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If you guys/gals like art you'll love this Rembrandt.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patradomous, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

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    #87 Jersey

  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Matty says thanks for pimping his site.. predictable.

    This is a painting, and according to the artist he hopes to make some type of profit.. so he would like to thank you for pimping it, however he does not understand socialism..

    The right is incapable of athought, and needs their leaders to tell them what to think....
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  3. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm neither left nor right. But every year the myth that the founding fathers and constitution are perfect and transcend time gets more out of hand.
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Remember all the twittering and giiggling about freedom when the Liberal Moonbats at an Art Museum put A Jar Of Piss With Jesus Floating In It on display.

    IT'S ART (thats what they said)

    This is a great painting, freedom is a wonderful thing, is it not.

    GOD WILLING
     
  5. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'll tell you what.All I know is how worse things get the further you get away from it.Or contort or twist the true meanings of it.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have you studied the writings and religious beliefs of our founding fathers?? Their intent and meaning is much different than what is being sold to the right wing..

    For example, Washington, Jefferson, Ben Franklin to name a few, they viewed knowing god through reason in this case through nature, not the bible or faith. They were known as Deists. John Adams and John Quincy Adams were Unitarians.. which is not bible based.

    From Ben Franklin...

    They also believed in a strong separation of church and state, having descended from the English rule the last thing in the world they wanted to replicate was church becoming involved in the operations of government.

    So when you hear all this garbage about returning to the way things were according to our founding fathers, it is not about reverting to a bible based or faith based religion.. it is something completely different.

    The only mention of god in the constitution is here:

    In the declaration of independence, there is a reference to Deism..

    And here:

    The point being our founding fathers deliberately ommitted references to god in our declaration of independence and our constitution.. the extreme right wants you to believe otherwise..
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  7. Drewski

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    Not to mention many of the founding fathers believed in intelligent life beyond our planet as a scientific ideal (plurality of worlds).

    That belief in and of itself flies in the face of most mainstream religious teachings - or at least the modern version of those teachings.
     
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    That's not what the artwork was, and the "liberal moonbat" artist was a Catholic.

    Who cares about facts, though, right, harry?

    As for the Constitution, Obama certainly has taken liberties, though not in terms of the unthinking righty meme of "socialism." I'm wondering whether the "artist" painted anything similar with Bush, since he took similar liberties (and did so first).
     
  9. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    eh, I'm not sure how many people actually make that claim or even imply it.

    Instead, what I see are partisans on both sides who look to the founding fathers when it supports their point of view but are quick to dismiss them when it doesn't. And even more than that, people who somehow view the "founding fathers" as if they were a monolithic group with one point of view we should look to.
     
  10. DarrylS

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    All of this has gotten so muddled that many of the facts are forgotten about, instead there is a reliance on myths and hearsay.
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    You mean like blacks actually being humans with rights, rather than 3/5 of a person, and women being able to vote?


    "true meanings" -- I wonder what kind of contorting or twisting you would do to determine that...
     
  12. Drewski

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    Not that I am saying anything we didn't already know, but it is muddled on purpose.

    The collection of minds coming together during the founding of our country is unlike any event before or since. You had a group of extremely intelligent, socially important men who literally staked their entire "person" on an ideal.

    America was and still is a social experiment unlike any other in Human history.

    "God" to them wasn't a [enter Religion here] God. It was a God in the sense of a Creator above all, across the vastness of the universe; the one who pushed atoms together to start a process we call "Life"; not only here, but in all likelihood, elsewhere too.

    There is evidence throughout our history that says to me that "God" isn't God in a Christian/Muslim/Jewish sense, but in a "Natural" sense above all of them. Read up on Washington's vision at Valley Forge if you are so inclined. The God and Angels in that record have nothing to do with Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  13. nabwong

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    That's my point though. Even if you use it to support your ideals, you still need to understand the context of that time. Man's ideas never transcend time because we are bound in time.

    To my observation, because change is inevitable, the extreme conservatives reject change and the extreme liberals radicalize change. There just needs to be responsible change. Again, change is inevitable, the universe is expanding, the earth is shifting, and we all need to adapt but at a rational, responsible way. Ideas, and that includes man's constitution and laws cannot be outside that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  14. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By rational observation...

    1. We are all humans
    2. We live in 1 universe
    3. We are bound by the same time and space
    4. How can we conclude that there is a different Creator for each of us?

    That is just our perception. Muslim, Christian, Jews, Buddhist, Pagan etc, we all are one. What we have done is take ownership of the Creator. Such arrogance. We don't even question the things we believe (mostly because we have been indoctrinated by it from an early age). I am not saying religion is wrong at all. I am trying to be a practicing muslim. But to say that muslims are the chosen people or jews are the chosen ones, etc, is BOGUS. Every religion started out the same until man took ownership of it. That's why are have multiple messengers. But the messengers have to bring a consistent message that does not contradict the previous one or future one, or the universe.

    What human beings have to do is come together and weed out all the bull**** from history, tradition and culture. Then we can see the world for what it is and not what we've made it to be. Religion cannot contradict the universe and vice versa because again, the same Creator.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  15. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thats why you have amendments.
    A twisted contortion of Const. would be forcing religous institutions by unelected officials to provide drugs under the guise of "womans health."Against their basic beliefs and constitutional protections.
    Even those institutions who are self insured.

    By the way its these same religious institutions that paved the way for the above chanes in the constitution. And it was through public opinion that these were changed not mandates by unelected officials.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Your comment was, "...All I know is how worse things get the further you get away from it..."


    The claim that they must provide drugs is a twisted contortion in and of itself.


    The catholic church did that?

    Religious institutions certainly have played a role in positive changes in the nation and in the Consitution -- just as religious individuals and individuals and institutitons that were not religious played a role... and just as religious institutions have played a negative role...


    It was through public opinion as well as government action. Public opinion along would have accomplished little -- and, in fact, did accomplish little. Government action wouldn't have taken place on its own, either. The two tend to go hand in hand if you look at our nation's history.
     
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This makes no sense particularly as the Constitution is silent on religious institutions and encourages separation of them from the state.
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Um, that's why the Constitution has amendments.
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is still no mention of God..
     
  20. Patradomous

    Patradomous In the Starting Line-Up

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    #87 Jersey

    Freedom of religion is the first amendment to the const.
    Catholic or other denomination schools are an extension of that denominations tenents and beliefs.
     

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