If PSU gets the Death Penalty What Happens to O'Brien?

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

As horrendous as the offenses were, they weren't football related. What happened was a conspiracy to cover up serious crimes -- crimes that in no way gave the team or players any competitive advantage. Why is this an NCAA issue? It seems like they're really overstepping here.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I agree, what happened is beyond terrible but it was in no way, shape or form football related. It simply involved people that had jobs in the football program.

 

[patchick]

To play Devil's advocate for a moment, I think the NCAA argument will run something like this: if some recruits over the past decade knew about Sandusky, it would tarnish PSU's reputation to the point where they wouldn't come. Hence, PSU had players playing for it that wouldn't have been there had they done the right thing with Sandusky.

Not saying it's right or a good idea, merely that that would be the angle I see them taking.

That's a fair point, but the closer you look at it the more circular it looks. After all, the school/department scandal is the coverup. If they had properly gone to the police with the very first indication of abuse, their program wouldn't have been tainted this way. So the argument becomes "if it weren't for the shameful coverup, recruits would have known about the shameful coverup."

 

[Ivan]

They should have to take the field to this every week:

Uncle Tupelo - Sandusky - YouTube

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's a fair point, but the closer you look at it the more circular it looks. After all, the school/department scandal is the coverup. If they had properly gone to the police with the very first indication of abuse, their program wouldn't have been tainted this way. So the argument becomes "if it weren't for the shameful coverup, recruits would have known about the shameful coverup."

Not exactly. More like that by covering it up and not getting away with the coverup, they've made things inordinately worse for themselves. [Had they turned Sandusky in the late 1990s/early 2000s, they still would have gotten a black eye, but I think, among other things, that Paterno's legacy wouldn't be nearly as tarnished as it is now.]

 

[Joker]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I agree, what happened is beyond terrible but it was in no way, shape or form football related. It simply involved people that had jobs in the football program.

LMAO.....straight out of "Judgement At Nuremberg"...."it is simply a case of patriotism over justice!"

"the people that were burned beyond recognition in that fiery car crash due to faulty gas line design in NO WAY relates to the job done on the assembly line by employees who knew the gas line fault could lead to catastrophe...I mean, it's terrible BUT let's keep the assembly line going!!!"

 

[patchick]

LMAO.....straight out of "Judgement At Nuremberg"...."it is simply a case of patriotism over justice!"

"the people that were burned beyond recognition in that fiery car crash due to faulty gas line design in NO WAY relates to the job done on the assembly line by employees who knew the gas line fault could lead to catastrophe...I mean, it's terrible BUT let's keep the assembly line going!!!"

Come on, NOBODY in this thread has a single moment made excuses for the Penn State administrators' actions. EVERYBODY has said they were totally, shamefully culpable and should pay the full price. The only question is whether the NCAA is the right organization to be determining that price.

 

[BradyManny]

Or, perhaps, the NCAA could just mind its own business, since this isn't in its purview.... :confused2:

Says who though? Couldn't it just be a matter of precedence?

If the NCAA can force schools to change their mascots so as not to be offensive to Native Americans, can't they have some say in how a serial rapist and those who conspired to cover-up and even enable his actions - all in the name of football - are dealt with?

 

[Deus Irae]

Says who though? Couldn't it just be a matter of precedence?

If the NCAA can force schools to change their mascots so as not to be offensive to Native Americans, can't they have some say in how a serial rapist and those who conspired to cover-up and even enable his actions - all in the name of football - are dealt with?

I believe that constitutions, charters and their ilk should actually mean something, should be restricted only to what they cover, and should not be used as excuses for power grabs (which is all this would be). I'm old-fashioned that way.

 

[Joker]

Is the NCAA the right organization to impose sanctions??

OK...I loathe the NCAA...alright?? for decades they have been a caricature of "justice" in their decisions.

In this case, I'll take whatever the NCAA decides to do, the courts and anybody/any thing else that can deal a guillotine to the neck of the Penn St football program and anyone/everyone associated with it. If that is too harsh for some of you to deal with, I understand...you take your stance there should be mitigated justice and decisions...I'll stand on the side of "to get rid of cancer you cut all the cancer out...and any surrounding tissue...to make sure the cancer cannot come back"...sure the NCAA is the last entity you want to issue sanctions, but in this case, they cannot possibly be wrong....unless they give Penn St. a slap on the wrist and forgive all the participants in this program on the grounds of "well, they didn't do anything wrong....NEXT time something like this happens they WILL do the right thing"...is that right....you believe what you want, I believe nothing that comes from the mouth of any Penn St. representative, employee, coach, player,cheerleader,student,fan or hot dog vendor.

 

[SaCaCh]

As far as the NCAA is concerned the penalty really not as much to do with the crime or even the crimes severity. The penalty is all about showing other schools that under no circumstances can you try and save face (in turn keeping a positive image that keeps recruits and money coming in to your program) by ever covering up any crime of any sort within your program.

 

[Jackson 2]

O'Brien will land on his feet and be OK. Not so sure about the child victims.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is the NCAA the right organization to impose sanctions??

OK...I loathe the NCAA...alright?? for decades they have been a caricature of "justice" in their decisions.

In this case, I'll take whatever the NCAA decides to do, the courts and anybody/any thing else that can deal a guillotine to the neck of the Penn St football program and anyone/everyone associated with it. If that is too harsh for some of you to deal with, I understand...you take your stance there should be mitigated justice and decisions...I'll stand on the side of "to get rid of cancer you cut all the cancer out...and any surrounding tissue...to make sure the cancer cannot come back"...sure the NCAA is the last entity you want to issue sanctions, but in this case, they cannot possibly be wrong....unless they give Penn St. a slap on the wrist and forgive all the participants in this program on the grounds of "well, they didn't do anything wrong....NEXT time something like this happens they WILL do the right thing"...is that right....you believe what you want, I believe nothing that comes from the mouth of any Penn St. representative, employee, coach, player,cheerleader,student,fan or hot dog vendor.

A perfect example of exactly the sort of lynch mob response I was posting about earlier....

 

[Joker]

you're right...where proven child molestation is concerned I have a lynch mob mentality...it's a fault of mine...someday I may be able to rise above this horrible shortcoming but I doubt it

 

[Jackson 2]

A perfect example of exactly the sort of lynch mob response I was posting about earlier....

Sometimes the system doesn't produce the sanctions which are commensurate with the crime. In extreme cases such as this one, the "lynch mob" may be the only recourse which seems justified.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

As far as the NCAA is concerned the penalty really not as much to do with the crime or even the crimes severity. The penalty is all about showing other schools that under no circumstances can you try and save face (in turn keeping a positive image that keeps recruits and money coming in to your program) by ever covering up any crime of any sort within your program.

I understand that point but does that message truly need to be made in this case? Is there really anyone out there that thinks if the NCAA doesn't punish the football program then it got off scott free? The words "Penn State" will always be seen in a different light now, NCAA penalties or not. That's not going to change. And considering what it's been like for Penn State football in the past year, I highly doubt NCAA penalties would be the biggest reason another school would shy away from doing the same thing.

 

[deters]

This was posted on another site but without a proper link to the source.

1) SUSPENSION OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS FOR ONE YEAR
2) NO TELEVISION TIL 2015
3) BOWL BAN TIL 2015
4) NO FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 2013
5) ALL CURRENT PLAYERS ON ROSTER ALLOWED TO TRANSFER WITH NO PENALTY
6) NCAA CLEARINGHOUSE TO EXPEDITE AND ADMINISTER ALL TRANSFERS
7) SPECIAL NCAA DISPENSATION THAT PENN ST FOOTBALL PLAYERS WHO TRANSFER, WILL NOT COUNT AGAINST SCHOLARSHIP LIMIT FOR GAINING SCHOOL
8) LOSS OF 8 SCHOLARSHIPS PER YEAR BEGINNING IN 2014 AND CONTINUING FOR 5 YEARS TO 2020.
9) BEGINNING IN 2014, OPTION TO DROP DOWN TO DIV 1AA WITH NO PENALTY, AND THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO DIV 1A AFTER 2020.
10) WINS AND RECORDS BACK TO 1998 WILL BE VACATED
11) TICKET REVENUE OFFSET PAYOUT TO BE GIVEN TO SCHEDULED OPPONENTS

 

[ausbacker]

How about let the criminal justice system assess criminal penalties, let the federal government assess financial penalties against the university for dodging laws about reporting campus crime, let the university officials who are tainted but not criminally charged face life with their careers and reputations in very public tatters, and let the NCAA not invent new powers and mandates for itself?

I don't agree. Because something doesn't have precedent doesn't mean a response can't be formulated for future transgressions of the same nature (let's hope there isn't but you can follow my train of thought).

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. I agree, what happened is beyond terrible but it was in no way, shape or form football related. It simply involved people that had jobs in the football program.

It is a football issue as much as it is a university/administration issue. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I believe that constitutions, charters and their ilk should actually mean something, should be restricted only to what they cover, and should not be used as excuses for power grabs (which is all this would be). I'm old-fashioned that way.

Times change and so do constitutions, charters and laws. This needs to be addressed by the NCAA and the criminal process.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

LMAO.....straight out of "Judgement At Nuremberg"...."it is simply a case of patriotism over justice!"

"the people that were burned beyond recognition in that fiery car crash due to faulty gas line design in NO WAY relates to the job done on the assembly line by employees who knew the gas line fault could lead to catastrophe...I mean, it's terrible BUT let's keep the assembly line going!!!"

You're missing the point. I would not be bothered if every person involved in this had to give every penny they have to the victims, were not allowed to ever work again and spent the rest of their lives homeless. The point I and others have made is that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to penalize them in this case. This is about "who has the power to punish," not "no one should be punished."

Does the game warden get to decide how long I spend in jail if I commit a crime out on the water?

 

[ausbacker]

You're missing the point. I would not be bothered if every person involved in this had to give every penny they have to the victims, were not allowed to ever work again and spent the rest of their lives homeless. The point I and others have made is that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to penalize them in this case. This is about "who has the power to punish," not "no one should be punished."

Does the game warden get to decide how long I spend in jail if I commit a crime out on the water?

I see and accept that point Crazy Patriot Guy but as mentioned, the world changes. Why shouldn't the NCAA be allowed to convene and hand out punishment on the basis of special consideration then move to change their constitution?

Perhaps it's just me but I'm in the boat that the NCAA should be able to punish Penn State University and the people implicated in the scandal to go with criminal proceedings brought against said individuals.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

IIt is a football issue as much as it is a university/administration issue. The two are not mutually exclusive.

So why will the NCAA be penalizing only the football program? If football and the university are not exclusive, why isn't every sport getting punished? Why don't we also let the NCAA cut the budget of every academic department in which a Penn State football player has taken a class since the scandal started?