**IF** Wilfork is gone, do we go to a 4-3?

[alvinnf]

We are going to see more 43 whether Vince is here or not. They need a 5 tech. DE and an OLB for the 34. The best way to bring a young OLB along is to gradually stand him up. We'll take a DE early and he'll have to get on the field allot quicker than S. Crable. The best way to do it is in the 43. Vince could dominate in any front.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I don't understand why people think the Pats will get crushed in a 4-3. 75% of the league runs a 4-3. The team may need to make some modifications in how they draft and sign players so that they fit a 4-3 but it's not like it's impossible.

i think they can run a 4-3 but a 2 gap 4-3 maybe better vs the run but i think they would be even worst at rushing the QB im all for moveing to the 4-3 if they play more one gap.

 

[alvinnf]

i think they can run a 4-3 but a 2 gap 4-3 maybe better vs the run but i think they would be even worst at rushing the QB im all for moveing to the 4-3 if they play more one gap.

They have good gap and a half guys, more so than one gap.

 

[jbb9s]

Wouldn't have drafted 2 NTs last year if we were planning on moving to the 4-3 without Wilfork, IMO. Looks to me like we're staying 3-4 no matter what happens. More 4-3? Definitely, but I'd still expect a 3-4 base.

how many snaps did Brace play last year? He has plenty of time to develop into a nice player down the line, but anyone who is counting on him to contribute are the same folks that thought wilhite and wheatly were the cornerbacks of the future going into last year.

 

[SanAngeloState]

We should play a big 4-3 ie with guys like Warren and Wright at DE and guys like Brace, Pryor at DT. Then have TBC and crable as kind of a rush LB. Burgess is gone/useless. Guyton as OLB and Mayo as ILB.

What do you think of THAT?

I agree that TBC is too small to play 4-3 end.

 

[RobertWeathers]

how many snaps did Brace play last year? He has plenty of time to develop into a nice player down the line, but anyone who is counting on him to contribute are the same folks that thought wilhite and wheatly were the cornerbacks of the future going into last year.

No one has the slightest idea what to expect from Brace next year. That's the problem. If he performed like a 2004 Wilfork or even 2009 Pryor, most of us would still be concerned about losing VW, but not panicking....

 

[satz]

We should play a big 4-3 ie with guys like Warren and Wright at DE and guys like Brace, Pryor at DT. Then have TBC and crable as kind of a rush LB. Burgess is gone/useless. Guyton as OLB and Mayo as ILB.

What do you think of THAT?

I agree that TBC is too small to play 4-3 end.

This is what we basically did. problem no pass rush. We need speed as well as strength in the DE.Without speed you are bring your Coverage LB in for rush which mean all your hot reads are clean with no coverage.

 

[JMarr]

The assumption is that the Pats would get a true 43 DE like Peppers or Kampman. They would play him on 1 side, play Warren on the other side on 1st downs, and have Brace/Pryor/Wright at DT. Obviously, there would be some infusion of young talent through the draft - either at DT, DE, or both along with perhaps some cheap veteran backup (like a Kearse, Burgess, Ferguson, etc.)

I think the problems you brought up exists whether we play 34 or 43. At the moment, assuming Wilfork comes back, we have a hole at RDE (Seymour's old spot) and both OLB positions. You are not going to get a starting OLB in the draft. And the FA market is bare. Even if we bring TBC back ( which I really hope we do), he should be used only in pass-rushing situations for the exact reasons you brought up.

Bingo. If Vince leaves there is no way in hell we play 3-4. You've already traded arguably the best 3-4 DE in the league in Seymour and last season showed that we don't have anyone ready to replace him.

We currently have NO 3-4 OLBs who are even viable options (maybe AD, but there's far too much uncertainty about him). Who is BB planning to plug in at those two spots--a rookie and someone like Burgess or Woods? ....Crable? Somehow I don't think BB is going keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes in the front seven this year.

 

[woolster22]

Thats sorta what I was thinking. I just don't think it would be possible to get the necessary OLBs in NE to run the 34 effectively. Maybe bring in Gocong, hope McKenzie steps it up and move Guyton outside? That seems like an awful lot of projection, rather than going off of past performance with a known result. That still leaves a big question mark at DE/NT (since this is all based on Wilfork getting shipped out). In any case, this will be a busy offseason once things get rolling. I expect a few moves to clarify exactly wtf will be going on here in the first week of FA. Should be a fun one!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe bring in Gocong, hope McKenzie steps it up and move Guyton outside? !

Very concerned w/ Guyton's ability at the point of attack and ability to set the edge/contain the outside running game. OLB is a 3-4 is not his cup of tea IMO.

Sideline to sideline is not an issue.

 

[makoute]

Bingo. If Vince leaves there is no way in hell we play 3-4. You've already traded arguably the best 3-4 DE in the league in Seymour and last season showed that we don't have anyone ready to replace him.

We currently have NO 3-4 OLBs who are even viable options (maybe AD, but there's far too much uncertainty about him). Who is BB planning to plug in at those two spots--a rookie and someone like Burgess or Woods? ....Crable? Somehow I don't think BB is going keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes in the front seven this year.

The Pats don't exactly have 4-3 DEs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Very concerned w/ Guyton's ability at the point of attack and ability to set the edge/contain the outside running game. OLB is a 3-4 is not his cup of tea IMO.

And not Mayo's ability? Even accounting for his knee injury, I still saw Mayo struggling every bit as much as Guyton and probably, which is why I believe Guyton had the better year.

Guyton, like Mayo, is transitioning from 4-3 OLB to BB multi-purpose LB and is making good progress. Neither are complete 3-down ILBs like Tedi at his peak, both are getting better at using their hands and reading their keys and I've seen no reason to believe Bill is dissatisfied with their development. I'd be very surprised if BB were to make any major effort to acquire ILBs this season.

 

[woolster22]

Very concerned w/ Guyton's ability at the point of attack and ability to set the edge/contain the outside running game. OLB is a 3-4 is not his cup of tea IMO.

Sideline to sideline is not an issue.

That probably i true. I was just throwing out an idea, didn't really think it through all the way. That is sort of why I was thinking a 43 might help the backer's out a bit. Keep some heat off of Guyton/Mayo and let them roam sideline to sideline, using their speed to make some plays.

 

[muzz]

We should play a big 4-3 ie with guys like Warren and Wright at DE and guys like Brace, Pryor at DT. Then have TBC and crable as kind of a rush LB. Burgess is gone/useless. Guyton as OLB and Mayo as ILB.

What do you think of THAT?

I agree that TBC is too small to play 4-3 end.

Robert Mathis plays DE and he's only 250, Freeney is only 268

 

[RobertWeathers]

And not Mayo's ability? Even accounting for his knee injury, I still saw Mayo struggling every bit as much as Guyton and probably, which is why I believe Guyton had the better year..

I think Mayo is better at standing RBs up than Guyton. Pass coverage is about equal w/ a slight edge to Guyton.

I'm giving Mayo a pass for last year. He showed some flashes from last year's form but that knee was not right. I'm convinced of this.

Guyton, like Mayo, is transitioning from 4-3 OLB to BB multi-purpose LB and is making good progress. Neither are complete 3-down ILBs like Tedi at his peak, both are getting better at using their hands and reading their keys and I've seen no reason to believe Bill is dissatisfied with their development. I'd be very surprised if BB were to make any major effort to acquire ILBs this season.

Agreed. Neither LB operates at a high-level on all 3 downs. In time, I believe they both will.

 

[bucky]

That probably i true. I was just throwing out an idea, didn't really think it through all the way. That is sort of why I was thinking a 43 might help the backer's out a bit. Keep some heat off of Guyton/Mayo and let them roam sideline to sideline, using their speed to make some plays.

The Pats tried to use Guyton at OLB at Seattle in 2008, out of sheer necessity. He got completely washed out in the running game and Colvin was put in after a few series (his first week after being resigned), which actually had a part in stabilizing the D a little.

If the Pats were to switch to a 43, they'd have to get at least 1 DE and possibly 2. Which is a lot easier than getting 2 OLBs for the 34. They'd also probably need a SAM LB, like Bullock. But that's a role that Guyton may be able to grow into, or you can draft a guy like AJ Edds.

Either way you go, there's a lot of work to do both in FA and the draft. It just seems like given the current state of the team, free agency, and the draft, it's easier to fill out a 43 roster.

 

[JMarr]

The Pats don't exactly have 4-3 DEs.

I don't know about that--TBC and Burgess are both better with their hand on the ground IMO. Don't know Jarvis Green's status, but he's definitely more suited as a 4-3 end. Both Warren or Wright might be capable of being good 4-3 ends. (correct me if I'm totally off base there).

However, what the Pats really need is that proverbial dominant pass rusher and I think it will be easier to grab a 4-3 guy like Peppers or a stud in the draft who can into the lineup ASAP.