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If we do trade cassel to KC, it will not be for #3.

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by midwestpatsfan, Feb 25, 2009.

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  1. midwestpatsfan

    midwestpatsfan Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Do not get me wrong, I really like Cassel, but not for the #3 pick. Pioli has a chance to turn around a team with that pick, and I think he will either want to go with an OT or Curry, who would be like what the patriots did when the drafted Seymour all those years back.

    I think KC will want Cassel however- so how do they do this. What about their 2nd round pick and Larry Johnson? Johnson wants out of KC and Pioli is not going to want some bad seed around his team this first year. KC is very young, and if they can get rid of a disgruntled Johnson and get their young franchise QB, it will be worth it. Also, it does not require KC to give up multiple draft picks so they can continue to build through the draft. The patriots may throw in a later round pick, like a 5th or 6th leaving KC with the same amount of picks they had.

    The Patriots get that Corey Dillon type workhorse that could rejuvenate his career in an offense like this, make LJ very happy and very productive, which we all know is a good recipe for championships. We also get a very early 2nd that could be used on someone like Barwin or Delmas. The 5th or 6th we give to KC would probably not have a chance to make the team anyway, so trading that away to get the deal done is not that big of a deal.

    That gives us a draft day look of.
    1 pick in rd. 1
    3 picks in rd. 2
    2 picks in rd. 3 (samuel)
    1 pick in rd. 4
    1 pick in rd. 5(gay) trade ours to KC
    2 in rd. 6(stallworth and ours)
    1 in rd. 7.

    That is still alot of picks that the patriots could use to move around to wherever they wanted. 3 picks inthe second would bring great flexibility and value as there are many players I like that seem to be getting 2nd round grades.

    Thoughts?
    #
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Larry Johnson? Only if KC is offering him as a bundled deal with #3.
  3. Nestapats

    Nestapats Rookie

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    If BB feels we won't overpay a player at the number 3 position, i do think he will go for it. KC is not sure they can get either J Smith or Monroe, so they might want to pick one at 20 and maybe they wouldn't have to give something with that 2nd round pick, because we get a higher pick.

    I think it's unlikely Johnson will land here. We use a multiple backs system and if we'd want this to work we probably would have to get rid of one of our RBs which i do not see happening.

    I'm starting to believe more and more in the nr 3 pick this year and a conditional 4th next what can turn into a 2nd or something.
  4. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    I'd rather take #34 & #67. Or either one of them and a #2 next year. LJ doesn't fill any type of need for us, and he's an expensive and immature player to take on without filling a need. We had the highest yards per attempt in the league last year last I saw.

    Even if I really wanted LJ, it's only a matter of time before he's released. I'd wait until then.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #34 and a conditional pick (minimal 2nd rounder, conditional to a 1st if Cassel makes certain measurables or if the Chiefs make the playoffs).

    #23 Sean Smith/Alphonso Smith
    #34 Connor Barwin
    #47 (probably with a trade up) Louis Delmas
    #58 Jarron Gilbert or a trade-back into 2010
  6. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Just say NO to Larry Johnson. He spots a big salary and he's on the wrong side of 30 as a RB. KC's 2nd and a future 1st is acceptable though.
  7. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    KC's #2 this draft, their #2 next draft, and a swap of positions this draft (round 3?) is plenty to get the deal done. Both Pioli and BB know the value of picks and draft positions, so this deal makes sense.

    I'd be more confident that KC is the frontrunner if I KNEW they weren't pleased with their QB situation. Nothing I've read has directed me one way or the other, as fan opinion seems to be split and Pioli ain't talking.
  8. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    I like this draft and trade where we have a contingency pick. If we are going to get Barwin I think we will have to trade up to 34 to snag him, man he reminds me of a young Vraible. On the Larry Johnson situation just say no I would rather draft some young legs for our RB core.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  9. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where'd he learn that bit of magic from?

    I'd take 2, 2, and switch the 3's.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Make it 2009 3(34), a 2010 2nd conditional to a 1st if Cassel or the team meets certain measurables, and switch the 3's, and I say do it.

    My measurables for giving up a #1 in 2010:

    - Team: KC makes the playoffs
    - Cassel: some combination of % of offensive plays (say 80%) played, yards thrown (say 3500), completion % (say 62-63%), TDs (around 20) and QB rating (> 85). These are just rough thoughts, and are based on how Cassel performed for us in 2008 (89.4 QB rating, 3693 yards, 21 TDs, 63.4% completion).

    Two #2's would still be only what Houston gave up for Matt Schaub, who didn't have Cassel's record as a starter. KC would only give up a 1st if Cassel were highly successful for them, in which case it would be money well spent.
  11. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Love your choices although I would rather see Matthews at #34 and Casey at #58 although he will be gone. I would take you draft though with Sean. Good one.
    DW Toys
  12. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    I like Barwin but I think James Casey is as valuable as a TE, WR, RB, QB. S. This kid (he is older as he was with the White Sox organization) is smartand played all of those positions at Rice. He had a 4.2 yard rushing average and 6 TD's rushing his senior year to go with over 100 receptions as a TE. BB loves versatility.

    Another kid I like nobody mentions is Austin Collie, BYU. Everyone says Robiske would be an asset. Collie had double the receptions, is just as fast, led the nation in total yards per catch and 100 yard games. He is 6' 2" and 206. He runs a 4.52 40 on that slow track and also returned kicks.
    He is mature and a scholar athlete (BB smart?).
    DW Toys
  13. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    I think the league is not wanting to give BB any more ammunition and two ones or a high one and two, would set the Pats up too much. I still see K.C. (Thought Vikes but your dealing with a nitwit who feels TJ is Joe Namath) and an owner who is as nuts as his name so the most logical choice for Cassel would have been there but...........K.C makes sense now. #34 is o.k. In this draft there are 37 players with first round ratings according to Mayock. We need more than just that.

    I would be in favor of a blockbuster involving Maroney. Just too flawed for our system of downhill running. I understand that LJ is a pain but I see a Corey Dillon upside, so how about #34 and exchange of firsts and a running back swap.....with Gonzales. It solves all of K.C.'s problems on those two and Pioli keeps a first rounder so he is really only giving up one pick. There is incentive for Pioli.
    The CAP on those K.C. two is way less than Cassel.

    Yes...I believe that LJ would fit our system better than Maroney. I will get crap for that. You can get an RB in any draft and lets get something for Maroney while we can. Pioli drafted him. I do not want to hear potential. Chad Jackson had potential. Worse case scenario we trade LJ in a fire sale for a pick. He still has talent. BB has a great reform school here in NE.
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  14. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    The way Barwin moved at the combines is what impressed me the most. His body lean and hip flexibility had me excited and see him as potentially as the best turn the corner edge rusher but he is still young as a OLB. BB could let him learn from AD and Vrable and get reps right away as a 3rd TE and specials. While I like Casey as well I think he will not go until the third round with Pettigrew, Cook, Coffman and Nelson going before him on my draft board on TE but that is just IMO.

    I am also a Collie fan and if we could get him fourth I would be cool with it. He also returns kicks at BYU and was considered the best WR ever their with the mind blowing senior campaign.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In my most "realistic" Cassel trade scenario I could see trading him to KC for #34, a conditional 2010 pick, and swapping 3rd round choices. That would leave us with #23, 34, 47, 58, 67 and probably 97 in a very deep draft. In this scenario, I could see going with something like the following:

    - 23: best DB (Sean Smith is my binky, but substitute Alphonso if you like)
    - 34: Connor Barwin, OLB
    - 47: Louis Delmas, S
    - 58: Jarron Gilbert, DE (or possibly Eric Wood, OG/C)
    - 67: James Casey, TE
    - 97: Trevor Canfield, OG (or possibly Sammie Lee Hill DT, Devin Moore RB, Shonn Greene RB, or a WR)

    We could also trade one of those picks back into 2010. But there is a lot of value in this draft.
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The kid I like is Mike Wallace from Mississippi. 6' 200#, ran a 4.33 40 with a 40" vertical and a 10'9" broad jump. I think he would open up the field a lot for Randy Moss and Welker. I see some Greg Jennings in him. I also think Deon Butler may be worth looking at.
  17. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    I can really see this happening. With only one year experience, a conditional pick would make the most sense to a team who is close to pulling the trigger. The question is will the Pats go for it.
  18. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    This is the best I have seen. I would take it. I would take a shot with OSU OT Boone in the fifth. He was rated a first rounder until he went Jared Allen.
    DW Toys
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks for the props. I'm not sold on Alex Boone - never really was, even before his meltdown.

    For the record, here's my 4th-6th round (assuming we get another comp pick as well - I've called it a 4th rounder here, but I'm not sure):

    4(122) Sammie Lee Hill, DT, Spillman - 6'4", 329#, ran 5.11, has played TE, DE and basketball as well; athletic backup for Wilfork
    4(comp) Mike Wallace, WR, Ole Miss - reminds me of Greg Jennings; 6', 200#, 4.33, 40" vertical
    5 Kevin Huber, P, Cincinnati - accurate inside the 20, great hang time
    6 Lee Robinson, ILB, Alcorn St. - depth at ILB, probably a PS guy

    Combined with what I wrote earlier, that's essentially my current best mock effort at this time.
  20. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    I absolutely agree, but the way Adam Shefter was going on about the talk around the league of Matt Cassel being a must get QB with outstanding ability . I think that the final price is going to be too high for KC and Pioli. I really think that if MC is traded we are all going to be presently surprised with they amount BB gets for him (providing Brady's health).

    Looking at your draft, I am not worried about having no money for FA because with this draft we fill our spots and improve in many areas. As I said before I think KC is the only team we can trade with to pick up Barwin unless he sides to 47 or BB loves this kid so much to get him in the first at 23 but DB is a better bet(remember Mayo was a reach pick in many eye's) but he did have much more experience at LB then Barwin does.

    Wallace I love as mention before in one of my post about a month ago. I watched one game of his late in the year and he looked like a NFLer among college kids that game. He is the guy who can stretch the field at WR that I would welcome in the 4th but with that good 40 I think a team will reach on this kid who had a outstanding YPC average.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2009
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