If the Ravens copy the Steelers' defensive game plan from week 8?

[Mountain_Commando]

Let me start with a full disclaimer that on a scale of football IQ, I fall somewhere between functionally ******ed and vegetable. That said, please bear with me if the questions I ask have very obvious answers.

Looking at our 3 regular season losses:
- Bills: Turning over the ball four times is a sure recipe for disaster. Even so, margin was only 3 points, thanks in part to the time lost on Fred Jackson's overturned TD.
- Giants: Two interceptions and zero pressure on the opposing qb. Still, the game was in hand until our horrid secondary (spearheaded by Sergio) gave the game away to Sheli in the last minute. Margin also 3 points.
The common theme in the above two games is piss poor play on both sides of the ball. So it was us beating ourselves in both those games.

However, the single most glaring stat in the loss to the Steelers was time of possession: Steelers had the ball nearly TWICE as long at 39:22 compared to NE at 20:38. This was due to good ball control and clock management by Steelers offense, and a well planned, well executed game plan on the defense which consistently forced quick 3 and outs (10 in all) and kept our offense off the field.

Now even the most passionate doubters will admit that our defense is much improved since week 7. If we can contain Ray Rice (which you can be sure will be agenda no.1 on the game plan), I really don't expect a Joe Flaccid led offense to control the clock like the Steelers did.

So this brings be to my questions. The Steelers playing all man coverage gave our offense a lot of trouble. How much of that gameplan can the Ravens copy, how successfully can they do it, and how do the Pats counter that?

 

[PatsFan2]

Let me start with a full disclaimer that on a scale of football IQ, I fall somewhere between functionally ******ed and vegetable. That said, please bear with me if the questions I ask have very obvious answers.

Looking at our 3 regular season losses:
- Bills: Turning over the ball four times is a sure recipe for disaster. Even so, margin was only 3 points, thanks in part to the time lost on Fred Jackson's overturned TD.
- Giants: Two interceptions and zero pressure on the opposing qb. Still, the game was in hand until our horrid secondary (spearheaded by Sergio) gave the game away to Sheli in the last minute. Margin also 3 points.
The common theme in the above two games is piss poor play on both sides of the ball. So it was us beating ourselves in both those games.

However, the single most glaring stat in the loss to the Steelers was time of possession: Steelers had the ball nearly TWICE as long at 39:22 compared to NE at 20:38. This was due to good ball control and clock management by Steelers offense, and a well planned, well executed game plan on the defense which consistently forced quick 3 and outs (10 in all) and kept our offense off the field.

Now even the most passionate doubters will admit that our defense is much improved since week 7. If we can contain Ray Rice (which you can be sure will be agenda no.1 on the game plan), I really don't expect a Joe Flaccid led offense to control the clock like the Steelers did.

So this brings be to my questions. The Steelers playing all man coverage gave our offense a lot of trouble. How much of that gameplan can the Ravens copy, how successfully can they do it, and how do the Pats counter that?

I think the Steelers D is slightly better because they can bring pressure from all over the place. The Ravens Dominant Sack man is Suggs Bigger DE's like Redding don't statistically do well against the Patriots Blocking Scheme. Matt Light should get some help on Suggs....i think nobody get by Nate Solder he just too Big and Athletic...Solder is much better than regarded.

 

[jmt57]

I would not doubt that the Ravens may try a similar press coverage. I would also assume that the Pats coaching staff has long ago thought of multiple ideas on how to counter that should they see it again - especially during the bye week when it looked like they might meet Pittsburgh again.

There are different things you can do on offense like putting receivers in motions and bunch formations. The no huddle helps as well. And it still comes down to execution; the Eagles tried something similar at times and got burnt on passes over the defender.

 

[Double TE]

The game was in Pitt. Tough to audible with the crowd noise, etc. At home, its a bit easier. NE just played poorly that game too, which I guess can happen on the road.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

oh they will do man coverage..no question

 

[i82much]

Let me start with a full disclaimer that on a scale of football IQ, I fall somewhere between functionally ******ed and vegetable. That said, please bear with me if the questions I ask have very obvious answers.

Looking at our 3 regular season losses:
- Bills: Turning over the ball four times is a sure recipe for disaster. Even so, margin was only 3 points, thanks in part to the time lost on Fred Jackson's overturned TD.
- Giants: Two interceptions and zero pressure on the opposing qb. Still, the game was in hand until our horrid secondary (spearheaded by Sergio) gave the game away to Sheli in the last minute. Margin also 3 points.
The common theme in the above two games is piss poor play on both sides of the ball. So it was us beating ourselves in both those games.

However, the single most glaring stat in the loss to the Steelers was time of possession: Steelers had the ball nearly TWICE as long at 39:22 compared to NE at 20:38. This was due to good ball control and clock management by Steelers offense, and a well planned, well executed game plan on the defense which consistently forced quick 3 and outs (10 in all) and kept our offense off the field.

Now even the most passionate doubters will admit that our defense is much improved since week 7. If we can contain Ray Rice (which you can be sure will be agenda no.1 on the game plan), I really don't expect a Joe Flaccid led offense to control the clock like the Steelers did.

So this brings be to my questions. The Steelers playing all man coverage gave our offense a lot of trouble. How much of that gameplan can the Ravens copy, how successfully can they do it, and how do the Pats counter that?

If you can write a post like that, you are hardly functionally ******ed compared to a whole lot of folks who think they know a lot more than you do.

As far as coverage goes, as a Ravens fan, my biggest worry is Jimmy Smith. He has the athleticism to match up with anyone, but look at what happened in the Chargers game. Essentially he doesn't have the experience to "guess" well about what route is coming and gets beat by experienced receivers that are locked in with a good QB. Our hope is that, as a rookie, he has learned some things since the SD game (including a dose of humility) and will be better prepared for this game.

Webb can one-on-one with just about anybody, he is very good. Not Revis, but very good. Cary Williams, good enough. Not a liability but not Webb either. Pollard doesn't have the best reputation in coverage, Reed is Reed.

Flacco is like rolling dice. You can come up with just about anything and there is no way to predict the result. You just hope.

 

[Double TE]

Benny threw for nearly 400 yards so that helped the Time of Possession and kept NE out of synch offensively. Our run D is not bad, so unless Flacco gets Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Heath Miller on the Ravens this week, he is not throwing for 350+ vs. us.

 

[VrabelJr]

Man coverage doesn't scare me as much anymore. The Ravens aren't the first team that might use man coverage on us since that Steelers game. Here's the difference between that Steelers game and now:

When teams play man against you it's effectively 10 offense versus 11 defenders. That extra offensive player is the QB. Ever since the Steelers game Brady (while not very fast) has done a better job of recognizing this and taking off for 4-5 yards for an easy first down. Brady has appeared to be much more OK with running lately.

 

[PatsFan2]

Benny threw for nearly 400 yards so that helped the Time of Possession and kept NE out of synch offensively. Our run D is not bad, so unless Flacco gets Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Heath Miller on the Ravens this week, he is not throwing for 350+ vs. us.

Not saying he hasn't done it once this year...but Flaccco rarley throws for 300yds on the Road!

 

[Double TE]

Not saying he hasn't done it once this year...but Flaccco rarley throws for 300yds on the Road!

You're making my point...LOL

 

[Metaphors]

However, the single most glaring stat in the loss to the Steelers was time of possession: Steelers had the ball nearly TWICE as long at 39:22 compared to NE at 20:38. This was due to good ball control and clock management by Steelers offense, and a well planned, well executed game plan on the defense which consistently forced quick 3 and outs (10 in all) and kept our offense off the field.

The Pats went 3-n-out exactly twice...the 1st drive of each half. Of their 8 real drives, 4 had three or more first downs, 5 crossed midfield and 4 made it past the PIT 30 yd line. Brady finished with over a 100 passer rating. If Brady has that rating Sunday and the Pats get at least 50% of their drives into scoring territory, I think they will do just fine.

The Steeler game was misread by everyone as a blueprint defensive gameplan against the Pats. The issue was that the Pats had a defensive gameplan that was exactly (I mean 180 degrees) wrong for what the Steelers did. Roethlisberger threw on almost every down and showed amazing discipline in taking short throws. The Pats plan was to stop the run and take advantage when Roethlisberger would play hero trying to force the ball downfield. Kudos to Pittsburgh but not a situation to be concerned about.

The uncharacteristic efficiency shown by the Steelers offense caused the TOP gap...not anything their defense did.

Now even the most passionate doubters will admit that our defense is much improved since week 7. If we can contain Ray Rice (which you can be sure will be agenda no.1 on the game plan), I really don't expect a Joe Flaccid led offense to control the clock like the Steelers did.

Since the first Jets game, the Pats have played 12 games. In only 2 of those games did the Pats defense give up more than 7 points in the 2nd half. You mentioned the Giants game (which was a shutout in the first half). The other was the Indy game where the Pats fell asleep in a blowout. Seems like the Pats have come out with very basic defensive looks to feel out what the opposing offense will do and to not put anything on video unless/until it was necessary. Then they make halftime adjustments and have been very successful.

That says to me that the Pats have the horses and plan to be a good defense (otherwise opponents would rip them mercilessly in the 2nd half). On Sunday, the Pats will hopefully have a solid opening gameplan (unlike the Steeler game) and have enough tools in their belt to counter any adjustments by the Ravens.

So this brings be to my questions. The Steelers playing all man coverage gave our offense a lot of trouble. How much of that gameplan can the Ravens copy, how successfully can they do it, and how do the Pats counter that?

The Ravens don't cover well man-2-man in the middle of the field. Lewis is old, McClain is limited (and now hobbled) and Pollard is terrible. Reed is also hobbled and is needed to freely patrol the deep middle. If Brady knows where Reed is, he can safely avoid him. The CB's play well in zone but are vulnerable when they have to cover man-2-man for more than a few seconds. So the Ravens can be physical like the Steelers, but they don't have the ability to play man behind that unless the pass rush influences the QB almost immediately. Considering the Steelers were only moderately successful with this scheme, I don't expect the Ravens to depend on it.

 

[Sciz]

That Steelers game would've been a heck of a lot different if Brady wasn't playing hurt and just trusted his arm. He wasn't getting big windows, but there were smaller windows that he was missing.

 

[stcjones]

Good post....love the nicknames. I think the ravens will do exactly what the squeelers and gints did:...constant pressu and blitzing.....jam the receivers at the line, take gronk and welk out of it and force us to beat them with hernandez ocho and branch. Arien foster racked up a lot of yards on Balt....not sure we have personnel to do same...but we should.have some success there...

Here's where I think things will be diff from games against pitt...Mcdaniels. I haven't been a huge proponent of his...but if you look at some of the wrinkles that HE added last week (hernandez running out of backfield, really quick screens and outs (dont think those came from BOB)....u have to feel a little more confident that we will be able to counteract that kind of D gameplan. I think McD has learned
some things since leaving and am hopeful that he is going to make a big difference here this time around!

QUOTE=Mountain_Commando;2908481]Let me start with a full disclaimer that on a scale of football IQ, I fall somewhere between functionally ******ed and vegetable. That said, please bear with me if the questions I ask have very obvious answers.

Looking at our 3 regular season losses:
- Bills: Turning over the ball four times is a sure recipe for disaster. Even so, margin was only 3 points, thanks in part to the time lost on Fred Jackson's overturned TD.
- Giants: Two interceptions and zero pressure on the opposing qb. Still, the game was in hand until our horrid secondary (spearheaded by Sergio) gave the game away to Sheli in the last minute. Margin also 3 points.
The common theme in the above two games is piss poor play on both sides of the ball. So it was us beating ourselves in both those games.

However, the single most glaring stat in the loss to the Steelers was time of possession: Steelers had the ball nearly TWICE as long at 39:22 compared to NE at 20:38. This was due to good ball control and clock management by Steelers offense, and a well planned, well executed game plan on the defense which consistently forced quick 3 and outs (10 in all) and kept our offense off the field.

Now even the most passionate doubters will admit that our defense is much improved since week 7. If we can contain Ray Rice (which you can be sure will be agenda no.1 on the game plan), I really don't expect a Joe Flaccid led offense to control the clock like the Steelers did.

So this brings be to my questions. The Steelers playing all man coverage gave our offense a lot of trouble. How much of that gameplan can the Ravens copy, how successfully can they do it, and how do the Pats counter that?[/QUOTE]

 

[Mountain_Commando]

The Pats went 3-n-out exactly twice...the 1st drive of each half.

You're right, my bad.

The Ravens don't cover well man-2-man in the middle of the field. Lewis is old, McClain is limited (and now hobbled) and Pollard is terrible. Reed is also hobbled and is needed to freely patrol the deep middle. If Brady knows where Reed is, he can safely avoid him. The CB's play well in zone but are vulnerable when they have to cover man-2-man for more than a few seconds. So the Ravens can be physical like the Steelers, but they don't have the ability to play man behind that unless the pass rush influences the QB almost immediately. Considering the Steelers were only moderately successful with this scheme, I don't expect the Ravens to depend on it.

Thanks for the informative post. It has helped quell some of my nervousness.

Another point, it has been suggested by several posters that forcing the Raven's LB corps to stretch out horizontally is the way to go. Their strength comes from sticking together up the middle, they don't have the physical ability to move out quick enough, and spreading them out makes them less effective.

So how exactly does the offense pull this off? I expect Reed will have his eye on Branch if he goes deep, Welker thrives mainly in the slot, and AH/Gronk rarely receive on the outside. So assuming that the tight ends mostly stay away from the middle (and that 85 still doesn't emerge as our deep threat), the only things I can think of are screens and short dumps to Welker/open RB's to slowly move the chains. And generous use of AH as a runner to take off on the outside like we saw in the Broncos game. Do these plays stand a good chance of success against Ravens D? And what else can we potentially do to stretch out the Ravens?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

2 weeks after we lost to the Steelers, we played the Jets.
Now in the first game of 2011 vs the Jets, the Jets for the most part, employed their overload the middle with zone coverage scheme they pulled against us in the playoffs. It did not work this time. Pats ran it down their throats.

Coming back to the 2 weeks, we played the Jets again for the 2nd time. This time, Rex changed the scheme back to man coverage and blitzing. If you noticed in that game, our TEs were getting open b/c Jets Safeties sucked and we were, in some plays, in stack and trips formation. That negated the press coverage the Jets tried to do. It allowed huge completions to Branch and Chad Johnson.

I hope we do come out no huddle, line up in stacks or trips and even line up closer to the numbers.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Also, we shouldn't be shocked if the Ravens run man coverage. They have been doing that for years.

The Steelers game kinda shocked us. They were, for decades, a zone coverage and zone blitz team. I never ever saw the Steelers play Cover 1 press w. Polo playing the robber for most of the game before.

 

[IllegalContact]

When Hernandez lines up in the backfield, the coverage can't double anyone or else there will be 2 dependable targets wide open.....they will try to clog up the middle, but the WR Routes will be outside......branch and welker on the sidelines all day

If they try man, gronk will be a mismatch for anyone, Ed reed included, and if they don't put reed on him, then he will likely be the first one who gets the pleasure of taking him on with a solo tackle.....good luck to him