If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicker?

[sebman2112]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

Bring in another kicker for Comp? Gostkowski is fine! Need I remind you he made every kick in the 2006/2007 playoffs, and his percentage during the 2007 regular season was also pretty good? Maybe he could have used a little more practice (NE went stretches of the season without having to kick many FG's), but I consider him a top 10-12 kicker.

Let's also not get Vinatieri confused with this magical kicker who made/makes everything, even from long distances. He missed multiple FG's in the playoffs and the SB while a Patriot, and his overall skill has declined. Yes, he made some amazingly clutch FG's (and we should all be thankful he was a member of the Patriots), but even the untouchable Adam missed a few.

Also, I don't think they would have tried for that FG if Adam were still here. We're talking about a 49 yarder, and Adam's leg strength has declined just enough to make that a 30/70 kick for him. Look at his 2007 percentage (79%), and remember he plays in a dome half the season. Gostkowski made 88% of his kicks this season, and was 3 out of 5 from 40+ (long of 45 yards). Adam attempted two 40+ FG's and one 50+ this season, and went a whopping 0%. That's right, he didn't make a single 40+ yarder this season. In fact, his longest FG of 2007 was just 39 yards.

 

[RayClay]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

He'll be OK. Sending as many kickoffs out of bounds reveals a real lack of concentration and I think BB's sending him a message.

How many times has he done that? That just shouldn't happen especially in a big game.

I still would have kicked the field goal, though.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

Kicker controversy? Why don't we just fire some guy holding a mop?

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

I was doing alot of rationalizing about the decision to go for it on 4th and 13. I think that it was Belichick's decision to have Brady attempt to throw in the endzone in hopes of three things:
1. Moss or Jaffney catching a TD
2. Possible PI call
3. Interception which would have gave the ball to Giants at the 20yrd or even an interception near the goal line which would have served the same as a punt.

Your thoughts?

 

[Satchboogie3]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

I don't understand how people could justify BB not going for a 49 yd FG when it was 4th and 13. People use the fact that Gost missed one in the SD game, but so what? Vinatieri missed plenty of FG in playoffs games, heck he even missed his first 2 attempts in SB XXXVII.

The best chance to get ANY points in that situation is to make a field goal attempt. Honestly, I can't see our chances of converting on a 4th and 13 any higher than say 40% at the MOST.

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

Maybe he thought that the kick was too far or that he did not like the way Ghost kick in pre game. I think going for it was not a bad deal had Brady went for the first down instead of the TD. I also thought that it was a mistake to throw the ball out of the endzone. It would have a been a better decision to throw the ball to anyone near the goal line. Had the Giants intercepted, it would have backed them up deep. It would have been better than a punt. I really think this was BB idea....just throw the ball near the endzone for someone to catch it. I know most of you will say that the Giants would of only needed to swat the ball down but I can assure you under the "heat of the moment" most CB's or safeties would have went for the IT

 

[Satchboogie3]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

If our offense was marching down the field with ease AND we had a big lead, fine, go for it. However, that wasn't the case. Our offense was having trouble getting anything going and we were only up by 4 pts. I just don't see any logical reason to go for it instead of trying to get 3 pts.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

then maybe the team needs to look for another kicker whether its a verteran or a 2008 rookie who the staff can trust in the biggest game of the season.

 

[stcjones]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski should'nt they be looking for a new kicke

It was 50+ yards if I remember correctly.

This was more a vote of confidence in his offense rather than lack of confidence in his kicker. If he flat out didn't trust Gostowski, he would have punted

Nope 47 yrds I believe (or 48?) either way....totally makeable......And yes, for the other poster....it was Gost that shanked a kickoff OOB.....to give it back to the gints at their 40.......He was choking on vomit at that point I am sure....which didn't give BB alot of confidence in him at that point.....Not sure what the offseason brings....

 

[stcjones]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski should'nt they be looking for a new kicke

Actually, he was not great in warmups when I was watching him. He was missing some from the 40 yard line (50 yarders) and missing several from the 45. He hit one from the 45 that had me very concerned -- it was about 20 feet short and about 20 yards wide right, and didn't even ever look like it got higher than the cross bar.

Tynes, by the way, was drilling everything -- including from the 45, and they still had something left.

If that is the case you have to bring in another kicker.......When you are dealing with the playoffs and the SB's....you darned well better have a GOOD, solid kicker to make those clutch one's when you need it......I still miss Adam although I HATE him........But we need another "Adam" type kicker that has steel nuts WHEN IT COUNTS and can be relied upon in the big games........Yeah, Adam missed many times during the season......but other than 2 misses in SB's....He always came through on the BIG kicks when the game was on the line.....I don't think Gost is that kind of kicker......If he was missing 40 yarders like you say multiple times in warmups IN A F**KING DOME.....then he is not our kicker for the future.......

 

[stcjones]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski should'nt they be looking for a new kicke

So maybe it would have been better to punt the ball and try and get a good corner kick inside of the 5 than going for it on a 4th and 13 if a FG was not in the plan?

You ARE Correct sir!!! (OR madam!)

 

[stcjones]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

He'll be OK. Sending as many kickoffs out of bounds reveals a real lack of concentration and I think BB's sending him a message.

How many times has he done that? That just shouldn't happen especially in a big game.

I still would have kicked the field goal, though.

Yeah but you don't want to be in a position as a coach, during a SB, to have to send a MESSAGE To the kicker that "Hey I don't have confidence in you"........Seems to me like we need to bring in some other kickers throughout the entire preseason and let them work it out........

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

True, but a 49 yard FG in a dome is definitely better odds for putting points on the board than going for a 4th and 13.

Ordinarily, I would agree with this. But remember, Bill had probably the most prolific passing game of all time at his disposal. It probably had an effect on his decision. Obviously, he had faith that the O could pick it up.

Credit to the G-Men for stopping it...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

If BB does not trust his kicker to make a very makeable field goal which had a better chance of going though the uprights than Brady completing a 4th and 13 on a play at that time that did not mean the game's fate (a 4th and 13 pass play is a usual longshot no matter who the QB is) then maybe the team needs to look for another kicker whether its a verteran or a 2008 rookie who the staff can trust in the biggest game of the season,I don't want to see gambles like this and its not necessary to roll the dice if you trust in your guy for 3 points,Trusting Gostkowski was obviously not the case and was possibly the difference between going into overtime and losing like the team did.

Or the Pats winning/losing on their ability to stop a 2-point conversion.

But if we're going to play the what if game here, who's to say that the Giants, if the Pats did score a FG, wouldn't have ended up on the Pats' 40 on the next return?

Whatever problems Gostkowski might have, they appear to be mechanical rather than mental (Vandershank) or physical (2007 Vinatieri). I don't see them finding anyone that would qualify as a significant upgrade, especially if they get rid of that hiccup in his KOs.

 

[BostonBullit]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

my thoughts on this, all based on the info I have, which ain't the same as the info BB has:

1) going for it on 4th and 13 with the way the Giants D was performing was like giving up a down. I thought it was a bad call when I saw it and if they had scored a TD I'd still call it a bad call, just a bad call with a good result.

2) if there's one guy on the team BB doesn't really trust yet it's Gostkowski. If there's one dude on the team he trust LESS than Gostkowski it's Hanson.

3) it's possible that Gost injured himself somehow during that kickoff and that's why it went out of bounds, so there was no chance of him making that FG.

4) it's no given that you trot AV out there for that kind of kick considering his performance over the past season.

5) Gost performed VERY WELL in the playoffs last season.

6) on their final possesion the Pats where playing to WIN not to TIE...maybe that's because they didn't want to chance not getting the ball first in OT or maybe that's becasue they wheren't going to bring Gost out for a SB game-tieing FG attempt

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski should'nt they be looking for a new kicke

If he was missing 40 yarders like you say multiple times in warmups .

Just to be clear -- he was missing some from the 40, so 50 yarders. He was making the ones he kicked from the 20 to the 35 (or 30 to 45 yarders) pretty easily.

It's a limited sample. He probably kicked about 20 at most when I was there, and most of them were from close. They don't practice the far away ones that much -- or didn't when I watched. But he missed a couple of those -- one badly. But I also should add that I don't really know what they are trying to do there. For all I know, he may have been practicing different things, like driving one low in case he had to try a 60 or something, and he missed it.

So, I probably shouldn't have come down too harshly on his warmup. He missed a couple and one badly, but he made the others.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

We absolutely need a new punter, and that may have been part of it too. It's not like he's any more adept at placement than distance.

As for Gotti, he's missed some kicks this season when we actually needed them, which could also be why we go for it so much on 4th down inside or around the 30. Couple of occasions I can remember Brady looking positively steamed at his misses in the 30+ range. I think Philly was one. And they usually aren't bad snaps or holds, just bad form where his foot drags and he doesn't hit the sweet spot. That is mental error/lack of focus, and something Bill doesn't cotton to. I think the shank was his second I recall down the stretch too. He was just 3 of 5 over 40 and his longest all season was 45, so that likely factored into the decision.

We didn't give him any camp competition in his second season. He will get some in his third for sure.

 

[PATS_walkitout]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

Let me say this - I think Gostkowski has done well as a replacement to Vinatieri,He has NOT made us forget Adam but have been decent for most of his kicks.

However you have to think that if Vinatieri was on the team BB would have gone for kicking the long 40+ FG without question instead of going for a suicidal 4th and 13 when the Giants were already proving that they were going to play hard and make everything difficult,If NE was destroying the Giants early I could see BB deciding to go for the jugular but this obvious was a case of BB and the staff not trusting that Gostkowski can make a very makeable FG in a dome.

Was it some of Stephens misses in the previous games that made BB decide not to trust his kicker and instead to go for it? or was it a bit of arrogance on BBs part?

If BB does not trust his kicker to make a very makeable field goal which had a better chance of going though the uprights than Brady completing a 4th and 13 on a play at that time that did not mean the game's fate (a 4th and 13 pass play is a usual longshot no matter who the QB is) then maybe the team needs to look for another kicker whether its a verteran or a 2008 rookie who the staff can trust in the biggest game of the season,I don't want to see gambles like this and its not necessary to roll the dice if you trust in your guy for 3 points,Trusting Gostkowski was obviously not the case and was possibly the difference between going into overtime and losing like the team did.

No this was Bill Bellicheck and the Patriots being ****y and underestimating the Giants. If you know you cant make the field goal most other teams would take a five yard delay of game penalty and punt the ball. Dumb coaching call. The Patriots were handed their lunch and it was a desperation play to reestablish their dominance on offense. It didnt work and because of it they suffered.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: If BB does not have faith in Gostkowski shouldn't they be looking for a new kicke

Ordinarily, I would agree with this. But remember, Bill had probably the most prolific passing game of all time at his disposal. It probably had an effect on his decision. Obviously, he had faith that the O could pick it up.

Credit to the G-Men for stopping it...

Your quote makes total sense, but I still think Polian is Satan without the mischevious grin.