Welcome to PatsFans.com

If Obama wins

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Born_a_Patriot, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. Born_a_Patriot

    Born_a_Patriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If Obama wins

    This will be a great day not just for African Americans and minorities but for all Americans. A day when the greatest Nation in the world finally fulfills its promise, that all people are created equal.

    I would say that though we may still have a long way to go, we are closer than ever to the Mountain Top.

    Martin Luther King Jr - I Have a Dream
    YouTube - Martin Luther King Jr - I Have a Dream

    Martin Luther King, Jr.'s last speech
    YouTube - Martin Luther King, Jr.'s last speech

    JFK on Civil Rights
    YouTube - JFK on Civil Rights
  2. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I, for one, agree. Whether you are for him winning or not. I think we should all realize what an unbelievably historic event this would be for this country, something none of us could have imagined in our childhoods.

    I just hope next tuesday if it does appear Obama is going to win, that people take the magnitude of it in.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Lets not forget the 'getting GWB out' angle. That's worthy of a world-wide party all by itself.
  4. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    Unfortunately he has nothing to do with any of those men. And has much to do with this man and other racist, bigot, anti-Americans.

    YouTube - 20 years of America-hating destroyed Obama's soul - 20 YEARS
    • Like Like x 1
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    What I like most about how this came about -- and we're touching on it elsewhere -- is that there's mention of it being historic, sure, but the campaign (at least from Obama's side) has been about anything but race. It's all the more stunning because it seems like we're not voting to "fix" our race problem, it's more like to get past it, to just say, we don't have to do that. And may the best candidate win.

    And it does look right now that that's exactly what will happen.

    One week.

    PFnV
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +40 / 2 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    The only good thing is maybe people will STFU about race. I don't give a crap what color he is, I don't know why the Dems are so fixated on it.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,490
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -4

    My Jersey:

    The Dems are fixated on Race because they love to accuse everybody that doesn't tow the line with them of Racism.

    Playing the "Race Card" is one of liberalsims favorite weapons, they hide under tables listening to people talk hoping to pick up one small word that they can use to come charging out screaming "racism" it also makes them so proud of themselves, oh boy, aren't I good, I will go to heaven, blah blah blah.

    90% of the time it will be a bellowing blubbering democrat who starts the "race sh!t" they love it.
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    24,998
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -5

    My Jersey:

    Nice post BAP! I've said right from the start that America is growing old and tired as a nation. We've forgotten what the true American spirit is all about and you hit the nail on the head, it's about hopes & dreams, equality and unity.

    If Obama wins, it is a day for all Americans to celebrate that America has held her promise. We should all celebrate that we have crossed a milestone in our pursuit of equality. Why would any American of any race NOT want to show our support for our black brothers & sisters? My God, from a historical perspective, black Americans as a people at least deserve that.
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    Gotta be careful he will give you extra negative rep points..

    OTOH and to the real issue, do not believe that Obama will get elected.. there will be every effort to derail him this week, and do not believe that all these white folk who now support him will go behind the curtain and pull the Obama lever.. it he is elected he will never make it to his inaugaration.. America is not ready for a black president.
  11. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    America is ready... It's just the fringe cracker-ish 1% who aren't ready....

    He'll get elected...
    • Like Like x 1
  12. MrSparkle

    MrSparkle Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I hope you are right...and not right. I hope he does not get elected. However, I hope and pray that he will not be "taken out". That would be horrible for this country. Also consider how hated Bush is. If they can keep him safe, I'm pretty sure Obama can be kept safe as well.

    I'm just glad this is almost over. It's been a horrible election season. I personally don't like either candidate.
  13. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    I'm looking forward to election night too... truthfully, election season just p****es me off these days...

    But hey, that's democracy, I reckon
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    And then afterwards they'll all come together and say nice things. It reminds me of those old Warner Brothers cartoons with the Wolf and the sheepdog when they are all friendly like "Hi Ralph" "Him Sam" and then they punch in their time card and start trying to kill each other.

    We get all worked up about it and they all go on.
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,731
    Likes Received:
    44
    Ratings:
    +48 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #50 Jersey
    What about if McCain wins and we have a woman VP? You don't think that brings up closer to the top? Women have been discriminated against just as much as blacks.

    Sorry, but I could care less what color a person's skin is. When I was doing hiring for the start-up company I worked for, I hired people who could do the job. It didn't matter what skin color they were.
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,731
    Likes Received:
    44
    Ratings:
    +48 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #50 Jersey

    Doesn't it suck when you prove that he's right by contradicting yourself? You responded to him. And his response was not a thread detour. That's just BS you try to throw up to avoid the truth.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    24,998
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -5

    My Jersey:

    "Women have been discriminated against just as much as blacks"??WTF:confused:

    You don't have a clue, huh dabruinz? When was the last woman lynched? When was the last time a woman had to go to the back of the bus?

    Don't get me wrong, women certainly have been discriminated against by all men of all colors...but not "just as much as blacks" We need to make that very clear.

    Lastly, it would be great to have a woman as POTUS or VP. But NOT Palin. She's just to stupid and worried about her own career which I guess "she" believes is promising:rolleyes:
  18. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    That one's apples and oranges. I can't even say "just as much" because these are totally different questions...

    Economically, men can be compared with women or whites compared to blacks. Someone barking up this tree can do the math on equal work/equal pay stats. It's significant, and it's directly comparable.

    However as PR points to, socially it's a mixed bag from the point of view of women. Some consider a certain kind of attention wonderful, and some claim it is a form of oppression, for example.

    You really want to compare violence against Blacks for being Black, vs. violence against women for being women? God, how do you get the stats beyond things like hate crimes and lynchings, regarding Blacks? The violence against women stats are at your fingertips and they're endemic.

    On the other other other hand... if women are economically discriminated against, aren't the majority of women already in a "reparations" position? I.e., don't you have to somehow figure out that the majority of this oppressed class live with a member of the oppressor class, and equally share economic burdens, primarily using the "oppressor's" statistically higher income?

    And with their longer lifespan, women end up owning more of the real wealth (sic) in this country, even with the lower income. Old ladies, by this statistical measure, rule the world.

    All that to say you can't compare. This is not to say that a strong candidate that happens to be black at the top of the ticket is the equivalent on the "historymeter" to a weak candidate picked as a gimmick, the gimmick being that she's a woman "just like Hillary." Or was she picked for her foreign policy experience?

    Of course the Dems never threw that one around, despite the insistence of the Palin camp that any criticism of their candidate was sexism. The Palin pick was a cynical ploy to begin with, and it's backfired comically. McCain wanted a pretty lady who could parrot phrases like "maverick" and "reform", and they got more than they bargained for... she's got drawing power, and though she's hard pressed to have 2 firing neurons to rub together, they're both firing on the subject of ambition, and neither on the subject of loyalty.

    McCain's ineptitude might be said to find its finest expression, in that he was actually capable of underestimating Sarah Palin.

    PFnV
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,247
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree. I think Obama could be a really transformational leader, not only for the nation, but for the world as well. If the US can set an example by electing a black man named Barack Obama, it's going to give other parts of the world hope that a civilized, colorblind society can actually exist. The election of Obama would really return world favor to us as a good model of equality and freedom for all.
  20. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    it's a step back, because it shows a clueless person can rise to the second most powerful position in the world.

    i think it's an insult to condoleeza rice and hillary clinton who have worked very hard over the years and actually know the issues
  21. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,338
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree, but not about the race. I think Obama brings hope and will hopefully rsult in our world reputation getting back on the road to repair. Bring our allies closer. Reigning back spending and bringing us out of this growing government.

    I still think the dollar will crash unless there is something truly radical. We just can't keep up with the interest payments on the debt as part of a yearly budget. Obama actually needs to get these new ideas in place and I think he will inspire people to back him.
  22. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Do not want to minimize the effect on discrimination of women, as they deserve equal rights.

    This comment shows your naivete, not sure if you remember people like George Wallace.. Bull Durham and the rest of those guys... or events like the desegration marches in the 60's, Little Rock desegration, Freedom Riders Killed, the Birmingham Church Bombing, Medger Evers, Ku Klux Klan.. could go on and on.. there is so much etched into our collective conscience that will never be erased.
  23. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,527
    Likes Received:
    41
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Darryl, Bruinz, et al., seriously, the comparatives are just askew... I don't think there's a methodology in existence that can tell a feminist that a Black woman is not more oppressed than a Black man, that a White woman is not more oppressed than a White man... case closed. And if your main focus is race, you can't tell me that a Black woman is not more oppressed than a White woman, that a Black man is not more oppressed than a White man...

    Of course, here are all the white males, having a cozy little discussion about it.

    But what this election seems to be about, insofar as it is "about" race or gender, is getting past it. That's how Obama is getting where he is. I don't think Palin actually gave a thought to feminist points of view prior to her surprise nomination. It strikes me that hitching her campaign early on to a feminist wagon was purely cynical, whereas Obama made one tremendous speech on race, and then left it alone. The focus of his speech was that it was time to stop grinding that axe. Not to forget it, not to ignore it, but to get on with the country's business.

    It's showing that you CAN run and win, probably as a Black man becoming president... maybe as a woman running as vice president...

    But these are people running as people (with the exception of Palin's complaints about sexism...) and all the race and gender stuff is being thrown in from the sidelines.

    Don't get me wrong. It WILL show a young black kid or a young girl that America IS what it claims to be, insofar as the promise that anyone could possibly be in high office, and we do not just give these offices to the priviledged demographic slices. (We mainly do. But not exclusively.)

    Obama represents a "deal" of sorts: If you are a historically disadvantaged group, you HAVE to do whatever is in your power for your own people and for yourself (i.e., Black fathers have to take responsibility in their own families, for example.) He's hammered this point home as much as or more so than other points on race. He's also given the civil rights struggle its due, but at the time said it is time to move on and reap the fruits won in that struggle by being part of the larger society.

    For everybody, of COURSE you will be called on to help society as a whole, whether economically or through service. That includes service to the most needy of any color. And yes, getting past race will benefit minority racial groups as well.

    I know good and well that promises and posturing are not identical to governance; nevertheless, knowing a man's positions is useful. For example, I know that McCain believes we can continue to irresponsibly cut taxes across the board, despite our low tax rates, especially relative to our obligations. I know Obama thinks one should at least be responsible enough to stop George II's giveaways to the rich and the corporations. But beyond that, neither will say that in any fiscally responsible regime, taxes must eventually increase. The math just says our taxes, taken as a whole, are too low. The "magical" solutions -- future growth, unsustainable bubbles, etc. -- are not going to create magical money, particularly heading into a secular bear market, and particularly in a circumstance where it's been made clear that the price of temporarily juiced short-term returns is a fair chance of economic collapse.

    Obama takes pains to phrase many of his initiatives as investments, especially in infrastructure. Good on him. He doesn't say that it might not work. He says it's how we'll succeed if we are to succeed, and I agree with him. McCain? He says we're Americans and we don't give up. Bully. I suppose I agree with that too, but I see very little in the way of a plan there.

    So the point here is not that you can tell the outcome by the rhetoric and the records. The point is you can tell what direction a candidate will go by the rhetoric and the records.

    I bring this up because Obama's rhetoric and record in regards to race is not that of a racially based partisan. It is of a man who seeks to help the most needy, call for service and unity, and seeks above all not to raise racial issues but to transcend race. But does he remember being raised in part with public assistance, and realize that good people can be in that situation? Yes. Does he understand that most poor people are willing to do what they can to NOT be poor? Yes.

    THink of the demonization of the poor in this country, and the racial filter we put that through, because of the statistical concentration of poverty in the Black community. Obama gets that poverty is not necessarily the result of Sloth, or Lust, the applicable deadly sins the GOP and allies pretty much impute poverty to. It's the result of a system that allows for and indeed necessitates a certain degree of poverty.

    And he's smart enough to know that you can't get the majority to forego its perceived superiority based on such filters. But you CAN get the majority to say "tell ya what: let's forget about who's which color." He's made the calculation that society as a whole, and the Black population as part of that society, needs to move past it and stop fighting over the breakdown of the injustices that remain. He's smart enough to say, get rid of American injustices, and you get a better America.

    Will Blacks disproportionately benefit from such an approach? Only to the extent that Blacks are disproportionately and systematically the targets of injustice in the present day... which I'm sure some of our erstwhile right-wingers consider socialism (or even more comically, "racism" against whites.)

    As Senator McCain says, "Change is Coming." And it won't be a potemkin village dress-up version of change, the kind where you ridicule a scientific study and cut a drop in the bucket from the federal budget.

    I think that's a good thing. But real change is threatening.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  24. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If Obama wins, our country is DOOM.
  25. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Canada is nice, Mexico is nice.. there are so many choices one can make.. but to live in a country of "DOOM" is not a good choice.

Share This Page