Welcome to PatsFans.com

If countries like Dubai begin to fail, who will save them?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,851
    Likes Received:
    150
    Ratings:
    +317 / 4 / -2

    What does happen if some higher profile nations, like possibly even our own, start to fail? I'm not saying it's goin to happen or anything, but at some point, doesn't the fiscal expanse of gubmit worldwide, have to do a 180?

    If countries like Dubai begin to fail, who will save them? - Telegraph
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,769
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    Capitalism is essentially a pyramid scheme where we all keep propping each other up. Marx felt eventually the whole thing would collapse, but so far that has not been the case. As long as we all continue to act in collusion, the global economy will be fine. The moment we get too afraid, then the whole house of cards collapses, and we must begin looking for alternatives.
  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    You don't believe that oil depletion is real, do you?

    How is it that you buy into climate change because of the science, but you dismiss Olduvai theory despite all the science? No one is really challenging peak oil, whereas many have countered climate.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,233
    Likes Received:
    130
    Ratings:
    +367 / 1 / -9

    You can say that again.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,769
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    I think oil depletion has some truth to it, but my thinking is that, in effect, oil will be phased out and new technologies will be phased in. I think the global warming movement provides a lot of the impetus for this new technology.

    I'm not familiar with Olduvai, except what I just read on Wikipedia. It seems to me it's rather neoMalthusian. I think humans have spent eons inventing solutions to problems of their own making. I think that will continue to be the case.
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Fair enough... But, what new technology? And more importantly, if initial implementation started as quick as tomorrow morning, how soon will it be ready in order to sustain civilizations? Collapse is starting now. ... as we're kinda seeing with insolvent governments, infrastructure breakdown and energy shortages all over the planet.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,769
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    If oil runs out very suddenly, we're going to have a major crisis, but if solar, ethanol, wind, ocean current, nuclear, and other forms of energy are given ample ramp up time, I don't think the crisis will be all that great. As far as insolvent government goes, it's ironic that it's the conservatives are are trying to create a panic. If they succeed, then we will be in difficult times, but ultimately the people who have the most to lose economically are also the one's who are able to keep the markets somewhat stable even in bad times. The interesting thing right now is that if China really wanted a socialist revolution, it is right now in a position to shake the foundations of capitalism. But, they would suffer as much as anyone. Our interdependent economies seem to be serving as a dam against economic collapse.
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    OK. I applaud your optimism. But reports from the IEA and ASPO tell a different story.

    There is no silver bullet that will replace what light crude does for industrial civilization. And certainly not inside of the next 25-30 years.

    Situations like those in Dubai, Iceland, Latvia, Greece, Mexico, ... England... and so on are going to increase and become more and more devastating. Solar, ethanol, wind, etc. seem ambitious on paper, but are not going to rescue global markets in time.

    Too fearful to publicise peak oil reality | Madeleine Bunting | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,769
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +169 / 4 / -4

    At some point, the price of oil will increase to make an alternative more viable, and many of those alternatives are very viable -- bike riding instead of driving, solar energy, insulation, mass transit, migrating to warmer climates, etc. Of course, if there truly was not enough energy to go around, then there would be a terrible crisis, but I just don't see the crisis hitting that abruptly. I think scientists have pretty good idea as the minimum amount of accessible oil that remains in the world.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,851
    Likes Received:
    150
    Ratings:
    +317 / 4 / -2

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....capitalism..........eeeeeeeeeevil.......zzzzzzzzzzzz............
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,851
    Likes Received:
    150
    Ratings:
    +317 / 4 / -2

    zzzzzzzzzzz......peak oil.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,851
    Likes Received:
    150
    Ratings:
    +317 / 4 / -2

    This mess is financial. It's not cuz of oil. People, corporations, and gubmits all spent more than they could account for. Fiscal insanity, and irresponsiblity is what I'm talking about. If you guys want to talk non sequitor, please find, or create your own thread. Thanks. :D
  13. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Too funny.... It's times like these that it becomes clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    You created the thread in the form of a question... you asked who will save them.... The answer is, no one will save them... Because they can't be saved. ... You can act all self-important about "your own" thread, but that IS the answer.

    Do you honestly believe this GLOBAL meltdown is merely financial? That everyone just got dumb at the same time and couldn't manage their books?

    They are called petro-dollars for a reason. The economy IS energy. They spent more than they could account for because they all adhered to the MYTH of infinite growth. That, no matter what, there would always be affordable energy to help keep things growing.

    The oil-economy connection
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  14. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    #95 Jersey

  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,851
    Likes Received:
    150
    Ratings:
    +317 / 4 / -2



    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....peak oil.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Please do not hijack my thread. Thanks.
  16. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    That's about what I thought you had in your arsenal. A whole lot of nothing.

    Please do not hijack my thread. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  17. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    this is one of the best in-depth current affairs stories I've read in a couple of years...


    The dark side of Dubai


    Dubai was meant to be a Middle-Eastern Shangri-La, a glittering monument to Arab enterprise and western capitalism. But as hard times arrive in the city state that rose from the desert sands, an uglier story is emerging. ​


    The Independent
    Johann Hari reports...

    This is a city built from nothing in just a few wild decades on credit and ecocide, suppression and slavery. Dubai is a living metal metaphor for the neo-liberal globalised world that may be crashing – at last – into history.​
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>