If BB is a defensive mastermind, why...?

[tombonneau]

He didn't NEGLECT the LB position and its pure ignorance to say so. He couldn't find the type of player he was looking for. Also, people like yourself forget that they interview these players. If they can't find a player who they know they can work with, why would they draft that person.

When you can only draft one LB that can effectively play in your system in nine years, maybe it's time to change the system.

 

[ramon]

I agree with tombonneau...I always thought part of BB's genius is ability to be flexible and adapt.
The number of available good linebackers that he has passed on for inferior talent over teh past 5 years is appalling

e.g. Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Karlos Dansby to name a few


also why did the Patriots not try to trade up for Revis at #14...Mangini did

 

[patsfan-1982]

...has our defense been so average for the past few years.

Not only average, but unimaginative.

I couldnt help admiring the RexRyan attacking D with multiple confusing looks, and pressure. IF that is such a successful D, why arent we doing some of that? (and dont say its because of injuries cause we havent even tried it in the past 2 seasons or last week)

PS I was happy enough with our D yesterday. Could have been MORE destructive with a rookie QB.

-- FRITZ

a coach is only as good as he's players whit the g man he had LT and like 2 more HOF players on D when he was the HC of the browns he was bad because they had no great players

with the pats he had that great D because he had williy mac ty law seymour vrabel harrison ted washington rosie colvin tedy b and so on

but even with that said right now AD and wilfork are the only ones that have ever been all pro on this D the rest of the D is all 4th and 7th round pick only meriweather and wilfork are first round picks with out mayo and guyton was undrafted

this D is not top 10 but they are doing a nuff to win the games the pats are 1-1 and all most 0-2 because

brady is human when he turns back in to super man we will go 16-0 again

but until then we will have to be like every team in the NFL it will be hard to win games on the road VS good teams thats happens in the NFL

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree with tombonneau...I always thought part of BB's genius is ability to be flexible and adapt.
The number of available good linebackers that he has passed on for inferior talent over teh past 5 years is appalling

e.g. Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Karlos Dansby to name a few


also why did the Patriots not try to trade up for Revis at #14...Mangini did

You can agree all you want, but that doesn't make him right. The system has nothing to do with how they interviewed with BB. People like you and he forget that MAJOR component.

BTW, I find it friggin absurd that you people are whining about a defense that allowed 17 and 16 points in 2 games and that is clearly in transition.

BTW... Wednesday morning QBing on drafts that happened 3,4, and 5 years ago is pretty sad. Not to mention that you have no proof of anything to support your ideas that guys like Harris, Dansby, Woodley would excel in the Pats system or could have worked for BB. BTW, the year that Revis was draft, 2007, the Patriots added Randy Moss and Wes Welker. They added Meriweather, as well. And tried to trade out of the rest of the draft, to no avail, after they failed to trade up for Stewart Bradley.

Amazing how people ignore things like that..

 

[DaBruinz]

When you can only draft one LB that can effectively play in your system in nine years, maybe it's time to change the system.

Let me know when you've read Patriot Reign..

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Here's the thing. Belichick benefited a lot from the players drafted by Parcells like bruschi, mcginest, etc. much of those super bowl teams was built by parcells with the obvious exceptions like brady. he hasn't been awful in drafting but i always thought parcells was the better talent evaluator.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: If BB is a defensive mastermind, why....?

I understand the "Fan appeal" of that type of Defensive. But really, how has that worked for Baltimore in the recent past?

It's actually worked really, REALLY well for them. it's the offense that needed work. the Defense has been championship caliber for about 10 years now.

They are actually my early favorites to win it all.

 

[DaBruinz]

You also forget that Belichik can make mistakes in evaluating players. We had a chance to draft David Harris and he's looked good. We also had a chance to draft Anthony Spencer and some other LBs that may not be superstars, but are good players.

Point is, LBs are the key to BBs defense but he hasn't drafted like it. Draft is a crapshoot, why not gamble on key positions? Meanwhile, we've gambled on players like Watson, Maroney, Jackson, etc.

*roflmoa* I'm not you. I don't forget that BB can make mistakes. I accept that he does. The Pats had a choice. Draft Meriweather or Harris. They chose Meriweather as being the better player. Sorry that you want to re-write history.

The Patriots didn't GAMBLE on players like Watson, Maroney and Jackson. Talk about trying to re-write history and just plain lying..

Watson was the #2 TE in his draft. Maroney was tied with Addai (2 years older than Maroney) and Williams. Addai has gotten progressively worse each season he's been in Indy and, until last year, Williams was considered a bust by Carolina fans. Jackson was considered a STEAL at the time of the draft. Because he was considered 1st round talent who the Patriots were able to move up and draft for a low cost.. Jackson was progressing slowly, but was progressing, during his rookie year until the AFCCG when he suffered the ACL tear that cost him his sophomore year. And he made it through TC and onto the final 53, until he was cut one day later.

Instead of re-wrtiting history and just plain lying, why don't you stick to the facts? Or are you like your namesake, Tom Condon, who hates the Patriots because he couldn't get his way in the Ben Watson and whom Watson proceeded to dump so he could get signed and into camp?

Oh.. yeah.. BTW, in 2004 when Watson was drafted, the Pats had Rosie Colvin coming back from Injury and they had Vrabel, Bruschi, McGinest, and Phifer. Bruschi was coming off a career year. Ted Johnson was also coming back from injury. So where was Dansby supposed to play other than on Special Teams? What was Dansby's achilles heel coming out of college? How did Dansby do in his interview with BB? Do you know? I don't. How do you know that Dansby would have excelled in the 3-4?

 

[rsd]

Re: If BB is a defensive mastermind, why....?

It's actually worked really, REALLY well for them. it's the offense that needed work. the Defense has been championship caliber for about 10 years now.

They are actually my early favorites to win it all.

Well if we can pick and choose which part of a team is good then, give me the Saints Offense and Baltimore's Defense! Of course reality says you have limited resources, and that likely if you are going to dedicate a lot of money to one side of the field the other is going to be lacking (See Baltimore, See Colts, etc).

I'm speaking to the overall results for Baltimore and they've been inconsistent at best. Look at their overall records the last 5 or so years. I counted at least 2 years sub .500 and 2 years above .500.

 

[tombonneau]

You can agree all you want, but that doesn't make him right. The system has nothing to do with how they interviewed with BB. People like you and he forget that MAJOR component.

BTW, I find it friggin absurd that you people are whining about a defense that allowed 17 and 16 points in 2 games and that is clearly in transition.

BTW... Wednesday morning QBing on drafts that happened 3,4, and 5 years ago is pretty sad. Not to mention that you have no proof of anything to support your ideas that guys like Harris, Dansby, Woodley would excel in the Pats system or could have worked for BB. BTW, the year that Revis was draft, 2007, the Patriots added Randy Moss and Wes Welker. They added Meriweather, as well. And tried to trade out of the rest of the draft, to no avail, after they failed to trade up for Stewart Bradley.

Amazing how people ignore things like that..

I'm not whining. But the D has been steadily declining since 2004. Anyone who can't see that is in denial. The lack of home-grown, young up-and-coming LBs has been a major part of that. Obviously it is not as simple as that, there are lots of moving parts, but not using high draft picks on LBs when you play a 3-4 defense just seems odd. And if part of the reason why is that it is too hard to find those types of players, perhaps you should start adapting your philosophy and scheme to be more in line with your pool of available resources.

That said, I agree the defense this season has done enough to win both games; however, when a real offense shows up (which it will the next three games straight) we'll see if those players really are good enough to win with.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I agree with tombonneau...I always thought part of BB's genius is ability to be flexible and adapt.
The number of available good linebackers that he has passed on for inferior talent over teh past 5 years is appalling

e.g. Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Karlos Dansby to name a few


also why did the Patriots not try to trade up for Revis at #14...Mangini did

i get what your saying it kinda make you mad seeing teams get all pro LB after we pick a back DL man or a DB

and then when we do draft a OLB he's a 3rd round pick that they keep puting on IR with a fake injure

but we cant have our cake and eat it to im sure every team in the NFL was mad when we was wining 3 SB with tom brady every team passed on him seymour could of been the first pick in the draft we got him at 6 wilfork lots of peopel had him as a top 10 pick we got him at 21 you win some you loose some

 

[gomezcat]

Apologies if it has been done already, but:

NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at New York Jets - 2009 Week 2

 

[DaBruinz]

Here's the thing. Belichick benefited a lot from the players drafted by Parcells like bruschi, mcginest, etc. much of those super bowl teams was built by parcells with the obvious exceptions like brady. he hasn't been awful in drafting but i always thought parcells was the better talent evaluator.

If Parcells was the better talent evaluator, why did he fail with the Jets and Cowboys?

One of the things that we don't know about is how these guys did in their interviews with their position coaches and with BB. People forget that there are numerous different levels that play into the evaluation and drafting of a player. From the scout level all the way up to BB/PIOLI and now BB/Caserio/Reese. Not to mention the current team balance.

Yes, I am sure that we could all be Johnny Come Lately's and look at things with the great 20/20 hindsight, but how many have stopped to look back at the Patriots Rosters prior to those drafts.

 

[Steve1iron]

The defense has not been the same since Romeo Crennel left and Dean Pees arrived. RC used to play more of a physical, pressure defense. Pees plays a plain vanilla prevent type of D that just doesn't work. We use to say that it was a bend / don't break defense, but more often than not it prevents us from being effective and disruptive.

Sanchez sat back in the pocket in the 2nd half with little to no pressure. If there was a time to pressure the QB it was yesterday with a rookie in the pocket. We need to become more agressive with the defense and stop playing not to lose.

 

[condon84]

*roflmoa* I'm not you. I don't forget that BB can make mistakes. I accept that he does. The Pats had a choice. Draft Meriweather or Harris. They chose Meriweather as being the better player. Sorry that you want to re-write history.

The Patriots didn't GAMBLE on players like Watson, Maroney and Jackson. Talk about trying to re-write history and just plain lying..

Watson was the #2 TE in his draft. Maroney was tied with Addai (2 years older than Maroney) and Williams. Addai has gotten progressively worse each season he's been in Indy and, until last year, Williams was considered a bust by Carolina fans. Jackson was considered a STEAL at the time of the draft. Because he was considered 1st round talent who the Patriots were able to move up and draft for a low cost.. Jackson was progressing slowly, but was progressing, during his rookie year until the AFCCG when he suffered the ACL tear that cost him his sophomore year. And he made it through TC and onto the final 53, until he was cut one day later.

Instead of re-wrtiting history and just plain lying, why don't you stick to the facts? Or are you like your namesake, Tom Condon, who hates the Patriots because he couldn't get his way in the Ben Watson and whom Watson proceeded to dump so he could get signed and into camp?

Oh.. yeah.. BTW, in 2004 when Watson was drafted, the Pats had Rosie Colvin coming back from Injury and they had Vrabel, Bruschi, McGinest, and Phifer. Bruschi was coming off a career year. Ted Johnson was also coming back from injury. So where was Dansby supposed to play other than on Special Teams? What was Dansby's achilles heel coming out of college? How did Dansby do in his interview with BB? Do you know? I don't. How do you know that Dansby would have excelled in the 3-4?

You're missing the point man. Fact is I don't know how Dansby would have done in our system at the time of the draft and just like no one knew how Watson would have done. It's all a gamble. BUT, since LBs are our main playmakers on defense, wouldn't have it made sense to invest higher draft picks on that position?

LOL at the bolded section! You really are THAT poster:singing:

 

[SVN]

The defense has not been the same since Romeo Crennel left and Dean Pees arrived. RC used to play more of a physical, pressure defense. Pees plays a plain vanilla prevent type of D that just doesn't work. We use to say that it was a bend / don't break defense, but more often than not it prevents us from being effective and disruptive.

Sanchez sat back in the pocket in the 2nd half with little to no pressure. If there was a time to pressure the QB it was yesterday with a rookie in the pocket. We need to become more agressive with the defense and stop playing not to lose.

its BB's defense and he has a say in everything....so if its pees its BB too. We had dom capers lastyr...it didnt change then too...and nowlook at the GB defense.

 

[Steve1iron]

its BB's defense and he has a say in everything....so if its pees its BB too. We had dom capers lastyr...it didnt change then too...and nowlook at the GB defense.

I agree it isn't just Pees. BB has responsibility here too. But key point is that Pees is calling the defense during the game, not BB. Last year against the Jets at Foxboro, the Pats played a very aggressive defense in the 2nd half to get the game into overtime. OT came and he went back into his prevent defense rather than continue the style that got you to OT in the first place.

 

[condon84]

The Patriots didn't GAMBLE on players like Watson, Maroney and Jackson.

at you acting like picking players in the draft is like ordering pepperoni pizza.

 

[goz421]

Jeez, have some of you become major spoiled. Three superbowl wins and another appearance. How many as an assistant. Your best defensive player out. Major penalty calls on offense putting huge pressure on the defense.

This is the NFL and you don't win them all.

How can one even think to criticize.


Please!!!!!!!

 

[Brady to Brown]

Totally agree. BB is a clearly a general COACHING mastermind on all sides of the ball, but there are far better defensive minds out there.

Our defensive coaching since Romeo Crennel left has been very average.

I close my eyes whenever its 3rd and more than 10 yards.