good question. We shouldn't deny tourists medical care when they visit the country.

    I think the answer is to have stronger borders so there is less resentment about non-citizens getting care.
  9. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Based on my relatives from England, I am under the impression tourists can (do) buy short term health insurance when coming over. That way everyone's covered, this shouldn't be an issue.
  10. Real World

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    how about sealing the border so that the 20 million illegals aren't here to use the ER as their health insurance card. Then the couple of thousand problems like German tourists would be far easier to take. Instead we get foreign tourists, and 20 million illegals, all of which the taxpayer, and insurance payer (like myself to the tune of almost $500 a month) are footed the bill for.
  11. Real World

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    Exactly, send the bill to the foreign government. Imagine the bill we could send Mexico.
  12. Harry Boy

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  13. mikey

    mikey Rookie

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    Where is the OUTRAGE??

    How do you compare German tourists to a 67-year-old woman from Dominican Repubilc who came to America specifically to get free medical treatment that cost $1,900,000??

    Where is the OUTRAGE??


    .
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  14. PatsFanInVa

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    Weird, because the British have exactly the same controversy:

    http://society.guardian.co.uk/nhsperformance/story/0,,1008736,00.html

    This is the second website on which I read the term "health tourist," the first being right here on this thread.

    Some Brits are evidently campaigning for only residents (not citizens, by the way,) to be entitled to health care in Britain.

    Which strongly implies that is not the case today.

    It also makes one wonder why one bothers with health insurance. I mean, after all, we have two sets of facts:

    1. Brits are angry that non-residents get health care, because they're basically living like kings without paying into the system, and

    2. If you want health care, you take out travel/medical insurance, according to BFan's relatives. This suggests that with such insurance, you are treated even better.

    So the notion that you are "treated like a king" because you are a mooch may yet be true; but only if we stipulate that those with good insurance are treated as "emperors" or "gods."

    I have noticed over my forty-odd years that we have moved from claiming welfare recipients in the US are destroying medical care here, to claiming it's frivolous lawsuits, to claiming that it's health care scammers from Mexico.

    Tell ya what. Capitate any given lawsuit at the net worth of the chairman of the hospital's board of directors. Then if you want damages not to be "through the roof" and "absurd," you need only value the life of a patient as you would the life of your chairman -- and vice versa. That takes care of the frivolous lawsuit (or the countervaling claim that hospitals, like many american businesses, are topheavy.)

    If you don't have proof of residency or insurance, let's make it so you can't get non-emergency room care. Wait -- weren't these horrible wasters of American health resources admitted through an ER? And don't uninsured Americans routinely clog up ERs with non-emergency issues, specifically because this already is our modus operandi?????

    And by golly, get rid of welfare as we know it, and start a welfare to work... oh never mind.

    It seems that despite the facts on the ground, we continually find a new bogeyman.

    Here's a thought: Admit that people are entitled to the level of health care a society can provide, and make health care a national risk pool. That might help, if we're as concerned with the far greater number of uninsured Americans, as we are with these anecdotal cases of "health tourists."

    PS, I am open to having my leftoid eyes opened.

    Please quantify what proportion of all care dollars are spent on care for illegal aliens in this country.

    Please also quantify what proportion of all health care dollars are spent for non-ER care for illegal aliens.

    When we know these numbers, we can guage the extent of the problem beyond the anecdotal, and also face whether we need to tell tourists in general they are SOL if injured or taken ill in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    By the way, I think at some point we'll have to address the Gringo health tourists reaping the economic effects of Mexico's virtually lawsuit-free system:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19279850/

    I AM UP IN ARMS DISGUSTED SICK AND TIRED OF THE SCAMMERS WHO COME OVER HERE IN DROVES IN ONE LIMITED PARTICULAR ECONOMIC NICHE TO BEAT THE SYSTEM but I never really thought about this other niche over here...

    And notice: this is a wholesale phenomenon we're talking about. People don't set up hospitals to be scammed in New Jersey. They do complain when it happens in their hospital, however.

    This cross-border care arrangement with Mexico, by contrast, allows Americans their right to sue (regarding high-risk care,) while allowing them to also take advantage of far superior values for low-risk care. So the economic incentives have set up a cottage industry of health tourism, rather than these spotty and sensational cases.

    And who bears the brunt? The Mexican populace, who can not sue ANY health provider... etc. etc., yadda yadda, you know the drill.

    Those of us bent on exposing the incredibly parasitic nature of everybody except us, need to examine "us" a little more closely. And not just the "us" we consider "them," such as the poor, or one or another ethnic group, but the "us" that knows a bargain when we see one, and go over the Canadian border for our drugs and the Mexican border for our surgery.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  16. patsfan13

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    I'm afraid I don't see how the influx of paying US patients hurting the Mexican consumers.


    This certainly illustrates the effects of our Tort laws on our medical costs. Malpractice insurance is a boon for Tort lawyers and expensive for doctors and consumers.
  17. Real World

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    Don't you understand Mikey, you are a racist. The fact that your country is imploding from within, and that you & I, Joe middle class taxpayer, are footing the bill for the 3rd world, and for corporations who love the subsidized labor, is irrelevent. You're a big fat racist. :p

    All the while your favorite politicians, and most everyone else's, are going to vote to legalize the illegals. That will only ensure that you keep footing the bills for the lazy, and that another wave of illegals comes to put the final nail in the coffin. Why are they going to do that?

    FUTURE VOTES.

    One party knows they are going to be 4-1 for their party, and the other is therefore trying desparately to ensure otherwise, including selling it's soul to the devil. :mad:

    But hey, what do I know, I'm just a racist, homophobe, bigot, cheap, dumb, Chelsea living fool. :D
  18. Real World

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    Ditto. If they charge 1/5 because of insurance, then we've got some issues here at home.
  19. reflexblue

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    THIS ISN'T THE INVASION IT'S A PROBEING ACTION. THE REAL INVASION COMES LATER. YOU'll KNOW, YOU'LL GO TO THE E.R. AND BE SURROUNDED BE PEOPLE SPEAKING WITH ACCENTS,AH... WHAT A MINUTE,HEY MAYBE WE HAVE BEEN INVADED. :eek:

    REMEMBER THE OLD SAYING "THE UNITED STATES CAN ONLY BE DESTOYED FROM WITHIN"!!!!!
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    You're referring to the doctors, right?

    Your failure to see how medicotouristas from Texas hurt Mexico, when they go over in droves and take advantage of the fruits of a lower-cost, comparable-quality system, makes no sense to me.

    These guys don't want to so much as pay their dental insurance premiums in the US, and say as much in the article. They'd rather go to Mexico and get the lower-risk work (like basic dentistry) done cheap.

    The entire Mexican establishment benefits from cheaper labor, together with an inability to sue, across the entire Mexican risk pool. So these medicotouristas cheat the system, using Mexican services only when it suits them. Sure, since we don't really have a lot of services for the uninsured, Mexico is a good place to go for some people, regardless of the ailment. But plenty of medicotouristas are naturally scamming the Mexicans for low-cost, decent quality "maintenance work," and taking advantage of that entire larger Mexican risk pool, which is unable to sue for getting the wrong arm amputated, etc.

    So the Mexican people subsidize gringo medicotouristas, and they pay with their blood (which, believe it or not, is as real to those who lose the medical lottery, as your few tax dollars that actually have gone to these "medical tourists" are to you.)

    PFnV
  21. reflexblue

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    I'm refering to DR'S and pt's. I worked for over ten years in several med to large hospitals, in the E.R. and O.R., for anethesiolgy.It's not hard to find yourself surrounded by a large number of foriegn speaking people in the E.R. at Baystate medical center in Springfield ma. The post was ment as a joke,but the premise is true.In a inner city hospital the vast majority of pt's and many DR'S are foreigen. After over twenty years in the medical profession I for one would never go near Mexico for treatment
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  22. Harry Boy

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  23. PatsFanInVa

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    Reflex, didn't really mean it as a joke. It's not like every doctor is foreign-born, but certainly a prominent number.

    Ooo. Just realized another thing to be up in arms about. I am up in arms that OUR Indians and Pakistanis are saving Mexican lives...

    Harry DUDE. Meds are cheap in Canada... look into it.

    I'm not in the medical field, but my funny little hunny worked in an ER for years, and as EMS for a fire department for years. We're both sort of the opinion that medical care is something which in a perfect world would be removed from the private sphere... we just all need it.

    It's not a perfect world, and the medical industry, like all industries, revolves around the dollars and what the traffic will bear. It's only an emphasis on ethics (and laws backing them up) that keeps us from turning away our own poor and uninsured, never mind those who actually need care they can't get so bad, they will spend their life savings on a plane ticket (for example.)

    I dunno, I understand the point, and would feel like it was a dilemma if we had numbers saying this sort of thing accounted for 20% of our health care monies or something. But a list of bullet points for a half mill here and a mill there -- obviously representing the most shocking cases -- does little to persuade me that we are looking at much of an impact, considering the enormous costs everyday, native-born people routinely incur (against their insurance, unless they are very wealthy,) in the normal course of medical treatment.

    Just to let you guys know where I'm coming from... I am just not a big fan of villainizing really really sick people, unless we can really show the national issue is bigger than the humanitarian one. And on the pragmatic side, I want to hear the remedy. Sounds like something to shout about, but taking action would make us whatever the opposite of a tourist destination is.

    PFnV
  24. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I always get a kick out of the clairvoyance of many of the posters on this board,claiming to know how, or what I think. I try to never make judgments on my fellow posters unless there are blatantly obvious. I don't attempt to read between the lines,or project subjective personal opinions on others no matter what people's political positions. I am independant in my thinking and take each subject on a case by case basis, thereby not restricting myself to a constricting set of values.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  25. sdaniels7114

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    My tea leaves say you don't feel that way at all.
  26. Real World

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    You mean like seeing someone make a point, and then simply replying that he/she is a racist, bigot, homophobe, etc...or that they are cheap, dumb, rich, poor, etc... :D


    Don't worry flex, nobody does that in here. Well, at least it's never happened to me. :bricks:
  27. Real World

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    I hope it was green tea!
  28. PatsFanInVa

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    Just a vocabulary note: when they already know what you're going to say, that's clairvoyance. When they know what you think, it's garden-variety telepathy.

    PFnV
  29. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    YEA, WHAT YOU SAID OR AS SOMEONE ELSE SAID
    Bingo, I think we have bingo.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2007
  30. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I knew you were going to say that ,and your right. :rolleyes:

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