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If You Lived in Gaza What Would You Do?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Dec 28, 2008.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not a thread to bash Israel or the Jewish. Not defending the rocket attacks into Israel by Hamas. I just don't understand how the world can sit by with the human rights abuses that are the life of the Palestinians. These people live in poverty, sickness, they are malnourished and depressed. Nobody is right or wrong religiously ... but Israel for the most part deals with a very, very harsh hand.

    I'm no expert on the area and I'm probably making a mistake posting this thread. Just wondering what others think of the seriously messed up situation that is known as Gaza ... sounds like a version of hell to me.
    Hamas is not really a government for the people. Iran and others use Gaza to provoke Israel. Israel won't deal fairly for a multitude of reasons. So these people who live there are pawns ... that's way messed up ... there can be no solution until the people become free of being political pawns

    Like I said ... I'm no expert ... Israel wants Hamas gone and Iran can keep hamas there forever ... how can anyone say a solution is possible?

    If I lived in Gaza would I lob a few rockets?
    I think I would ... what is there to live for when living in Gaza?
     
  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's hard to blame an individual living in Gaza from lobbing a rocket. I also know were I an Israeli and called on to retaliate, it would be easy to do so. Anybody who does not understanding the misery of the occupation just has not looked at the situation very closely.

    I don't see much to disagree with here on a gut level, Icy. It's not about the religions or who's right and who's wrong. It's about ending the occupation for the sake of both parties. This does not mean "ta daaaa it's solved," it means both sides have to be capable of negotiating for peace. However for the past few years neither side has seemed interested in peace.

    And as you say the everyday Gazan is a pawn. And when you're told you can be a pawn or a holy warrior, which sounds better?

    Continual war is neither a natural nor a sustainable state. I hope for a 2-state solution by 2016... but I have been hoping this for a long time.

    PFnV
     
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    If i lived in Gaza i think i'd duck.
     
  4. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    very true. what sounds better? pawn or patriotic hero granted we have it a ton better here
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What always gets me in these types of story is that Israel good and Palestinians bad... unfortunately there is a lot of grey here, Israel has done its share food and fuel deprivation, tearing down of homes etc.

    I agree with PVA things need to change and a different model needs to be looked at..
     
  6. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The people of GAza, elected a terrorist organization as there government, and now we are suppose to feel bad for them, because Israel is responding to the terrorists attacks?

    That would be like the people of Massachusetts crying when Obama raises your taxes.
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Since 9/11 the "Muslim" has become the American Far Left Liberal's "dearest friend" Israel had better take note of this as America now has a very liberal administration about to come into power and I doubt very much if the Pelosi Gang or the New White House will be to concerned over what happens to Israel.
     
  8. Turk

    Turk Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Peace would have been achieved a long time ago had it not been for those few, from both sides and more, that benefit so greatly from this bloody conflict.

    That's why they keep pouring gasoline into the fire.

    If peace were to come, they would lose tons of $$$ and power.

    All over the world; same scenario, same actors, same lines, just different costumes.

    As to your question, Icy; I think you and PFV are right on.
    The every day victim in Gaza is getting it from all sides, including the UN for its pathetic lack of action, and finally after losing his child, grabbing the nearest gun.

    Isn't it curious though, that in that environment of total devastation and famine when one cannot find the most basic of human needs, he can very easily find the latest style weapon or bomb?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2008
  9. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    I thought about that FTW ... perhaps they felt they had no other option considering the circumstances they live in.
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    FTW: I agree with you Hamas is a terrorist organization. As such, and for other obvious reasons, I would never vote for them.

    They did not, however, run on terrorism. Everybody knew that came with the territory, but that was not the platform. Neither was Islamist theocracy. Their platform, believe it or not, was social services and an end to corruption.

    People are not so different as we like to believe when we are drawing the battle lines.

    You and I may agree, and I may disagree with Turk, were we to default to the usual argument about which side to be on. But by now I think it's just become obvious that the two sides are the war side and the peace side.

    What hurts to see are the everyday people being squeezed in the occupation, and the everyday people caught in the crossfire on either side.

    On one side you have the "right" principal of aiming for the bad guys, and hitting everyday people only by mistake... combined with the "wrong" principal of occupation. On the other side you have the "wrong" tactic of aiming for the everyday people... combined with the internationally recognized "right" principal of national self-determination.

    This isn't about Muslims being the darlings of the American left. This is about a situation that many of us have watched, understood, and wanted to see changed for decades-- for the sake of all parties. I have no patience for grief tourists who want to jump on the latest bandwagon with a wafer-thin understanding of the politics in one place or another. I also have no patience for right wing dilletantes who want everything to be a hate fest.

    Weird but true story:

    I went to the newspaper box today to pick up the Wash. Post. It may be significant that the price of the paper went from 50 cents to 75. I put in 2 quarters, pulled on the front of the box, and nothing happened. I muttered maybe too loudly a mild epithet, then realized I needed the 3rd quarter. I then put in the third quarter, opened the box, and got the paper.

    I turned to walk to the local lunch joint, and got maybe 2 steps when, for the first time in my life, for no apparent reason, a guy missing a couple of teeth with some pretty worn clothing and no air of having anywhere to go spoke Hebrew to me. Swear to God. He said just one word: Shalom.

    Well one of 2 things had happened. Either he'd ethnically identified me on sight and wanted to hear "Shalom" back, or he'd ethnically identified me on sight, and was ironically referencing the cover of the paper I'd just bought. The front page picture was a photo of gaza on fire.

    I said "Shalom" back, and only realized a moment later that I had a great opportunity to make a poignant comment despite my paucity of Hebrew. I knew enough that I could have said "Lo Shalom," and shown him the cover of the Post.

    ("Lo Shalom" = "No Peace.")
     
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    GREAT POST!

    [​IMG]

    If I was a Gazan, I would kill every Israeli I could. No doubt about it. I'd be wrong, but there is no option. And then, I would kill myself. That's pretty much what happens there, right? Who would ever want to live in the Middle East? What a sh!thole!.

    BTW...Isn't that chick in the front absolutely gorgeous? WOW!
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Then you'd be just another brick in the wall, just another runner on the treadmill of thousands of years.

    The real future belongs to the people on all sides who are brave enough to transcend and transform their societies towards peace and mutual respect.

    I have more admiration for the Gorbachevs, DeKlerks, Sadats and Rabins of this world than the Revolutionaries. THEY were the ones who could have continued very comfortably in the systems that rewarded them - - but they didn't - - they made the brave transformational and transcendental decisions to say that their systems were morally and ethically wrong and needed to reach out to their enemies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's so much money to be made by arms producers. All they have to do is get a war started, and then the radicals get in power, and there's more and more spending on arms until the men are exhausted. The radical Saddam provoked the radical Saddam which caused the radical Ahmenjedab to get elected which got Hezbelloh all to the hilt, which provoked the radical Israeli's .... and the game continues. The sad thing is that Obama is silent, when he should start to challenge the military industrial complex. But, the economy is bad, and war is good for business.
     
  14. Connecticut

    Connecticut Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #87 Jersey

    I'm an immigrant from the former Yugoslavia, and if any of you know the situation, there was a bloody war there that ended in genocide and concentration camps.

    Let me tell you, choosing extremism and electing nationalistic and extremist politicians is very easy if the conditions are right, and in occupied Gaza, believe me, they are ripe for that.

    If Israel seriously wants peace and prosperity, and safe borders, they have to stop treating the occupied Palestinians specifically that, occupied Palestinians. I'm sure they can see the humanity in them, just as many independent Israeli activists and humanitarians do, that smuggle food and other necessities to Palestinian families that need them.

    I'm not saying the rocket attacks and general attacks on civilians are ok, I'm saying that extreme conditions breed extreme behavior and that Israel needs to show its better side by perhaps feeding and clothing the Palestinians instead of blocking their roads, and tearing down their houses.

    Respect and peace leads to respect and peace, and given an open hand, any Palestinian logical enough would take it.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Most importantly, respect and peace allow peacemakers to assume leadership positions, while war allows warmongers to assume leadership positions. The warmongers in every country are clamoring to kill someone. It's bloodlust.
     
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  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Good post ... I have always said personal stories posted here in the forum are of great importance to those of us dependant on the media.

    So with Israel blasting the tunnels perhaps they are expecting the people to turn on Hamas? Israel is massed on the border and bombing as many tunnels as possible. I know weapons and people are smuggled through those tunnels but much food and trade goods go through them also. So the people will be more hungry and whatever economy exists will collapse even furthur. Seems to me this is what they expect to achieve ... pretty inhumane strategy really and of course rather sad and cruel.
     
  17. Connecticut

    Connecticut Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #87 Jersey

    First I'd like to say that there is no "conspiracy" to get rid of the Palestinians as many people believe. Also, there isn't a widespread hatred of Jews among the Palestinians. The Israeli media is very critical of it's government and various political leaders and organizations all have differing ideas. However, I will say that the government has done its fair share of holding the Palestinians in quarantine and hoping for the best.

    Just like an anaconda snake does to its prey. Living conditions in occupied Palestine are horrid to say the least. Running water is scarce and the economy is basically collapsed so jobs are very scarce and hard to find. Check points everywhere.

    I think the Israeli people need to wake up and elect politicians that will deal fairly with the Palestinians and offer them better living conditions. Ease up on the choke hold you have on these people and they'll react fairly, I promise you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Drink a lot of beer. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me. :D
     
  19. Connecticut

    Connecticut Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #87 Jersey

    They barely have water, let alone beer. :eek:
     
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I need to correct my earlier post: Israel has not been in occupation of Gaza for some time. It has, however, closed off access in and out of Gaza at will, also for quite some time.

    I just hate to leave inaccurate info out there.

    PFnV
     

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