If Wes Welker Walks, Patriots Have Some Serious Work to Do

[MoLewisrocks]

Wait your going to resign Welker and franchise Talib? Where's this magic cap space coming from ? Your wahzoo?

Extending Brady and perhaps Wilfork and restructuring Mankins. Personally I wouldn't tag Talib, but Kontra could. And he'd still have double digit cap space left.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wait your going to resign Welker and franchise Talib? Where's this magic cap space coming from ? Your wahzoo?

It's been explained in multiple threads now that there are a handful of ways to free up cap space to make this happen. You've been in those threads. Regardless, I've made it known that my wish is to be able to cut ties with Talib, either by testing the FA market or by looking to the draft. I've also made it known that I believe Dennard has CB1 capability. But let's not pretend like franchising Talib and signing Welker to that kind of contract is impossible. On the contrary, it's very possible.

 

[Jimke]

It's been explained in multiple threads now that there are a handful of ways to free up cap space to make this happen. You've been in those threads. Regardless, I've made it known that my wish is to be able to cut ties with Talib, either by testing the FA market or by looking to the draft. I've also made it known that I believe Dennard has CB1 capability. But let's not pretend like franchising Talib and signing Welker to that kind of contract is impossible. On the contrary, it's very possible.

I don't think that posters fully realize the impact of losing Welker, Vollmer,
and Talib. They are high quality players and the team will be much
weaker if they leave.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't think that posters fully realize the impact of losing Welker, Vollmer,
and Talib. They are high quality players and the team will be much
weaker if they leave.

I would hope that, if anything, they let Vollmer and Talib walk and work something out with Welker. Both have dealt with their own injury issues. With Vollmer, there will be a quite a few stopgap options available through FA until the team looks to the draft in 2014 for RT. I have RG as the bigger need of the two right now since drafting a RG essentially strengthens two positions on the OL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting note, where the Rams have come out saying something different than had been previously reported:

Snead, speaking with NFL.com at the scouting combine, said there were no plans to hit Amendola with the franchise tag, which would be more than $10 million. Amendola, a 5-foot-10, 186-pounder, is a 27-year-old who has had some success as a slot receiver with the Rams over the last three seasons — he had 63 catches in 11 games in 2012 and a career-high 85 catches for 689 yards and three touchdowns in 2010. However, he’s been plagued by a variety of injuries in that time, including heel, foot and clavicle problems, and has missed 20 games over the last two seasons as a result.

It Is What It Is » Rams GM Les Snead: We won’t franchise slot receiver Danny Amendola

 

[nzahir]

Does anyone think amendola would be worth a contract around 3 years and 12 mil? If amendola can stay healthy he can be almost as good as welker for half the price. I also think tavon austin can do welkers job but also be that desean jackson deep threat.

 

[ivanvamp]

Does anyone think amendola would be worth a contract around 3 years and 12 mil? If amendola can stay healthy he can be almost as good as welker for half the price. I also think tavon austin can do welkers job but also be that desean jackson deep threat.

Tavon Austin has the potential to be an NFL superstar. Amendola does not, though I think he'd be a fine replacement for Welker if the Pats don't retain Welker's services.

FWIW, I don't think Austin will be available for the Pats' second pick (as it stands now), so if they want him, they'll have to use their first round pick on him or, when the time comes, expend some resources and trade up to get him. I'm not sure they want to do either.

Though the kid would be incredibly exciting in a Patriots' uniform. Maybe use FA resources on defense, use a first rounder on Austin, and then the rest of the draft on defense.

 

[supafly]

Does anyone think amendola would be worth a contract around 3 years and 12 mil? If amendola can stay healthy he can be almost as good as welker for half the price. I also think tavon austin can do welkers job but also be that desean jackson deep threat.

There was an article somewhere that valued Amendola's market value at between 4-5 million a year--aav, which I'm not so sure I agree with personally. I think it may have been one of the articles on the patsfans home page, but I honestly cannot remember or I would post a link.

I think that you may have a point that they could indeed save some money, but I would have to see him going somewhere around 6--6.5 million myself aav. It's hard to project sometimes, especially since all it takes is one team that has some money and wants him, like the crazy Laurant Robinson situation from last season where JAX gave him a 5/32 deal.

I'm going to assume that Belichick has a plan in place, and that he is looking to get younger while saving some money for other needs at the same time. He could try and fill some of Welker's production from any number of ways, including a combo of Edelman/Hernandez, a possible cheaper vet, a rookie like Tavon Austin in round 1, or even a guy like Danny Amendola.

The problem still remains that it's going to be an outright hope to try and get any of these guys to give us 2/3 of the production while being able to take a clock cleaning hit and bouncing back up like Welker. Any of these possibilities of a Welker replacement is going to be a gamble, but it appears as though that is what Belichick is ready to do in my opinion.

 

[mgteich]

It is a matter of resources. Re-signing Thomas also strengthens us across the interior of the line. We have only 3 top picks. We could trade down and have four in the top hundred. It will be very difficult not to use all of these picks for the secondary and wide receivers, and perhaps a defensive lineman.

It is not clear that a 2nd guard would project to better than Connolly in any case.

BOTTOM LINE
I would consider OG if the value were there and we had essentially met our critical needs in free agency.

I would hope that, if anything, they let Vollmer and Talib walk and work something out with Welker. Both have dealt with their own injury issues. With Vollmer, there will be a quite a few stopgap options available through FA until the team looks to the draft in 2014 for RT. I have RG as the bigger need of the two right now since drafting a RG essentially strengthens two positions on the OL.

 

[supafly]

Tavon Austin has the potential to be an NFL superstar. Amendola does not, though I think he'd be a fine replacement for Welker if the Pats don't retain Welker's services.

I guess it would depend on what you're definition of 'superstar' would be, but the same thing is still being said about Welker to this day. Amendola at age 26 may end up having a fine career here, or anywhere else. I agree that he isn't going to be a Percy Harvin type big-play guy, and that's where you're probably going with your comment.

If Amendola hadn't missed 20 games in the past 2 yrs then I wouldn't be nearly as concerned. He's seriously a very tough player, he just doesn't seem to be as durable as Welker. He also may be quicker and probably has more ability to make some bigger plays, at least that's the impression I've gotten from the limited games where I have watched him play.

There's going to be a point very soon where we're going to have to try and accept the situation that Welker seems to be moving on, and that perception is coming strongly from the front office's inability to give him something reasonable to this point. It's a shame, but there isn't anything we can do as fans.

One of the ways that I am trying to deal with it is to stay optimistic with some of the other options---as hard as that is to do, and as much of a gamble that will end up being.

 

[nzahir]

Tavon Austin has the potential to be an NFL superstar. Amendola does not, though I think he'd be a fine replacement for Welker if the Pats don't retain Welker's services.

FWIW, I don't think Austin will be available for the Pats' second pick (as it stands now), so if they want him, they'll have to use their first round pick on him or, when the time comes, expend some resources and trade up to get him. I'm not sure they want to do either.

Though the kid would be incredibly exciting in a Patriots' uniform. Maybe use FA resources on defense, use a first rounder on Austin, and then the rest of the draft on defense.

We would have to take tavon in the 1st round. This means the 2nd round should be a safety or rt or guard(unless we sign vollmer or a good replacement). Everything depends on free agency and who we are planning to sign. We need Interior pressure-melton or desmond bryant O line-vollmer, cherilus, draft, other vets, cb-re sign talib or another good cb(#1 priority), slot cb-arrington or draft the honey badger, strong safety-draft a guy like elam, try tavon wilson, or sign a guy like reed, golston, or moore, or even try to get adrian wilson if possible

 

[ivanvamp]

We would have to take tavon in the 1st round. This means the 2nd round should be a safety or rt or guard(unless we sign vollmer or a good replacement). Everything depends on free agency and who we are planning to sign. We need Interior pressure-melton or desmond bryant O line-vollmer, cherilus, draft, other vets, cb-re sign talib or another good cb(#1 priority), slot cb-arrington or draft the honey badger, strong safety-draft a guy like elam, try tavon wilson, or sign a guy like reed, golston, or moore, or even try to get adrian wilson if possible

I honestly think they can pick up some OL in the UDFA market, or sign some inexpensive free agents. Scarnecchia always seems to do a good job with players that seem like JAGs.

Goodness, Austin would be unbelievable in a Patriots' uniform. The more I think about it the more intriguing the possibility seems to me. And I've been advocating all offseason that they draft defense, defense, defense.

 

[supafly]

I honestly think they can pick up some OL in the UDFA market, or sign some inexpensive free agents. Scarnecchia always seems to do a good job with players that seem like JAGs.

I think we should have a decent enough core of OL players at the moment, assuming that Thomas can be retained. I'm really only seeing one hole at the moment, and that could be filled via an interior depth presence which would give us a total of nine.

Of course if something crazy with Waters happened, that could change everything and really not even give us any needs at all besides maybe some smaller move for usual offseason spring cleaning, but I hate to even bring it up due to the odds being so astronomical.

Solder--Mankins--Wendell--Connelly--Cannon (top 5 starters)

McDonald, Thomas, (free agent, draftee, UDFA), either one of Hix/Zusevics


Of course there's always the chance that a BPA could be around too, so I certainly wouldn't put it past them to take someone in the higher rounds if that occurred, as is always the case. Otherwise, I agree with your "defense, defense, defense" chant with the exception of a 1st or 2nd rounder on a possible WR.

 

[DocHoliday]

I just don't get the need for another 'swiss army knife' player. Between Woodhead, Edelman, and Vereen do we really need another short fast guy?

If we're going to get a playmaker in the first round, he had better be tall, fast, and be able beat press coverage.

 

[mgteich]

And if Solder is injured, we do what exactly? We used to carry FOUR offensive tackles. 2 starters, one strong backup and one developmental backup. I suggest that if Vollmer is not re-signed, we will sign someone in free agency, hopefully with more left in the tank than Gallery.

So, I am fine with your starters. We need one strong interior backup and one strong OT backup who can backup LT. We also need a couple of developmental players. I am fine with Thomas inside. I can even accept that Dante might have enough faith in the other backups to do without Thomas. HOWEVER, we will NOT go with the list you gave at OT. It is simply asking for trouble.

I think we should have a decent enough core of OL players at the moment, assuming that Thomas can be retained.

 

[supafly]

And if Solder is injured, we do what exactly? We used to carry FOUR offensive tackles. 2 starters, one strong backup and one developmental backup. I suggest that if Vollmer is not re-signed, we will sign someone in free agency, hopefully with more left in the tank than Gallery.

So, I am fine with your starters. We need one strong interior backup and one strong OT backup who can backup LT. We also need a couple of developmental players. I am fine with Thomas inside. I can even accept that Dante might have enough faith in the other backups to do without Thomas. HOWEVER, we will NOT go with the list you gave at OT. It is simply asking for trouble.

So you would rather use the free agent or draft pickup on an outside guy, rather than an inside guy. That is certainly understandable. I was kind of assuming that one would be brought in that could potentially play both if needed, but that is a big assumption. I agree with you that it's better for the free agent vet to be able to play either both or strictly be an OT rather than a guard/center, especially only having McDonald backing up Solder and Cannon. I'm sure that Belichick won't go into the season with only McDonald, Hix, and Zusevics as the 3 behind the two starters. That would not be wise.

It's possible that McDonald could fill in both anyway, and then the list would look like this:

Interior

Mankins
Wendell
Connelly
Thomas

Outside OT

Solder
Cannon
(Free agent need/draftee, but most likely free agent vet)
ONE of Hix/Zusevics as developmental

Either/Or

McDonald

 

[RayClay]

I just don't get the need for another 'swiss army knife' player. Between Woodhead, Edelman, and Vereen do we really need another short fast guy?

If we're going to get a playmaker in the first round, he had better be tall, fast, and be able beat press coverage.

I agree, as far as trying to replace Welker. We also have Demps, who knows what he'll develop into?

Why spend a lot trying to replace soeone who was originally an UDFA? What guarantee is there they will have anywhere near the rapport with Brady? If they don't we're stuck with a bunch of similar players who would need to be cut.

I still think it's possible for a Welker deal (2 years?). As great as he's been, a big part of his success is his rapport with Brady. It's quite possible, IMO, he could be an average to good short yardage receiver in a different system. Plus, he got through his franchise year without injury and banked a damn good salary for a 5'9" receiver. If the team wants him (sure they do) and he wants to stay (I bet he does) there's a number that could make that happen.

If another team offers way more with guarantees, that's another story, I guess.

 

[supafly]

I just don't get the need for another 'swiss army knife' player. Between Woodhead, Edelman, and Vereen do we really need another short fast guy?

If we're going to get a playmaker in the first round, he had better be tall, fast, and be able beat press coverage.

I guess that would all depend on what Belichick's plan is for moving on without Welker, assuming that's the way it shakes out. If it's to use Edelman, Hernandez, or an outside free agent that's one thing. If it's to potentially replace him with a draft pick, then Austin is probably the best choice.

It's also possible that the more physical presence that you're looking for could be brought in via free agency too, although I think most of us would prefer the route of the draft. It'll be exciting to see how it's addressed, and I'm sure we'll have a lot who don't care for the route that he takes without seeing the finished product.

It's also certainly possible that Belichick will bring in a lower level free agent or a draftee hoping that he can fit the need of a more complete WR, but that he also is not nearly as concerned as most of us are about the "stretch the field threat," and he will simply look to keep the current offense going while bringing in more competition and/or developmental talent.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's quite possible, IMO, he could be an average to good short yardage receiver in a different system.

2008, no Brady:

111 catches (#2 in the NFL), 1165 yards (#9 in the NFL)

 

[RayClay]

2008, no Brady:

111 catches (#2 in the NFL), 1165 yards (#9 in the NFL)

Did we use a different system that year?