If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best WRs

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

This just shows how spoiled we are.

WE can devote a whole thread dissing a WR that will have 70-75 catches, 1000-1100 yards and 8-10 touchdowns with a backup who hasn't started since high school.

As fans, the only "complaint" I have is the drops. However, I think that's not effort related.

However, does anyone think RM might be out there for too many plays?

 

[Bertil]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Threads like this really seperate the buffoons from the majority of fans. If you cannot see the synergistic nature of pass offense and defense, there is no hope for you. To a very large degree, Wes Welker is able to do does what he does because Randy Moss does what he does. Chris Simms said it in Moss' first game with the Pats. Randy is just one of those guys who look like they're not moving very fast, but NOBODY on the field can keep up with him, let alone catch him. I think what we see ON TV can be misleading.

 

[bakes781]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

As if we didn't have enough posts attacking Matt Cassel at the start of the season?

It's really simple. We EXPECT more from a "HOF" WR than we would from a guy who hasn't started since HIGHSCHOOL!

 

[dhamz]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Didn't Moss dive over the pile headfirst yesterday to attempt to recover a Lamont Jordan fumble?

Production and effort are not the same thing.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

This thread is such a joke in so many ways.

Complain about what ever, but Moss? Good grief man. Obviously if we won the game plan worked. Would you like Moss to make Cassel a better QB or somethin? If Cassel isn't hitting Moss, he wont have huge numbers. It's not all on either guy, but Cassel has missed Moss more than people act. Get off his nuts at least.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Threads like this really seperate the buffoons from the majority of fans. If you cannot see the synergistic nature of pass offense and defense, there is no hope for you. To a very large degree, Wes Welker is able to do does what he does because Randy Moss does what he does. Chris Simms said it in Moss' first game with the Pats. Randy is just one of those guys who look like they're not moving very fast, but NOBODY on the field can keep up with him, let alone catch him. I think what we see ON TV can be misleading.

Exactly. Why is Welker always open, despite the fact hes been straight pwning defenses for 2 years now? Because Moss puts the fear of god into people and they simply focus the attention on him. When Moss is doing nothing Welker is a man possessed. When he is doing something, well, it's beautiful. I really think Moss has played his role fine in the offense this year.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

These sorts of threads are popping up all too frequently lately.

Very sad to see.

I agree ...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Threads like this really seperate the buffoons from the majority of fans. If you cannot see the synergistic nature of pass offense and defense, there is no hope for you. To a very large degree, Wes Welker is able to do does what he does because Randy Moss does what he does. Chris Simms said it in Moss' first game with the Pats. Randy is just one of those guys who look like they're not moving very fast, but NOBODY on the field can keep up with him, let alone catch him. I think what we see ON TV can be misleading.

Come on, now. The Moss defenders are being just as bad as the 'bashers'. Welker was doing what he does in Miami, without Moss. That's why Belioli went out and got him in the first place. Also, Branch was playing the role of Welker before there was a Welker, and Troy Brown was playing the role before that. Moss opens things up, but he is not the generator of all things possible.

Moss is probably the second or third best receiver in NFL history, but anyone claiming that he never takes it easy on the field is just fooling themselves. As I said earlier, it happens to everyone. It happened to Jerry Rice, it happens to T.O. and it will happen to every player who ever plays more than a game or two in the league. It's as inevitable as it is inexcusable. Everyone does it and, when it impacts the game, everyone deserves to be called on it when it happens.

 

[Bertil]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

If Cassel had hit Randy on that bomb yesterday, it would've been postponed for a week, at least.

 

[bakes781]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

This thread is such a joke in so many ways.

Complain about what ever, but Moss? Good grief man. Obviously if we won the game plan worked. Would you like Moss to make Cassel a better QB or somethin? If Cassel isn't hitting Moss, he wont have huge numbers. It's not all on either guy, but Cassel has missed Moss more than people act. Get off his nuts at least.

So I should only "complain" when the team loses? This was a 2-10 team we had to steal a victory away from. Sorry if I'm not exactly thrilled with the performance.

Matt Cassel has shown improvement week after week. The defense flat out stinks! So if there's ANY hope for a post season run it's going to rely on the offense putting up points. We're getting great effort from a lot of guys. The one guy I don't see it from is Randy Moss. Yeah I'm spoiled, but when I see a guy who just last week might as well have been hit by a mack truck play the way he did yesterday, I'm gonna be a little annoyed when I see the HOF on the other side drop yet another ball that was thrown right at him.

I'm thrilled for Wes Welker! But I believe that topic's been well covered already. So yes blame me for being the glass half empty guy for the day that's fine!

 

[ScottieC]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Come on, now. The Moss defenders are being just as bad as the 'bashers'. Welker was doing what he does in Miami, without Moss. That's why Belioli went out and got him in the first place. Also, Branch was playing the role of Welker before there was a Welker, and Troy Brown was playing the role before that. Moss opens things up, but he is not the generator of all things possible.

Moss is probably the second or third best receiver in NFL history, but anyone claiming that he never takes it easy on the field is just fooling themselves. As I said earlier, it happens to everyone. It happened to Jerry Rice, it happens to T.O. and it will happen to every player who ever plays more than a game or two in the league. It's as inevitable as it is inexcusable. Everyone does it and, when it impacts the game, everyone deserves to be called on it when it happens.

Deus, Seriously on the Welker in Miami comment?

And yes, Randy may take it easy on some plays - But if you want him to be able to go deep for 4 Qtr's he's going to have to do that - that's the limit of his ability - I'll take that.

Randy is so good that he can read defenses as well as a QB and not just any QB, but a certain HOF QB that is on IR - So if he know's the play and the defensive set up, who's to really blame him if he takes it easy on a play rather than getting crack blocked?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Deus, Seriously on the Welker in Miami comment?

Of course. Are you saying that BB and the players who echoed his sentiments about Welker being uncoverable 1-on-1 in the games against Miami were all just lying?

And yes, Randy may take it easy on some plays - But if you want him to be able to go deep for 4 Qtr's he's going to have to do that - that's the limit of his ability - I'll take that.

Randy is so good that he can read defenses as well as a QB and not just any QB, but a certain HOF QB that is on IR - So if he know's the play and the defensive set up, who's to really blame him if he takes it easy on a play rather than getting crack blocked?

But if you concede the point about him taking it easy on some plays, why get so hostile when someone points it out? Moss doesn't go 100% on every play of every game. Generally speaking, that doesn't matter because he gets the job done when he's supposed to. On those occasions that he fails, even his most ardent defenders should realize that reasonable criticism is to be expected, especially if it's one of the games/plays where he only gives 90% instead of 100%. It's just part of being a professional athlete, and it's going to happen to every player over time.

BTW, I don't agree that those who claim he dogs it. There's a difference between playing at 100% and 90% and, and there's a big difference between either of them and only going at 50%.

 

[Lifer]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Just my opinion, but Moss just seems to be lacking in the effort department out there. Of course when compared to #83, anybody would look like they're lollygagging.

I see you lollygagging in the field. I see you lollygagging on the bases. I see you lollygagging up to the plate. You know what that makes you?

Lollygaggers.

- Bull Durham, 1988

 

[ScottieC]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Of course. Are you saying that BB and the players who echoed his sentiments about Welker being uncoverable 1-on-1 in the games against Miami were all just lying?



But if you concede the point about him taking it easy on some plays, why get so hostile when someone points it out? Moss doesn't go 100% on every play of every game. Generally speaking, that doesn't matter because he gets the job done when he's supposed to. On those occasions that he fails, even his most ardent defenders should realize that reasonable criticism is to be expected, especially if it's one of the games/plays where he only gives 90% instead of 100%. It's just part of being a professional athlete, and it's going to happen to every player over time.

BTW, I don't agree that those who claim he dogs it. There's a difference between playing at 100% and 90% and, and there's a big difference between either of them and only going at 50%.

I'm not getting hostile about the fact that he may take it easy on some plays, my problem is in the title of this thread, "If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd ........", and the supporting comments behind that thought. We heard "alligator arms" and all that crap - Deus, I have a problem with those comments and I shared my displeasure with them.

While I agree with Bill on Wes, my problem with the Miami comment is that he in no way had this type of production in Miami - now you can argue Tommy, but look at this year with Matt. I think he's taken his game to a new level in NE and proved what he can do in this league far past what he did in Miami.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

While I agree with Bill on Wes, my problem with the Miami comment is that he in no way had this type of production in Miami - now you can argue Tommy, but look at this year with Matt. I think he's taken his game to a new level in NE and proved what he can do in this league far past what he did in Miami.

Look at his career path:

2004: 0 catches
2005: 29 catches
2006: 67 catches
2007: 112 catches
2008: 96 catches to date

He was clearly becoming a force before he got to New England, despite being thrown passes by guys named Lemon, Harrington, Culpepper, Frerotte and Rosenfels. Five different stiffs in two seasons, and he still went from a Chargers cut to a Dolphins practice squad player to leading the Dolphins in receptions in a 3 year span.

 

[BPF]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Look at his career path:

2004: 0 catches
2005: 29 catches
2006: 67 catches
2007: 112 catches
2008: 96 catches to date

He was clearly becoming a force before he got to New England, despite being thrown passes by guys named Lemon, Harrington, Culpepper, Frerotte and Rosenfels. Five different stiffs in two seasons, and he still went from a Chargers cut to a Dolphins practice squad player to leading the Dolphins in receptions in a 3 year span.

I stand my comment on this and Welks catch totals seem to point to that as well: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...d-have-nfls-2-best-wrs-page3.html#post1198057

There can be no debate, Moss gives 100% effort every time out as a NE Patriot. There is no way a player who runs as many deep routes as this guy has over his career can be accused of not giving 100% effort. You have to have the will and be in great shape to do what he does for as long as he's done it. Why can't we just say they are great teammates and they are a great pair whose skills complement each other extremely well. Nice job by BB/Pioli of bringing them together.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Lets also not forget that Moss could easily have had a big game. He got WIDE open, burning 2 defenders, and Cassel overthrew him. In fact, that exact same situation has happened probably a dozen times this year.

If Cassel had a deep ball, Moss would be putting up stats like last year. It isn't his fault Cassel can't throw an accurate deep pass.

I will agree that he had a bad game against the steelers, but everyone has some bad games, even Brady.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Look at his career path:

2004: 0 catches
2005: 29 catches
2006: 67 catches
2007: 112 catches
2008: 96 catches to date

He was clearly becoming a force before he got to New England, despite being thrown passes by guys named Lemon, Harrington, Culpepper, Frerotte and Rosenfels. Five different stiffs in two seasons, and he still went from a Chargers cut to a Dolphins practice squad player to leading the Dolphins in receptions in a 3 year span.

Right, you have illustrated my point/arguement. He's more productive in NE (way more, like he's doubled his best year in another Uni), despite the guy that's throwing to him this year being a VERY green to almost "Rookie" QB.

The Chargers should be ashamed of themselves....check that - They should be absolutely embarrassed.

 

[ikeman20]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

I pray 4 a moss injury. (more of a randy fan than patriots) I have heard all this crap before. The man is the reason I became a vikings fan. When He left the vikings supposedly it was addition by subtraction. They are still looking for their big time wr. Contrary to popular belief, moss only had 1 bad year in oak. And it had more to do with injuries, Art Shell's offense, and QB's. (Andrew walter and Aaron Brooks). So basically patriots fans will not have any idea what moss means to the team till he gets hurt and misses a few games. I guarantee u cassell will be shocked by the difference he sees in defenses. Randy has made some backup qb's some descent money over the years. The vikings biggest problem was defense. Moss first yr in OAK, with collins at QB, the raiders had a top 8 offense. Jeff george actually looked a real QB throwing to Randy. Bttomline the man's impact is severly underated

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Right, you have illustrated my point/arguement. He's more productive in NE (way more, like he's doubled his best year in another Uni), despite the guy that's throwing to him this year being a VERY green to almost "Rookie" QB.

The Chargers should be ashamed of themselves....check that - They should be absolutely embarrassed.

It doesn't illustrate your point/argument at all. If it had only been the last game in Miami compared to the New England years, your argument would have validity. Given the rapid inflation of the numbers starting at the beginning of his career, it undercuts your argument, particularly when you add in the comments of BB and the Patriots defenders.