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Oswlek said:
Yes, it perturbs me that NE has looked discombobulated during their two major tests, but for now I can explain each one away. Another and I will have to admit that NE might be a very good, but not great team.

Dude, we are there now, if you ask me. No, I'm not panicking, I'm just saying.

There's no "steamroller" out there right now... the Colts are the closest thing, and their running game and run D don't allow that description. The Bears are, except when they aren't. And Denver frankly owns our asses, which has got to change.

That is why I just say we have work to do. We're good enough that we can be the best by season's end. And fortunately, the division crown shouldn't be too much of a challenge for us, so we can test all this in the postseason.

But if what we're seeing now is the peak of this team's powers, it's just not going to get us to the Super Bowl. A high bar, I know, but these are the Pats we're talking about.

PFnV
 
Actually, I must say that I still think that NE is possibly the best team in the league. While I was most certainly wildly disappointed with the Indy game, I think most overlook the fact that:

1) Manning played by far his best game ever against NE
2) NE turned it over 5 times, of which only 1 was forced and three were ints tipped balls... and even two of those were tipped by NE's players.
3) Brady played by far his worst game ever against Indy
4) Ne had about a half dozen "automatic first down" type penalties after getting a stop on 3rd down, two of which were complete crap.
5) Harrison was lost on the third defensive play of the game, and I think we can all agree it is harder to lose a great player midstream than having time to prepare for his absence.
6) Seymour was held often and those holds usually led to decent plays for Indy, including the pass to Wayned to the 1. BTW, when I say he was held, I don't mean "there is holding on nearly every play" type holds, but "Big Sey schools the LT and he in turn grabs the 93 on his back with two hands" holds. It was just as bad as anything NE did to Indy's WRs in the AFCCG, but you won't hear an outcry about it.
7) That was easily NE's worst special teams coverage of the last 5 seasons.

NE was still in the game at the end. Again, Indy deserved to win and they outplayed NE by a good margin. That said, I would be willing to put down $100 right now that NE will win if they meet in the playoffs, regardless of the location. That was a "Pitt in 2004" type game.
 
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chris_in_sunnyvale said:
A visitor from February 2010 told me that Brady and Bruschi had just won one for the thumb (no other holdovers from the '01 team still on the roster). Head coach Mike Vrabel was pleased with the SB44 over the Santa Clara 49ers and NFL MVP Alex Smith.

Regards,
Chris

They didn't tell you about the spectacular draft the team had in '07?
 
Oswlek said:
Actually, I must say that I still think that NE is possibly the best team in the league. While I was most certainly wildly disappointed with the Indy game, I think most overlook the fact that:

1) Manning played by far his best game ever against NE
2) NE turned it over 5 times, of which only 1 was forced and three were ints tipped balls... and even two of those were tipped by NE's players.
3) Brady played by far his worst game ever against Indy
4) Ne had about a half dozen "automatic first down" type penalties after getting a stop on 3rd down, two of which were complete crap.
5) Harrison was lost on the third defensive play of the game, and I think we can all agree it is harder to lose a great player midstream than having time to prepare for his absence.
6) Seymour was held often and those holds usually led to decent plays for Indy, including the pass to Wayned to the 1. BTW, when I say he was held, I don't mean "there is holding on nearly every play" type holds, but "Big Sey schools the LT and he in turn grabs the 93 on his back with two hands" holds. It was just as bad as anything NE did to Indy's WRs in the AFCCG, but you won't hear an outcry about it.
7) That was easily NE's worst special teams coverage of the last 5 seasons.

NE was still in the game at the end. Again, Indy deserved to win and they outplayed NE by a good margin. That said, I would be willing to put down $100 right now that NE will win if they meet in the playoffs, regardless of the location. That was a "Pitt in 2004" type game.
Come on. I'm sure a diligent Colts fan could come up with seven very plausible reasons why the Colts should have beaten N.E. by more than seven points. The gift first down on the QB sneak near midfield is one. The bottom line is that the Colts have beat the Patriots twice in a row, in Foxborough. And then there's Denver. I don't know how you can say NE is possibly the best team in the league, given their performance in the two losses. Maybe they can get there, but not now.
 
Excellent post Brownfan80, I am a new poster so I just wanted to start posting.
 
Fanfrom1960 said:
Come on. I'm sure a diligent Colts fan could come up with seven very plausible reasons why the Colts should have beaten N.E. by more than seven points. The gift first down on the QB sneak near midfield is one. The bottom line is that the Colts have beat the Patriots twice in a row, in Foxborough. And then there's Denver. I don't know how you can say NE is possibly the best team in the league, given their performance in the two losses. Maybe they can get there, but not now.

I said in my previous post that it is concerning that NE's worst two games were against the best competition, so I am not disputing that that goes against what I am saying.

I could go through the game to find things that Indy could have done to win by a wider margin, so I don't need a Colt fan to do that for me. That said, it is my firm contention that Indy played their best game of the year this past Sunday and won't play any better in a rematch. At the same time, NE made a myriad of uncharacteristic mistakes, mistakes that I believe will not be made next time.

Did I say that NE was the better team last week? No. I am not oblivious to what goes on, but I have the ability to look at the bigger picture. Did you feel that Pitt was a much better team after they trounced NE in 2004?

Lastly, Indy's win here last year has no bearing on anything. NE was a shell of itself at the time and to count that game in any way would be akin to factoring a late season game against Philly last year into any critical thinking.

No matter what anyone says, I feel that NE will win a rematch if they are fortunate to play one this season.
 
Great post.

We could have added Graham's fragility and Harrison injuring Seymour before he got hurt himself.

That said -- the Pats have to overtake at least two teams (and presumably also beat one or both of them outright in the post-season) before they win the Super Bowl. And of the two, at least Denver has a lot of upside for their performance year to date.
 
Great post.

We could have added Graham's fragility and Harrison injuring Seymour before he got hurt himself.

That said -- the Pats have to overtake at least two teams (and presumably also beat one or both of them outright in the post-season) before they win the Super Bowl. And of the two, at least Denver has a lot of upside for their performance year to date.

I guess now we could add Seau to that list. Getting your arm snapped like a dead tree branch counts towards the point. lol.

I think this post is still pretty valid at 9-3, considering all the negativity that's cropped back up after two ugly WINS.
 
Great thread BF80,As Usual....
 
Great thread BF80,As Usual....


Thanks Pats4Ever, it never got that many views back when I first posted it, but I figured it couldn't hurt a few of these 'manic depressives' to read it again now. I never did get to read through all the replies as many of them were made during the 'blackout days'. I'll have to do that here in a minute. Oswlek was busy in this thread, and he's always a good read.
 
Thanks Pats4Ever, it never got that many views back when I first posted it, but I figured it couldn't hurt a few of these 'manic depressives' to read it again now. I never did get to read through all the replies as many of them were made during the 'blackout days'. I'll have to do that here in a minute. Oswlek was busy in this thread, and he's always a good read.

Tonight is the first time I saw the thread my friend,My apologies if it had been here a while as I believe I may have missed it.It is a fabulous read and much needed as we are at a point where our bandwagoners are beginning to forget what this Patriots team has endured during our recent success in terms of tight games and shoddy play.I for one,think we are in a good place.4th seed and tied for 3rd in the AFC is nothing to frown at.I,whether we are 9-3 or 0-9 am and will forever be.Loyal to the Patriots.The Cold New England Oceanspray runs deep in my veins and nothing will change that.
 
Tonight is the first time I saw the thread my friend,My apologies if it had been here a while as I believe I may have missed it.It is a fabulous read and much needed as we are at a point where our bandwagoners are beginning to forget what this Patriots team has endured during our recent success in terms of tight games and shoddy play.I for one,think we are in a good place.4th seed and tied for 3rd in the AFC is nothing to frown at.I,whether we are 9-3 or 0-9 am and will forever be.Loyal to the Patriots.The Cold New England Oceanspray runs deep in my veins and nothing will change that.

Yeah I posted it at around the bye week, I believe. The original post states that we were 6-2 at the time, so I guess it was after the Colts and before the Jets.

It's still quite a testament to this team that they are 9-3. They're still overcoming all the things I mentioned, in addition to the injuries they've piled up since that time.

I predicted 11-5 in the offseason, but if we beat Miami then I think I was far undershooting that estimate.

One game at a Time though, One game at a Time.
 
Considering I wrote this on 8/11/06, when much of that had already transpired:



I can't say that I am surprised at either NE's success or their large AFCE lead. ;)

That said, I think you did a fabulous job of helping us shift our focus from the minor negative points to the overall positive position this team is in. I stil am not convinced that NE isn't the best team in the league. Yes, it perturbs me that NE has looked discombobulated during their two major tests, but for now I can explain each one away. Another and I will have to admit that NE might be a very good, but not great team.

Thankya Oswlek. I do enjoy your posts, so it's nice to go back and read a compliment to one of mine from you.

I'm not sure that the Pats are the best team in the league, but I think that they're capable of being the best team on the field in any given game.

I think they have more of that ability than anyone else in the league.
 
Excellent post Brownfan80, I am a new poster so I just wanted to start posting.

Welcome! I was a bit delayed in posting it due to the site problems burying my post, but welcome and thank you.
 
No matter what anyone says, I feel that NE will win a rematch if they are fortunate to play one this season.


A blue TON of things 'went right' for the Colts in the first meeting. I agree with you that it's improbable that the same thing happens twice, yet in our last two meetings the games came out with a Colts win (in different ways, yes, and for different reasons, yes... but when we say 'all that counts is the W', then that goes both ways).

I think that the Patriots certainly have to play better than they have been the last few weeks in order to last in the playoffs. I also think that if any team is equipped to make that sort of turnaround, it's the Patriots with Tom Brady at the helm.

Great stuff in your replies Oswlek, as usual.
 
Thankya Oswlek. I do enjoy your posts, so it's nice to go back and read a compliment to one of mine from you.

I'm not sure that the Pats are the best team in the league, but I think that they're capable of being the best team on the field in any given game.

I think they have more of that ability than anyone else in the league.

I agree with this. As I said in the post quoted, I could explain away the first two losses, but the Jet one really worried me. That was a game that NE should have won easily, not just because NE is a much better team than NY, but because it essentially would have ended the AFCE race.

I thought NE looked pretty terrible this past week, but it didn't bother me all that much because every team has a down week or two against blah competition during a season. I will admit that I might think otherwise had NE lost, but I never really felt like they would. The Jet game, though, I knew NE was going to lose midway through the second quarter when NY scored their first TD.

I don't subscribe to the thought that the Chicago game was ugly. There were a few ugly plays, but NE thoroughly outclassed the Bears, IMHO. If not for a few dubious calls, NE wins that game by 2 TDs even factoring in 5 TOs.

This is a very talented team, but they aren't as tight as their predecessors were at this stage of the game.

BTW, I was joking with the whole 2008 is great campaign, but seriously, being a Pats fan is a lot of fun right now, and NE is set up very nicely for the next few years. If NE hadn't won a few SBs in the last 5 years (and therefore, it looks like a downward progression when they don't dominate), most analysts would look at NEs roster, coaches and draft picks and conclude that they are one of the teams most likely to be the next dynasty.
 
I agree with this. As I said in the post quoted, I could explain away the first two losses, but the Jet one really worried me. That was a game that NE should have won easily, not just because NE is a much better team than NY, but because it essentially would have ended the AFCE race.

I completely agree with this. I thought it was very 'off' that we couldn't pull that game out. That is a game that the past SB teams would have won. That particular game reminded me much more of 2002 than 2003 or 2004. And I don't mean in the way it was played, I mean from the fact that it was an important game that could have really salted the season away more or less, and the Patriots laid an egg. The 'great' teams of this era simply did not do that.

I thought NE looked pretty terrible this past week, but it didn't bother me all that much because every team has a down week or two against blah competition during a season. I will admit that I might think otherwise had NE lost, but I never really felt like they would. The Jet game, though, I knew NE was going to lose midway through the second quarter when NY scored their first TD.

I had the same feeling during the Jets game. I could feel the loss coming and I hated feeling it and then seeing it happen. I so wanted the Patriots to prove my doubting Thomas ass wrong, but they didn't.

I think that's what I was most shocked about.

Honestly, I didn't get to watch much of the Lions game because I was at a wedding, but the few parts I did catch I felt a sinking feeling. I was very relieved to hear that we'd won it.

I don't subscribe to the thought that the Chicago game was ugly. There were a few ugly plays, but NE thoroughly outclassed the Bears, IMHO. If not for a few dubious calls, NE wins that game by 2 TDs even factoring in 5 TOs.

The Bears game was a weird one. The offense looked lost half the time, but the defense played lights out for the most part. I guess you have to chalk that up to the Bears D, but still. I think you're right about the few blown calls though, those really changed the game and they were horrible calls. That defensive holding on Ellis was an absolute joke.

This is a very talented team, but they aren't as tight as their predecessors were at this stage of the game.

Absolutely right. I think games like the Bengal game show us that this team is capable of great things, but then the past few weeks show us that they've still not put it all together yet. They still have time to crank things up a bit before the playoffs, but at a time in the season where we're used to seeing the Pats play their best football, they're still fine-tuning. It'll be a nerve inducing playoff run, I'll tell you that much.

BTW, I was joking with the whole 2008 is great campaign, but seriously, being a Pats fan is a lot of fun right now, and NE is set up very nicely for the next few years. If NE hadn't won a few SBs in the last 5 years (and therefore, it looks like a downward progression when they don't dominate), most analysts would look at NEs roster, coaches and draft picks and conclude that they are one of the teams most likely to be the next dynasty.

That's very interesting and I'd have to agree with you. I hope like hell you're right. I'm not sure how realistic it is in the grand scheme of the NFL, but then nothing that this team has done since 2000 has been that realistic, yet we've watched it all unfold.

Go pats.
 
that was the best thread i ever read, totally awesome man.
 
Don't doubt BrownFan80. I got this in my PMs this afternoon. :eek:

futurepm.jpg
 
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